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Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Houston, we have a problem! on 01/26/2012 07:53:35 MST Print View

Greg- hope you heal up quickly! when you're ready to give it a go, consider taping (see my earlier posts) I really feel that it helped get me out there a little quicker and reduced the risk of re-injury

funny (I think :)) but I've never owned a ipod/walkman/other carry music device, my wife though has an ipod and wouldn't consider leaving the house to workout w/o it

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Re: Houston, we have a problem! on 01/26/2012 10:49:28 MST Print View

Have any of you neglected to offer up sufficient sacrifice to the running gods? We're a bit cursed as of late. Be safe out there.

Sorry to hear you tweaked your ankle Greg, lick your wound and rest up. How did it feel today? Any better?

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Healing Up on 01/26/2012 15:25:32 MST Print View

As hard as it was, I sat all evening with the leg elevated and an ice pack on. Woke up this morning and the swelling is WAY down and I can walk pain free. I can't believe how good it feels considering how bad it looked less than twelve hours earlier. I am taking it easy today and then I fly back to Atlanta tomorrow so I will not be running for two straight days. Also, instead of a long run this weekend I will try to do a couple of shorter runs to test it out. So good news, I expect to be back in full training mode soon.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Healing Up on 01/26/2012 15:56:01 MST Print View

"So good news, I expect to be back in full training mode soon."

Greg,

It would be wise to tape it for a few weeks, until it is fully healed. If you go over on it again right away, you're going to be in a world of hurt, possibly with permanent damage.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: Healing Up on 01/26/2012 16:28:31 MST Print View

^ I'd agree w/ this, I felt it really helped

Philip Delvoie
(PhilipD) - MLife

Locale: Ontario, Canada
re: That P.M.A. on 01/27/2012 10:15:27 MST Print View

Devon,
Check out a song called Brains by Lower Dens. May not be your style, but it has a pretty insistent beat....may keep those legs turning over.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Final Numbers (Who's In?) on 01/27/2012 11:23:57 MST Print View

I'm going to need to get a realistic headcount soon so that I can get going on making the commemorative R2R2R beer steins for everyone that shows up. I'm pretty backed up on ceramic work/projects right now and kiln space is always limited...I need to start as soon as possible to make sure I have time to finish everything.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Final Numbers (Who's In?) on 01/27/2012 12:11:44 MST Print View

I will be coming with 2 other RRR guys and 1 support guy (R river R).

Edited by asandh on 02/13/2012 20:46:56 MST.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
head count on 01/27/2012 12:17:54 MST Print View

I'll take a stab at the list:

I
Dan Hewins
Martin Miera
Adan Lopez
Greg Gressel
Mike Moore
Art Messier +3
David Thomas
Devon Growler
Brian Blair (tentative)
Rob Lee
Brad Smyth (tentative)
Eric Payne (tentative)
George Matthews

Custom R2R2R beer steins? Yeah buddy!

Edited by Eugeneius on 01/27/2012 12:22:40 MST.

ben wood
(benwood)

Locale: flatlands of MO
Re: Final Numbers (Who's In?) on 01/27/2012 13:19:27 MST Print View

dangit craig!

now i really wish i was going. i'm guessing an epic fail doesn't earn a beer stein?

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
fueling on 01/28/2012 12:36:32 MST Print View

What have you guys been fueling with on your longer/harder runs? Have you given serious thought into what you will be fueling with on April 14th? what does your recovery food consist of during the week?

Ill likely be sticking to water, HEED in one bottle, Perpetuem solids, gels, maybe a few clif bloks, and a couple bars in my hydration pack for the run. Nothing heavy, but something solid to sit in my gut when needed. Also consider electrolyte supplementation, for me I will stick to a strict 2 Endurolytes on the hour. I don't run with a watch anymore, but I am considering picking up a cheapo to set a timer to remind me to stay on my calories/hydration cause I tend to allow considerable time to pass between fuelings.

For my training runs I have been running on just water and a gel or two if out for over an hour. How about you fellas?

I know Craig runs on tortillas and chia seed.

Edited by Eugeneius on 01/28/2012 12:50:35 MST.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: fueling on 01/28/2012 13:18:18 MST Print View

this is an area I don't know much about, but my tentative plan is to have one bottle of water and one mixed w/ gatorade, switching between the two

I'm going to order up some gels and give them a go, I'll also carry some cliff/mojo bars and I'm going to pack a peanut butter/jelly sandwich :)

I was thinking about throwing in a banana and maybe a peeled orange, maybe a Snickers bar too

I'll be curious what everyone else's take is on this

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: fueling on 01/28/2012 13:18:36 MST Print View

I've actually begun to switch away from the tortilla and chia seed to a much simpler diet of straight corn liquor.

