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Editorial on Occupy Wall Street
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Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/22/2011 13:45:03 MST Print View

Best editorial on the matter yet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2qqRFYv3ao

David Goodyear
(dmgoody) - MLife

Locale: mid-west
WOW - I like it on 11/22/2011 14:11:52 MST Print View

"now that's funny right there - I don't care who you are !! " -Larry the Cable Guy

Dave

drowning in spam
(leaftye) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/22/2011 15:00:21 MST Print View

I haven't paid for a cell phone in 10 years. I have the most basic cell phone plan AT&T offers. Most of my backpacking gear, and aftermarket motorcycle and car parts come from small companies. I built my own computer. I had my first sewing lesson yesterday. I wear very little name brand clothing besides shoes/boots, and those are New Balance, Ahnu, Waldies, Asolo and Inov-8. I used to volunteer heavily at a homeless shelter. I've volunteered heavily in many ways since then, including spending a lot of time this summer doing volunteer trail work. It's a good thing this guy didn't use me as an example. I'm planning on going to the Occupy San Diego site today, and we'll see where my involvement goes from there.

Thomas Burns
(nerdboy52) - MLife

Locale: "Alas, poor Yogi.I knew him well."
Poor white trash on 11/22/2011 15:19:42 MST Print View

Sigh. What this video reminds me of is the Civil War. Hundreds of thousands of poor men (mostly) died to support the rights of a few rich, plantation owners. The plantation owners referred to them derisively as "poor, white trash," and then counted on them to die to support their rights.

Yes, I'm middle class. Yes, I detest the conservatives who exploit the tea partiers to support their corporate greed. And yes, I'm willing to increase my tax rate to help those in need.

I simply found this video disgusting, ignorant, and stupid. Shame on him for his ugly attitude toward people who truly want to help.

Stargazer

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Poor white trash on 11/22/2011 15:48:41 MST Print View

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

Ghandi

Okay, maybe Ghandi didn't say this but he should have

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/22/2011 16:00:02 MST Print View

You show' em Eugene!

Evan McCarthy
(evanrussia) - MLife

Locale: Northern Europe
Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/22/2011 16:04:34 MST Print View

Gimli

"Certainty of death. Small chance of success. What are we waiting for?"

-Gimli

In all seriousness, here's a must-read article on the origins of the occupy movement.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/28/111128fa_fact_schwartz

Edited by evanrussia on 11/22/2011 16:12:21 MST.

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/22/2011 16:10:20 MST Print View

Best editorial on the matter yet.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/owss-beef-wall-street-isnt-winning-its-cheating-20111025

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Poor white trash on 11/22/2011 16:12:38 MST Print View

Interview 9 out or 10 'Occupiers' and they won't:

a.) fully understand the banking system and how it relates to the world economy and

b.) understand what they are actually protesting.

Having spent a lot of my working life trading derivatives and then consulting on its inherent evils, it isn't Wall Street that initiated the fall of the American economy. It was the small banks and mortgage brokers that pushed crap higher and higher. Sure Wall Street bundled it together and then Goldman Sachs shorted the entire thing but 'Occupy' should start at the grass roots level. Your local bank and your local mortgage company and your local community college, because the latter is doing a seriously bad job at providing suitable economic education to the masses.

It should then continue with your local government to push local companies to stop manufacturing overseas and to keep the jobs local. Then it should be driven higher with your State Senators to bring back manufacturing to America.

Oh, and remember to read the fine print before you take on more debt than you can afford. I mean, should we not blame the buyers and speculators of over valued assets over the past several years?

Don't get me wrong, I like the 'idea' of 'Occupy' but trying to stall the Wall Street banking sector is a waste of time. It won't go anywhere.

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/22/2011 16:18:40 MST.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Poor white trash on 11/22/2011 16:16:24 MST Print View

fix

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/22/2011 16:18:23 MST Print View

Oh, and remember to read the fine print before you take on more debt than you can afford.

