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Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/22/2011 23:56:55 MST Print View

David, the OWS movement is extremely well-organized. I'm not sure where you get the idea that it isn't. Visit any of the OWS websites (just their having websites already shows a propensity for organization) and you can see that it is well coordinated. And very specifically directed. The police wouldn't be as strongly organized to oppose the protesters if it weren't. It may seem unfocused, but that's because the backlash is against a huge and quite amorphous opponent. Much of the backlash comes from many years of frustration by a lot of people who have thought about the issues for a long time.

Brian UL
(MAYNARD76)

Locale: New England
Re: Re: Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/22/2011 23:58:50 MST Print View

Really? the whole video you posted counted the number of products a few protesters where wearing and used it to show how supposedly hypocritical they were...

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Occupy on 11/23/2011 00:03:22 MST Print View

Capitilism for the profits, socialism for the losses.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/23/2011 00:08:37 MST Print View

Really? the whole video you posted counted the number of products a few protesters where wearing and used it to show how supposedly hypocritical they were...

Not sure who you're directing this at, Brian. If me, I certainly didn't post any videos. I've hardly been on BPL in quite a while.

Capitilism for the profits, socialism for the losses.

+1. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em!

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/23/2011 00:10:02 MST Print View

I believe the police are well organized because the 'movement' is affecting the normal course of business for those actually working.

It does appear to be unfocused because it has no place to go. Great - the rally has occurred. Now what? What are the exact requests of the movement, what are the end goals, and what are the proposed implementation plans? Where are the 'talks?' With whom? Between which groups?

What is Obama's stance on the subject?

They want jobs, socialized health care, higher salaries, homes, and revised banking polices. Sounds good. But Wall Street isn't going to give this to them. As mentioned previously, they are targeting the wrong group. Wall Street has more lobbyists on Capital Hill than any other single industry based group. But they wouldn't get what they wanted if it wasn't for the Federal Government gladly giving them what they want. Not for free, of course.

Why isn't anyone marching on government bodies? Marching on Wall Street is misdirected. Reform government and Wall Street will follow.

Brian UL
(MAYNARD76)

Locale: New England
Re: Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/23/2011 00:10:18 MST Print View

"It may seem unfocused, but that's because the backlash is against a huge and quite amorphous opponent."

Yes, every thing that is planned will be countered, so you need to plan a certain amount of dis-organization to make things happen.
Also, the movement refuses to give the opposition a "leader" that they can smear and drag through the mud. This is not about some "personality" like they teach in school history. its about organizing and making things happen together.

Brian UL
(MAYNARD76)

Locale: New England
Re: Re: Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/23/2011 00:11:16 MST Print View

Miguel, I went around you its for the OP. :)

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/23/2011 00:11:36 MST Print View

@Brian - and it was very funny, as it was intended to be. See post #2 for clarification.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/23/2011 00:15:04 MST Print View

"This is not about some "personality" like they teach in school history. its about organizing and making things happen together."

But NOTHING is happening.

"Yes, every thing that is planned will be countered, so you need to plan a certain amount of dis-organization to make things happen."

Right - got it. Be organized, but appear disorganized. No Leader? Got it. Then no talks and no reform.

Brian UL
(MAYNARD76)

Locale: New England
Re: Re: Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/23/2011 00:18:06 MST Print View

"Why isn't anyone marching on government bodies? Marching on Wall Street is misdirected. Reform government and Wall Street will follow.'

They will of course. But its still phase one- public awareness and debate.
They drew attention to Wall street corruption and by implication the power lobbyist every where have over our lives.
read the memo I posted.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/23/2011 00:22:31 MST Print View

Alas, I feel like a BPL has-been after having not posted in quite a long time...

anyways...

In regards to the video, the movement isn't about "evil corporations;" at least in how the video portrays it to be. I think its funny when people try to point out the hypocrisy of the OWS movement by saying that they have iPhones and go to Starbucks. How misguided that criticism is.

Being a big bank?..........................................OK
Being a big corporation?...............................OK
Being a politican?...........................................OK (well, maybe)
Being part of Wall Street?...............................OK
Making a profit as one of the above?.............OK

Lying, cheating, bribing, circumventing the law, screwing the rest of us?...........NOT OK!!!

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/23/2011 01:19:58 MST Print View

Alas, I feel like a BPL has-been after having not posted in quite a long time...

Know exactly how you feel!

+1 on your entire post.

Why isn't anyone marching on government bodies? Marching on Wall Street is misdirected. Reform government and Wall Street will follow.

NOTHING IS HAPPENING!