________________________________________________________________


I actually haven't been eating and drinking much on recent long runs, but then again, nothing has really been too far beyond 4 hours lately. Last longer run I did I ate one balance bar and drank two 24oz. bottles over 16 miles.

The other night I ran 10 miles with 1000' and carried zero food or water.

I've been OK as of late going pretty minimal. I'll be running 20 miles with about 5000' tomorrow; will carry 3-24oz. bottles and probably eat two bars.

That said, as I start to run longer (and on R2R2R day) I'll likely just do bars and potato chips for calories (and salt) combined with straight water. I've never really tried perpetuem, etc. and don't think I should go mixing it up now. On every marathon to 50K race I've done in the past I always gravitate to just eating bars and chips or pretzels at all the stations, so that's what I'll carry- same thing I eat when doing hard backpacking/long days. Maybe throw in some salty nuts.

I'm not so fast that I have to worry about eating chips vs. the convenience of gels. Overall, walking while eating chips won't change my pace much because I'll be mixing in walk breaks anyway.

I might throw in a Salt Stick tablet every hour or two for good measure.

__________________________________________________________________________



Adan has some great eating strategies; ask him about raw hot dogs and tortillas, carried in his pocket no less.

Edited by xnomanx on 01/28/2012 13:28:10 MST.

Adan Lopez
(Lopez) - F

Locale: San Gabriel Valley
Weiners!!! on 01/28/2012 14:00:31 MST Print View

Weiners for sure! For this though I'll step up to the ones stuffed with nacho cheese and I'll wrap em in lard soaked tortillas. Hehe.

Serious though this is where I'll need some pointers. I'm thinking maybe I'll combine supplements with food? One at a time of course. :) I'm going to start experimenting with this next week. I've never heard of most of the stuff Eugene mentioned. I like the idea of eating high power snacks and supplementing with gels or whatever. I used to make little potato-chorizo-corn burritos for long hard days back in my fireproofing days.

Anybody have a link for info on which snack foods or supplements are best? I need to learn about recovery ideas too.

Craig, let me know how many hot dogs you want for tomorrow. I know they're your fav!

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Fueling on 01/28/2012 14:22:11 MST Print View

Plan at this point subject to change as I try it out on longer training runs:
1) 300 calories per hour. Alternate between an hour of Maltodextrin and other junk foods.
2) Maltodextrin wil be mixed up triple strength, 900 calories in a 1l bottle. It also has electrolytes mixed in it.
3) For non Malto hours I will also be taking electrolyte capsules.
4) junk food will be mix of sweet and salty. Chips, candy bars etc.
5) Will target a bit less than 1l water per hour. Will do same strategy as my thru hike, liter at water source and come in a liter short at next stop. May revise this after looking at water points and determining a target pace per section.

This is identical to my strategy on my thru hike except that I will do more Malto. Still trying to learn how to eat on the run.

PS - Injury Update
Here is a nice photo of the outside of my foot today. It is feeling much better even after an hour on the elliptical. Can't wait to get back to running, I'm becoming an addict.

Blue Foot

Edited by gg-man on 01/28/2012 15:33:23 MST.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
fueling for R2R2R on 01/28/2012 15:06:38 MST Print View

Adan,

Simple carbohydrates are going to be your best fuel source (gels, candy, pretzels, chips, various bars, etc.), the key is finding what works well for you while running/hiking strenuously all day. Gels aren't necessary really, they just make getting in those carbohydrates convenient and metered out (typically in 100 calories per gel pack servings), they often contain amino acids which aid in the recovery of muscles. I find tearing the top of a gel off and sucking it down with a little water easier than fumbling around with a ziploc bag and various other carbohydrates while running. Breathing, chewing food, and running can be tricky. I like taking in a small amount of protein in addition to my carbohydrate intake, it takes the edge off of having sugars in my gut all day and helps keep me from feeling like I have a solid mass of jello up front.

We can only digest so many calories an hour, overdoing it on the caloric intake while exercising can wreak havoc on your muscles, due to blood being diverted to aid in stomach digestion. Factor in heat, digestion, high exertion, and you get a tricky situation that requires a little forethought. It all about finding a balance on these long runs, one in which I'm still trying to figure out and have messed up on in the past...but I'm learning.

Of course all this is dependent on the individuals metabolism, level of fitness, and rate of exertion. If you plan to get after it and push it for the duration of the double crossing then eating solid foods may not be as feasible or practical, gels and quickly absorbed carbohydrates will be better. Powerhiking/walking is less intense and lends itself to eating more solid foods without any ill effects usually. If you think you'll be on your feet for 14-16hrs. then gels and candy isn't going to cut it.

