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Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
doing well on 01/09/2012 09:43:23 MST Print View

@ Art,

I know Eric through correspondence from a year or two back, we keep in touch through email and such, much like I have with Craig for a while now. I followed Eric on his GET thru last year as well, he can cover some distance.

Btw, had some friends over last night and watched "Unbreakable" the WS100 documentary that just came out, they managed to capture some of the tension in that race as well as give equal backstory to the top guys that year. The editing is pretty bad at times and there's some serious filler conversation filmed that probably seemed more interestin at thethe time ofoff shooting . It is still inspiring to watch them run so hard for 100 miles and truly race at that distance.

You 100 runners blow my mind.

Focused on all vertical this past week, mileage hasn't been a concern, just time and ascent. Finally bagged a summit I've been eyeing for over a year yesterday afternoon, got in a good 2500' of vert before being blown down by a low front
. I'll be running this route once a week.

b s
(smyth) - F
Re: Interesting Week on 01/09/2012 11:14:48 MST Print View

That's an impressive treadmill workout Greg. When I've been forced to use the gym during the week, I've been alternating similar speeds at 3-4% and 14% grades and find myself wiped after 60-70 minutes. Thanks for laying out the simulation of the north face of the canyon. Will be something to keep in mind if winter ever really hits and I'm forced indoors for an extended period.

Got some encouragement from a guy at my local trail on Saturday. He was heading to the HURT 100 in Oahu next week and finished WS100 last year and does all his training right here outside of Philly. Proof that what Dan said was true. Great to see in the flesh though.

Hope you guys don't mind that I jumped into the party late. I still can't commit but this has kept me motivated and on the trails at a time when I'd usually be in winter hibernation mode.

Brad

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: Re: Interesting Week on 01/09/2012 11:33:58 MST Print View

>"you're either an exceptional athlete or your treadmill is a bit off.
those sustained speeds at those inclines are very fast."

Those could both be true :-)

I've never found a treadmill that simulated the slope it claimed. The treadmill moved at the reported speed, yes. And the "slope" was probably at the reported angle. But on the trail, I'm actually moving my body uphil. At the gym, most of body stays at the same elevation, so mostly I'm lifting my legs somewhat more when the treadmill is set for steeper hills.

And I HATE how hot most exercise rooms are (in hotels, I don't belong to a gym). Years ago, I gave up on the exercise room and I go to the stairwell - all hotels have them. Often they're cooler and I have it to myself. I put on some tunes or podcasts and pace myself at about 2,500 feet/hour (total up+down). Actual vertical feet in which I lifted (and lowered) my 180 pounds against gravity.

And especially for GCNP, going downstairs is really good prep. Since I've including stair work in my prep (sometimes my only prep), I haven't hurt from a SK-River-SK or BA-River-BA.

I'm talking hiking only. What works for you runners to prep for the downhill? I've got one-story stairs at home and 4 flights at the beach at 0F. But actual hills are an hour away and covered with snow.

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Treadmill Mechanics on 01/09/2012 17:52:25 MST Print View

"you're either an exceptional athlete or your treadmill is a bit off.
those sustained speeds at those inclines are very fast."

Art,
Please let it it be the first!!!! :) The incline could be off a degree or two either direction, I'm sure it has never been leveled at the gym. I do a lot of incline high speed walking on treadmills and noticed nothing out the ordinary with respect to either speed or incline.


"I've never found a treadmill that simulated the slope it claimed. The treadmill moved at the reported speed, yes. And the "slope" was probably at the reported angle. But on the trail, I'm actually moving my body uphil. At the gym, most of body stays at the same elevation, so mostly I'm lifting my legs somewhat more when the treadmill is set for steeper hills.

David,
In the range that I was going (5-14%) the angle and the % grade would be almost identical. I also spent most of the three hours while on the machine trying to determine if the motion of the treadmill was the same as walking up a perfectly smooth hill. Initially, I thought as you, the body isn't moving therefore the treadmill was easier. But then I took the example to the extreme, a perfectly 90 degree incline. It then becomes obvious that the mechanics are the same. But I do know that treadmills are easier in two respects; smoother surface and altitude. Can’t do anything about the surface which is why I asked about altitude adjustment.

I will be able to get a pretty good idea of the relative difficulty of treadmill vs. trail on my next AT run. I will find a couple of sections that have an equilivent gain to the two training sections. I will have a full report!

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: Treadmill Mechanics on 01/09/2012 19:33:36 MST Print View

>"In the range that I was going (5-14%) the angle and the % grade would be almost identical. I also spent most of the three hours while on the machine trying to determine if the motion of the treadmill was the same as walking up a perfectly smooth hill. Initially, I thought as you, the body isn't moving therefore the treadmill was easier. But then I took the example to the extreme, a perfectly 90 degree incline. It then becomes obvious that the mechanics are the same. But I do know that treadmills are easier in two respects; smoother surface and altitude. Can’t do anything about the surface which is why I asked about altitude adjustment."

Greg, I agree slope and angle are essentially the same at low angles.

And that the range of motion your legs go through is the same.

