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2012 R2R2R Group - Training Log's
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Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Foot care on 02/10/2012 11:54:24 MST Print View

For this adventure, if you are all running regularly it shouldn't be a problem and Craig's solution should work... carrying a little tape. For this type of terrain and weather, I find the Wright Socks to be excellent. Normally I use merino wool socks on most trips though.

On other thing is to be cautious about impact injuries to the foot, especially on the downhills when you are tired and do not have as much control as you do on the uphills. A couple years ago I must have stepped on a sharp rock (note: I was wearing XC flats, which do not have a rock plate), while hiking, not running. I did not feel the impact, but everyone in a while it felt like my insole had split and was pinching my foot. After a couple miles, I took off my shoe and did not see anything and my foot looked okay... no visible injury. I hiked another 4 miles and made night camp. The next morning, the entire ball of my foot was one huge blister. Lancing it did no seem like a good idea. Hiked about 10 miles on mostly snow, then once out of the snow the blister popped on its own. It bother me some for the next 10 miles, and then the last 5 miles was somewhat painful. But I just kept hiking without taking off my shoe to do any first aid. The next morning it had dried out completely, and I just left the dead skin in place. No problem hiking the next day, which was a 6,000 foot descent and then several miles of hot flat walking in 100+ temperature. Anyway, for short trips sometimes it is better to leave things be than do too much first aid.

Long thru hikes are a completely different matter.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Offer for So Cal Runners on 02/10/2012 12:12:00 MST Print View

For those who have not done this kind of elevation loss and gain, the downhills are the brutal part. So you need to do a lot of steep elevation training, going downhill especially. The downhills can be absolutely brutal.

If you would like a severe training run a couple weeks before the trip, I am willing to help with logistics on a Desert Skyline Trail training run in Palm Springs. The trail is 11 miles long, with a 8,000' elevation gain. The last 1,000' you may want to skip. But a 7,000' uphill run and then return might be beneficial. The first 3,000 foot gain will be tough and running back down this section might not be a good idea, but just hiking it will be very beneficial after you have ran up 7,000' and then ran down 4,000'.

The trail will probably be hot after 10 AM, so you want to start around 7 AM or earlier. There is no water. When you get to 7,000' gain, you cannot risk going back down without enough water in your pack. And if you are too tired, you best not try to return, safer to hike up the last 1,000' which is the steepest section, and then take the tram down.

I can hike from the top down, and if anyone is having difficulty, I can bring extra water and lead you up to the tram. This section is not well marked in places, so you would want someone who knows the route to assist. Also, there could be snow and ice on this section, you might need to bring microspikes. Should not be any snow at 7,000' gain mark.

If everyone makes it to 7,000' and feels they can make it back down okay, then I will just hike down to the bottom, that way if anyone has difficulties I can help. I am getting too old to do this kind of a run, but hiking it is not too difficult.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Offer for So Cal Runners on 02/10/2012 12:53:06 MST Print View

Nick- if I was any where near close I'd definitely take you up on the offer :) I've got "hills" to run, wishing I had mountains!


Adan Lopez
(Lopez) - F

Locale: San Gabriel Valley
Skyline on 02/10/2012 14:38:39 MST Print View

That's an amazing offer Nick, thank you very much.

I'll have to see when something like that might work into my training, it definitely wouldnt be anywhere in the 3 weeks before the event. Is that a portion of the same 'cactus to clouds' hike you did with Craig? I need more time in the San Jacintos! I would be interested in doing that even after the GC. Especially now that I'm much more confident in my abilities.

I'm thinking that after the GC I'll be in the best shape of my life (hopefully) so what better time to see much of our local wilderness, right? I'm excited, I've seen so many new trails and mountains in just the past few months, I'm just going to keep going and see it all!

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Skyline on 02/10/2012 15:00:37 MST Print View


Yes it is the first part of the C2C, but it is all desert.

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Lesson Learned - Training to Rest on 02/12/2012 15:13:23 MST Print View

I had a "character building" run today. It wasn't that tough on paper, only 16.5 miles with 2700' elevation gain. But I didn't allow enough recovery from my two hill repeat runs during the week, less than 48 hours from the one on Friday. So I experienced about 6 miles of completely spent legs. It stinks when your head tells your legs to move and they just laugh. The problem was also compounded by the fact that I did a pretty good weight workout yesterday, so my upper body wasn't much help. So I am starting to believe that the optimal training plan is not to focus on the runs but rather to focus on the rest. So if I could have taken an additional full day off then I could have pushed myself harder on the run and finished another 5.5 mile lap which I think would have resulted in a better overall training experience.

But who knows, I may discover that running on tired legs is the best thing since Maltodextrin and unlearn the lesson of today. That is the great thing about endurance training, it's still as much art as science!

So, what do you all think? Train to rest or run on tired legs, which is better?