As far as getting in electrolytes, like Craig mentioned, salty foods (chips and pretzels) help provide a portion of your electrolyte needs (sodium and potassium), but not the complete electrolyte requirements. S-Caps and Endurolytes are two options that do provide a more complete electrolyte replacement. I've had seriously nasty cramps in the past and have had them subside, barely, after taking in Endurolytes. Hammer HEED, Accelerade, Gatorade, Powerade, etc. are all options for getting in some sodium and carbs, but they're not all created equally, see what works for you.

I'm curious what others will be using as well. Hopefully Art will chime in on this, he has a lot of experience here.


_______________________________________

@Craig,

No mezcal and peyote trips? You could do a quadruple crossing and be back home by Sunday.

Edited by Eugeneius on 01/28/2012 15:10:01 MST.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
R2R2R on 01/28/2012 15:34:06 MST Print View

...

Edited by asandh on 02/13/2012 21:00:35 MST.

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Re: Weiners!!! on 01/28/2012 16:03:46 MST Print View

Adan,
I tried a bunch of different combinations trying to nail down a food plan for my thru hike. Bottom line, whatever you take make sure you can eat it. A good example of this is Perpetuem. I found that I couldn't drink that consistantly due to the taste. I made up an almost exact nutritional equivalent flavored with crystal light. On the other hand I have done very long 30+ mile fast hikes (run down hills) eating pringles and chocolate covered donuts and that was easy and effective. So I focus more on what I can eat rather than a perfect nutritional formulation.

Here are the general guidelines that I used for my hike. Some would apply for a single long day but this was intended more for day after day of long days.
1) Start the day with carbs. If its loaded with simple surgars than meter it in slower. Whenever possible I tried to stay with more complex carbs to avoid blood suger spikes prior to the start of high calorie burn.
2) I would try to get some protein in during the day though that would come from the foods I ate vs. protein powder etc. Foods like snickers or peanut butter would work well for me. Also, I took nuts as some of my hourly 300 calorie packs. When possible I would eat those more on the downhill sections to save the higher carbs for the uphills.
3) For foods loaded with simple sugars I smetimes metered them in over the hour, example; an Oreo every ten minutes. This may have been overkill.
4) End of the day protein. I think this was critical to recovery especially for multiday events. Also, hyhydration and carb replacement helped as well. I also took glutamine, don't know if I could swear by it but the whole combination worked for me.

Based on these guidelines I would not do the weiner routine. It is too low in carbs and too high in protein. A few as a protein source could work.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: fueling for R2R2R on 01/28/2012 16:59:41 MST Print View

Eugene said:"If you plan to get after it and push it for the duration of the double crossing then eating solid foods may not be as feasible or practical, gels and quickly absorbed carbohydrates will be better. Powerhiking/walking is less intense and lends itself to eating more solid foods without any ill effects usually. If you think you'll be on your feet for 14-16hrs. then gels and candy isn't going to cut it."

This matches my experience on long dayhikes (40-50 miles, 5,000-15,000' up+down). I bring normal, grocery-store foods. A few sub sandwhiches, cookies, dried fruit. I figure my gut and its residents are set up best for my around-town diet. I move a bit towards carbs (more cookies) and salt (beef jerky and a few snack/junk foods). I think having a variety of foods with a variety of digestion times (such as in a sandwhich - bread, meat, cheese) avoids some of the potential to bonk suddenly.

I go a little fancier (Pepperidge Farms cookies, black-forest ham, etc) than I would around town both as a treat and an incentive to eat enough. I go for "finger foods" - things like I can eat as I walk. I find it a mental plus to consider how many miles I got just while eating my lunch.

I look at labels and add up calories. For R2R2R, I figure about 6000 calories on top of a basal rate of 2,500. So I'll aim to have 8,000 or so with me. This is more vertical than most of my long hikes - usually I'm at 6,500-7,000 calories on the day of a big hike.

It's helpful for me to hear suggestions from runners as I'm planning/hoping to manage some jogging down the trail. It sounds like I should shift a bit towards goo and gels. Any thoughts on cold-turkey, adding some gel on hike day? Or should I ramp up in the week prior?

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: fueling for R2R2R on 01/28/2012 17:03:56 MST Print View

Dave
whatever foods you decide to use on RRR day, its probably best that you test it out before hand to see how your body and mind will react to it.

you don't absolutely need gels, whatever works for you.

Edited by asandh on 02/13/2012 20:57:39 MST.