But I can walk 4.25 mph up a "14%" slope on a treadmill all day long and it does not feel like 4.25 mph up 740 vertical feet per mile on good trail.

Being on the treadmill is absolutley better than not being on the treadmill. I don't think it's as good or as much of a workout as being on an actual hilly trail, but we all work with what we have. I'm quite limited, at sea level, on the flats, in a small town, at -18F this morning, simulating a R2R2R hike, and actual stairs are part of what I can do to get in shape.

But my biggest message to newbies is: get some downhill work in. It's the lack of downhill conditioning that has left me hurting in the distant past. Then I turned 45 and got smart.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
"2012 R2R2R Group - Training Log's" on 01/09/2012 23:04:18 MST Print View

Don't be fooled by the split shorts and shirt, that dark mass behind me brought some wind blown snow and sleet... gotta love January in NM, sunny blue bird skys one second and Armageddonesque lows the next.

SUMMIT

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
NM weather on 01/10/2012 07:20:53 MST Print View

nice pic! we've been warm, but not quite shorts warm

ps your training log needs updating :)

Mike

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
"2012 R2R2R Group - Training Log's" on 01/10/2012 22:30:51 MST Print View

I'm getting on it now Mike.

How is it up there in MT? I know CO is hurting badly for any snowfall; bare 14'ers in mid January is not a good sign. This could be a ravenous fire season come spring for the mountain west.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: "2012 R2R2R Group - Training Log's" on 01/11/2012 07:54:18 MST Print View

Eugene- we're not as bad off as Colorado, but were certainly hurting in some areas for snow pack, just last week they were battling a very large blaze on the east front- that is simply unheard of

the weather is going to be taking a turn early next week w/ much cooler temps and more chances for precip- I don't mind the precip, but not looking forward to the cooler temps :)

Mike

as a side not went into the gym and am still having issues w/ my shoulder- tried to flat bench and it was a no go- not pain, but like the nerves in the shoulder aren't firing- weird, really weird- other exercises (ones that don't involve the shoulder much) seem to be fine- hoping this gets turned around less people mistake me for a real runner (which I'm a long ways of being!) :)

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
2012 R2R2R Group - Training Logs on 01/14/2012 20:50:28 MST Print View

Ran Mt. San Antonio (10,064') with Adan this morning; here's a shot of him ahead of me, climbing the Devil's Backbone. We ran a 13 mile, 4000' gain summit loop. Good times.
Beautiful mountain, a good dose of thin air, frozen fingers at the summit, all just above the masses of Los Angeles. We were first on the summit today.

1

Tony Krupicka and Jorge Pacheco were on the summit a month ago...
http://antonkrupicka.blogspot.com/2011/12/week-summary-dec-12-18.html
.......I'm guessing Adan and I were faster :)

Or not. They ran the whole loop in the same time it took us to summit. (2:23 RT vs. 3:26 RT)

(quite a difference in weather over one month if you compare his photos with mine; most all snow/ice is gone except for north faces)

Edited by xnomanx on 01/14/2012 21:10:01 MST.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
"2012 R2R2R Group - Training Log's" on 01/14/2012 23:51:25 MST Print View

That looks like a sweet section of trail Craig- great run fellas.

Adan is getting strong, get him on board for April.

I'm loving the photos btw, its cool to see where you guys are getting your miles.

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
2012 R2R2R Group - Training Log's on 01/15/2012 12:06:46 MST Print View

"I'm loving the photos btw, its cool to see where you guys are getting your miles."

Do to a Krupicka type shin injury I'm forced into alternative forms of conditioning. My focus has shifted to spinning indoors and hiking with my dogs. Here are a few pictures of where I'm getting my non running miles. :(

Pro400

Above is a picture of my CycleOps P400. My morning split today was 1.5 hours at 215 watts covering just under 36 miles. I rode using a five CD mix of Metallica, good music to match my dark mode (I would much prefer to be running). I will put in a 1 hour split this afternoon and a hike with the dogs.

I'm fortunate to have open areas for hiking with my dogs directly off the back of our property. Here is a picture of the climb directly behind the house, a 2,000'+ gain to the fire lookout at the top.

Hogsback

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
training & shin injury on 01/15/2012 14:58:25 MST Print View

Craig- great pic- 4000' is great, don't have anything like that close by unfortunately

Thom- hope your recovery is speedy, at least you can exercise that's a big plus :)

I wish I had a 2000' gain near my backyard- that would be great training for the R2R2R

looks like our weather is going to take a very nasty turn starting tomorrow, the coming snow is fine, the dam(n) frigid temps aren't-
guessing at least part of my "runs" will be on the stairmaster

my neck/shoulder impingement is still recovering, much more effected in the gym lifting, than running (starting to get skinny- well skinny for me anyways :))

Mike

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
No injuries for me on 01/15/2012 16:15:23 MST Print View

but then, I haven't done any running. Just snowshoeing, X-C skiing, up & down the stairs and some stationary biking.

I've dropped about 7 pounds. Dropping another 8-10 would be ideal.

Nothing yesterday, -28F is below the bottom of my fun meter, but -16F this morning has warmed to -4F, so it's back on the X-C skiis.