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
rest on 02/12/2012 15:26:25 MST Print View

Greg- I'll defer to someone more knowledgeable than me :)

I will say that I'm going to skip my Thursday run next week to give me two days of rest for my long run on Saturday, my Thursday run wasn't that great (3 miles that felt like 5) and on my long run my legs felt tired, that'll surely mean less miles in a week, but thinking my long run will go better (if doesn't I'll rethink this strategy)

btw got my longest run of my "career" 12 miles in on Saturday! :)


Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
We tried. on 02/12/2012 17:30:49 MST Print View

Adan and I had quite the epic yesterday.
The plan was to hike/run the entire Gabrielino Trail and out to my house, a trip of roughly 31 miles.
The day started well enough, miles rolled by, we felt good. By about 9 miles the weather started to turn; neither of us were expecting rain and didn't have anything but windshirts and trash bags. In addition, due to recent fires and winds, the trail started to really deteriorate. We ended up taking a 4-5 mile detour with a good deal of climbing because we couldn't find it. Backtracking, we found ourselves glissading a 100', steep dirt slope to get back on course. Then the rain started. We had windshirts but figured they should be kept dry for later, just in case. So wearing trashbags as shirts, we went another 5 miles in the rain. At this point we reached the "halfway" point, but instead of 15 miles, we had covered 20. Soaked and getting cold, it would be dark in another hour...we thought the worst was behind us.
At roughly 26 miles in, the trail that would lead us out to my house was marked with a closed sign. Due to the damage we saw everywhere, we figured it was in bad shape. Not wanting to risk eroded trails on high cliffs in the dark (an initial concern I had about parts of this route), we decided to take another canyon that would lead us to a pass, down another canyon, and home.
I knew it was a fairly rough canyon, but had no idea it would be as bad as it was. 50' trees were down in sections, the entire canyon was virtually without trail, we were getting soaked by vegetation and stream crossings...pretty epic bushwhack conditions at times, route finding was a nightmare.
It soon became apparent we were on a fool's errand trying to get to the pass this way. Given the blow downs and wildness of the canyon, we could walk right passed it in the dark. And that was assuming that the pass was even climbable in these conditions...let alone what could be waiting on the other side.
Screwed. Fortunately, the rain had stopped for the night.
So we backtracked another 3-4 miles back to a campground and hiked out the road, hoping to get cell service, hitch a ride, or knock on the door of a fire station to use the phone. At this point we were hiking/running almost 13 hours.
Fortunately we quickly hitched a ride out, the guy was even kind enough to drop us off at my house.
Overall the trip was 30 miles and ~9600' of gain.
I'm sure Adan could add some better commentary. Not too many pics, my camera died pretty quick.





Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
The Weekend on 02/12/2012 17:55:47 MST Print View

Sounds like you and Adan had a trip to remember. It's funny, on most of my long day hikes/runs I have had full gear to spend the night out in the wild. I have never needed to but someday I know it will come.

Great job on record breaking run!

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Lesson Learned - Training to Rest on 02/12/2012 18:00:38 MST Print View


How many days a week are you running?

If you are running 5, 6, or 7 days a week, then the day after a big distance or particularly physical run, you might want to do a "recovery run" the next day. This run is generally at a very easy pace on easy terrain. You will get tired, but the purpose is to improve your overall fitness. If you are only running 3 days a week, then rest days are important.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: We tried. on 02/12/2012 18:01:59 MST Print View

Sounds more than a training run -- an adventure. Good for you guys! Now you have something neat to talk about for a long time.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
trip on 02/12/2012 20:13:31 MST Print View

good story, but that doesn't sound too awfully fun to me

I tend to prefer the "good" epic trips :)

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
"2012 R2R2R Group - Training Log's" on 02/12/2012 20:48:21 MST Print View

Good week all around fella's!

@Mike, congrats on your personal best, that has to be a really good feeling- keep at it man!

@ Greg,

You raise a good question! I think I lean towards running on tired legs over training to rest, at least for ultra distance stuff. Running 6 days a week doesn't leave much time for static recovery days, so at some point(s) during the week running on tired and slightly fatigued legs is going to happen and becomes a normal part of a training cycle. I'm currently managing 5 days a week running, but would prefer it be 6, which seems to work best for me.

@Craig and Adan,

Nuts man! One of many positive things to take from your run is that you both got in some serious time on your feet. The expressions on both of your faces says it all.

Edited by Eugeneius on 02/12/2012 20:49:52 MST.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
a few photos from the afternoon. on 02/12/2012 21:16:50 MST Print View

Good week.

A few photos that I managed to take this afternoon.





mist 2

Brendan S
(brendans) - MLife

Locale: Fruita CO
Re: "2012 R2R2R Group - Training Log's" on 02/12/2012 21:28:13 MST Print View

Just want to say what a joy this thread has been to read. I can't quite put my finger on it, but has all the fixins of a great trip report but it's a months-long trip and the reporting is ongoing and coming from different people, different places, different personalities, different experience levels.

Keep up the good work; I'm bummed it didn't work out to join y'all.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: "2012 R2R2R Group - Training Log's" on 02/12/2012 22:47:14 MST Print View

Great photos again as usual guys.

Edited by asandh on 02/13/2012 20:49:46 MST.