Actually, the movement is accomplishing exactly what it intended, to get people, like you, talking about it, people voicing their opinions on the state of affairs, even opposing opinions and criticisms. And "marching" is not the purpose of the movement, talking is. You can't make changes to existing problems without people evaluating what is going on. The only way that can be accomplished is to get people talking on all sides, identifying the problems, and together coming up with solutions. You will notice that the OWS movement doesn't attack any one people, not even the police. It only attacks systems that, as Travis showed above, abuse the existing system. It's corruption and unfairness that is being directly addressed.

As to Obama are not saying anything... well, have you been keeping up with what is going on online? Obama: ==> certainly has spoken about the movement.<==(Google selection of YouTube videos where he addresses the topic)

My personal confusion lies in anyone being willing to say that there are no big problems that need addressing in the present economic and societal state of affairs. David, you suggest marching on the government, but, if you listen with an open ear to what the OWS protesters are saying, it is the corporate world that has the government in its pockets. Going to the government would, very much so, be barking up the wrong tree. Corporations and governments being in cahoots is the textbook definition of corruption.

Edited by butuki on 11/23/2011 01:22:37 MST.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/23/2011 01:27:45 MST Print View

>it is the corporate world that has the government in its pockets...

Agreed. It is easy to think that the government controls, in one way or another, all else. They are in fact supposed to govern, no?

No. They are the VISIBLE governing body. What truly runs our country and the world is something we can't see.

drowning in spam
(leaftye) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Re: Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/23/2011 02:03:37 MST Print View

Why isn't anyone marching on government bodies?

That's already happening. Another one might happen that'll be an order of magnitude longer.

While you think their target is misdirected, it's already having an effect on politicians as some of them are already gushing over with support at Occupy events. Politicians understand that they get a lot of financial support from big business, but that's not worth anything if the people won't put them in office. With growing support, corporations can decide if they want to change or be changed.

Arapiles .
(Arapiles) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Re: Occupy on 11/23/2011 04:02:30 MST Print View

"Capitalism for the profits, socialism for the losses."

That's Australian capitalism in a nutshell: privatise profits and socialise losses.

Robert Perkins
(rp3957)

Locale: The Sierras
Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/23/2011 07:24:46 MST Print View

David, That video had me busting a gut laughing this morning! Thanks for posting it, it made my day! It sums up how I feel about the protesters to a 'T'. Thanks again.

David Goodyear
(dmgoody) - MLife

Locale: mid-west
occupy + tea party = positive change on 11/23/2011 07:45:11 MST Print View

This would actually bring about the change that most are wishing for. Rid the gov't of corrupt politicians and bring about accountability with the "cheaters", both in the private sector and in big gov't.

Dave

P.S. the tea party could teach the occupiers manners and how to run a successful and peaceful protest. (not to mention, how to clean-up after themselves)

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/23/2011 08:39:23 MST Print View

"Why isn't anyone marching on government bodies?"

they have - you must not be watching news

A group marched from Occupy Wall Street to Washington.

There are occupy groups everywhere

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Tea Party on 11/23/2011 08:45:16 MST Print View

Tea Party has been taken over by right wingers

Congressman use "tea party" to justify their #1 priority - tax loopholes for corporations and wealthy

I don't think that's what the tea party had in mind initially, although like occupy it's hard to quantify exactly what they're for

Ty Ty
(TylerD)

Locale: SE US
Crazy talk on 11/23/2011 09:20:11 MST Print View

- Jobs go overseas for one reason and it has nothing to do with banks like someone said earlier. It isn't some grand conspiracy it is just business. It is cheaper to manufacture those things overseas and ship them here. If you don't like it, stop demanding that goods get cheaper and start demanding Wal-Mart raise their prices. We vote with our dollars on this issue and the vast majority of Americans have voted that they want more, cheaper. Hence the dominance of Wal-Mart and overseas manufacturing. Period.

- The banks and corporations did what was natural, they made as much as they could by exploiting every avenue for profit they could find. When they lost money they pursued another avenue, lobbying to receive bailouts. It's a logical response by an entity that is inherently (and rightly so) greedy. Greed is what causes a society of human beings to function. It's what causes us to get up to go to work every day because wwe want more faster, cheaper, better. The answer to greedy corporations (humans) asking for tax dollars should have been no. In fact it shouldn't even be possible for the govt to take and dole out money to corporations so they can give bailouts and golden parachutes. It's our fault for allowing our government to take advantage of us human beings/taxpayers. OWS should be Occupy Washington and no place else. It's the government that is supposed to function based on laws that are in place in the better interest of the people. It's the government that failed the people, the corporations did what they are supposed to do we just don't like what they were allowed to do.

- I think the best thing for us is let the system collapse and start over with an attitude adjustment on the part of society.