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
I was weak! on 01/15/2012 17:15:40 MST Print View

I had two great workouts this week, both 7.2 miles straight up and down Kennesaw Mtn near where I work. So the stage was set for an epic run this weekend up on the AT. So I packed everything up last night, set out my gear and set the alarm for 6am. But weakness hit! The alarm went off at 6, I got up, talked myself out of going and went back to sleep. But the story doesn't end there thanks to Craig and his post above.

When I got up, I saw there was a new post on the R2R2R Training thread. Then I read Craigs post and it really torqued me off. Here others were doing very cool runs this weekend and here I sat. So, despite being about 8am, I headed off for the hour and a half drive to the start of the AT Approach Trail. The late start was a blessing in disguise because I knew I had to move pretty quick to get the run in before dark. I ended up doing 32 in an hour and forty minutes faster than I did a year ago on my first 2011 PCT training hike. The workouts the last few weeks have paid off.

Thank you Craig for giving me the kick in the butt to get off of my butt. But I'm still not happy that I didn't have it in me to do it on my own. Now I just have to be able to walk tomorrow. I have to fly to CA for a week and a half. Now where to hike next weekend, snowless Sierra, Death Valley, Big Sur?

Here's my picture from the Southern Terminus of the AT. Not nearly as cool as Craig's location!

Springer Mtn

Edited by gg-man on 01/15/2012 18:23:57 MST.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: No injuries for me on 01/15/2012 18:21:05 MST Print View

Here's a photo of the snowshoe/ski trails around our property. That's my wife with axe, I have the chainsaw to clear blown-down trees.

Gardening in Alaska

You guys are going to be so ready for hills, heat, and thin air. I, on the other hand, am not going to be phased by cold temps or snow near the rims.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
I was weak! (and random thoughts on walking fast). on 01/15/2012 21:13:14 MST Print View

If "weak" is running a 50K in ~7 hours, I want to be weak too!
Nice job Greg.

My next step is making time to start getting some big training runs in too. Next on my list is crossing Joshua Tree (~38 miles) on the CRHT. As a training run I likely won't actually run the whole thing (will likely fast hike 50% of it), but will do it mainly just to get in nonstop time on the feet.
___________________________________________

I did something different tonight. Feeling tired, but wanting to stick to my goal of running everyday in 2012 (1 mile per day minimum), I went out for a quick mile on the streets...but I walked fast instead. I did it out of curiosity; I haven't timed a walking mile in....ever?
I clocked a blazing 12:15. Any faster and I'd have had to get the race walking hips and arm pumping going...which I don't really know how to do.

(Which leads to my other goal of starting a punk-rock long distance race walking team. But that's another story.)

Anyhow, I never breathed hard. Coming from running, I feel like I could do this all day. Could I?
So say I slow down to walking a 13:00/mile. Where would that put my time on a 50K?
Holy crap, I says...that's about 6:43:00.
My last "official" 50K race was just under 8:00:00. Now it had 10,000 feet of climbing at elevation and I was seriously undertrained for it...but that's a big time difference.
My fastest 50K (on trail with ~8000 gain) was a bit under 7:30:00.

Tonight's walking pace would put me on course to beat both (though it's not close to my road marathon PR), though I walked on road, no elevation, etc.

My, my, my....Are most of us middle to back of the packers better off race walking anything over 30 miles???

Food for thought....
If I remember right, I swear I heard Chris Wallace say he used to race walk (though I may be totally wrong) I'm curious....

Edited by xnomanx on 01/15/2012 21:19:39 MST.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
racewalking on 01/15/2012 22:02:33 MST Print View

Swing those hips Craig!

Racewalking looks like it requires significantly more technique for it to be effective, but it has to be easier on the body yes? They use the entire foot through the gait cycle, there is considerably less impact. My God is it painful to watch though!

3:34:13 is the racewalk world record for the 50K distance for reference. That's some seriously fast walking.

Edited by Eugeneius on 01/15/2012 22:13:23 MST.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: I was weak! (and random thoughts on walking fast). on 01/15/2012 22:05:22 MST Print View

Craig: I'm a fast walker and historically a non-runner. Serious trail runners beat me every time by a lot, at least in time, although sometimes I go more miles.

But casual runners on a mountain trail? Many times I walk past them as they are "running". And since they stop to eat, drink and rest, which I do as I walk, I do the round trip faster.

For a few miles, I'd do 14 minute miles walking.

For 10 miles, I'm more at 17 minute miles.

40-50 miles and the day always seem to average 3 mph = 20 minute miles but that includes ALL eating, drinking, filtering, peeing, changing socks, etc.

>"My fastest 50K (on trail with ~8000 gain) was a bit under 7:30:00"

With my style and speed of walking, that would about 9:40 so you're doing it a lot faster with your running. But if you walked the uphills, you might have more energy for the flats and downhills and lose little if anything off your total time.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: I was weak! (and random thoughts on walking fast). on 01/15/2012 22:43:51 MST Print View

...

Edited by asandh on 02/13/2012 20:44:57 MST.