Adan Lopez
(Lopez) - F

Locale: San Gabriel Valley
The long day on 02/13/2012 00:00:16 MST Print View

As Craig likes to say, Saturday was like fun, only different. After a few hours of scrambling over downed trees and "post holing" in the creek in the dark, we realized that there was no way home. Every layer i had was wet. We already did 25 miles and 12 hours of work, and now we were thrashing around a good while trying to find anything resembling a trail that would take us out, and suddenly it felt like our trip was really just about to begin.

I've had a few trips now where my nerves have been tried. Each time I find it immensely rewarding. Looking back, about the only thing we did wrong was to plan a "training" run over 30 miles of remote trail that had recently undergone a lot of change and for which nobody could provide first hand knowledge of conditions. Great choice for an adventure, not so much for a training run.

Lessons learned:

You can go much longer than you think.
No matter how soggy, pruned or blistered...Just wipe your feet well and Leukotape will stay put.
Take extra gels for the epic you didn't know was coming.
Map and compass can help, but patience and methodical route finding skills is necessary, especially in steep canyons.
We miss out on a lot of adventures because we plan too much.
The reason you carry that fire steel is so you can still laugh when you get stuck out there.
On "fun" trips, take Craig.

Hey Craig, next week lets go do that 7'000 ft climb of Mt Baldy, I'm in the mood for something easy!

torrey saylor
(everyday) - F

Locale: south rim
R2R2R Training log ..sorta on 02/17/2012 17:54:18 MST Print View

dang, you guys are all organized an' keepin a record of your miles! Cool. Um , I just run as much as I can for an hour or 2 or 3 a day, like 6 to 30 miles depending on how much time I have. Anywhere from 24 to 50 miles a week I guess. As the days get longer I run more, In the snow I run less but its harder. so, uh, yea, thats what I do. I just like running, Its fun :) I never go to a gym or anything, I have a Kettlebell and do swings n stuff like 20 mins a day, when I remember, and flutter-kicks, which are harder than they sound! Mostly I just like running, I liked when i was unemployed cause I could run all day out in the desert, and the santa rosas and san Jacinto by Palm Springs. but now I work full time so I cant. But at least my work is at another good running place! Im rambling, ha. But 24-50 a week is pretty accurate, all on trails.

Oh and I rock climb too, that counts as cross training yes? ha

@ NICK--yea! I lived right there in Palm Springs until I got the job out here last summer (2011) and have done the skyline numerous times! Its a perfect GC training ground!

Edited by everyday on 02/17/2012 19:13:28 MST.

Adan Lopez
(Lopez) - F

Locale: San Gabriel Valley
Good week on 02/18/2012 01:32:13 MST Print View

Sounds like a positive upswing on the reporting lately!!! Nice.

@mike, congrats on the 12er! Those first double digits are exciting, some real inspiring Stuff going on in this thread for me.
@Brendan, I totally had forgotten that other folks are folowing this. Good to hear that others are getting as much out of this as I am. Even before I decided to join, I found this thread inspiring me to push harder out there.
@Greg, since I started running my kit consists of only the minimal Mylar blanket, fire starter, etc and I gotta say even that night with everything wet and no change of clothes, I felt completely comfortable about staying out. But then I was in good company too. The only concern we had was worrying our families. from the stuff you've done, I'm sure youre got a darn good comfort level out there yourself.
@eugene, sweet foto-grafy, you are the master cameragician.
@Torrey, that's cool you can just run for the feel. I was doing the same, though at much lower mileage, until I got on this trip. This will be the biggest thing I've ever gotten into and the logs have really helped me keep things real and see my goals more clearly. I generally dislike numbers and regiments creeping into my time outside but this has been fun.

My training is shaping up nicely, starting to feel like a 40 mile week is a good base for me now, which is exciting progress. run well friends.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
"2012 R2R2R Group - Training Log's" on 02/19/2012 10:34:28 MST Print View

This was sort of an off week on my end wrapping up final preparations for the 2012 Sierra Vista Trail Runs which was extremely successful! On Saturday we had ~70 runners and 25+ volunteers gather on a chilly morning out in the desert to run distances ranging from the 5 mile, 1/2 marathon, and the full marathon. For a free event, this was pretty badas$. There were a few snafus with the communication and bib system but other than that the race was a complete joy to put together and work. A dude from Milwaukee, WI won the marathon with a time of 3:35, which may not sound fast, but on this stretch of trail is incredible. Putting races on is equally as fun as running them.

A few of my favorite photos from the race. I may be putting this event on next year, not sure the participants from this year will have it any other way.

Kane Baker "Marathon Maniac", winner of the marathon, 3:35:00...flew in from Milwaukee, arrived at midnight, ran, won, then went on to fly back to Maryland to run another marathon on Sunday. I don't get guys like him.

Runners heading due south along the Sierra Vista Trail towards El Paso, TX.

Jim Breyfogle, race director for the Deadman Peak 50 and Cedro Peak 45, and ultramarathon maniac.

Dan Carter, aka "Salty Dog", doing his best to be the creepiest dirt bagging race co-director possible.

Dan Hewins, who's joining us at the R2R2R in April, signing in runners.

My father in law, Marty Miera, crossing the finish line in 5:02, a personal best for him on a really tough course.

Edited by Eugeneius on 02/19/2012 10:41:18 MST.