So true, because non one is coming to bail YOU out.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/22/2011 16:20:35 MST Print View

Indeed.

But no one put a gun to your head to sign the mortgage papers, the new car loan contract, and the....

Brian Barnes
(brianjbarnes) - M

Locale: Midwest
RE: "Editorial on Occupy Wall Street" on 11/22/2011 16:24:26 MST Print View

David, excellent points - well said.
Evan and Jason - Nice counter points.

A fascinating and polarizing issue for sure.

Edited by brianjbarnes on 11/22/2011 16:50:55 MST.

James Castleberry
(Winterland76)
Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/22/2011 16:36:02 MST Print View

I thought that video was really condescending and closed-minded. I'm lucky enough to have a job but I'm not laughing at OWS protestors.
I think a lot of the protestors DO understand that our banking and monetary system is fundamentally corrupt and dishonest. A Ponzi scheme. (something I don't think the video presenter understands).
There is nothing wrong with making a profit, provided it is part of doing something for the greater public good. But profit for profit's sake (derivatives, High Frequency Trading, Insider Trading), that should not be allowed.
Regarding people knowing what they were signing with mortgage papers, what they didn't fully understand was the degree to which banks, corporations, and politicians had colluded to ship our jobs overseas. That is fraud on the banks' part. The very banks making home loans and then selling MBS were the same banks helping corporations restructure and build factories, move operations overseas.
Regarding the comment about OWS protestors being "litter bugs," if our banking regulations were only enforced as carefully as Zucotti Park regulations, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
Re: Poor white trash on 11/22/2011 16:36:17 MST Print View

Oh, and remember to read the fine print before you take on more debt than you can afford.

Hey David,

Do you have a credit card? If so, quick now, detail for us the fine print you've agreed to and what it actually means in real life. Quick now, without looking ... what's the overdraft fee on your check card (if you have one). One last question ... when your job becomes collateral damage of the next financial sector fubar how many years will your reserves cover your current obligations? In the event that your current obligations can be met with a minimum wage job then I'll alter the previous question to "How many months can your reserves cover" ... you can bet your bippy it'll take months to land that min wage job.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
RE: "Editorial on Occupy Wall Street" on 11/22/2011 16:37:32 MST Print View

"Oh, and remember to read the fine print before you take on more debt than you can afford."

Duhhh...

But people are baragged by advertisements to borrow money to buy stuff.

I can see how people get confused and borrow when they shouldn't.

We need more education how you're better off when you don't borrow.

It's like you're blaming the victim.

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
Re: Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/22/2011 16:44:37 MST Print View

But no one put a gun to your head to sign the mortgage papers, the new car loan contract,

Regarding those who did so not having adequate income to pay ... who was it that put the gun to the head of the mortgage lender and car load lender, forcing them to make that loan with no evidence that it could be paid back?

There is shared responsibility in the above case.

But the above case does not come close to describing half of the folks who are in deep financial do-do. There are plenty who took a mortgage with a decent down payment whose income was eliminated by the downturn caused by the financial industry's massive fraud. Or perhaps you are advocating that they not take a mortgage unless they have enough cash on hand to buy outright?

Clint Hewitt
(WalkSoftly33) - F

Locale: New England
All profitable companies are not evil on 11/22/2011 16:45:09 MST Print View

This issue is complex there is not one "right way" to view it.

But one distinction that I do not hear this gentleman make, and I do not hear the Occupiers making is the distinction between successful corporations that are profitable because they provide a great product/ service. Versus those who are profiting because of subsidies, sweetheart deals, lobbying, policies, laws and bailouts from our government. Think Small businesses v. the Big Banks, Military Industrial Complex, Education, Health

They are two distinct groups and should not be confused. If we continue to view them as one in the same it will have dire consequences.

I just recently finished reading Atlas Shrugged by Ann Ryand. There are many parallels to our current situation.

The example of a Cell phone. I do not know how to make one. I do not know how to fire a satellite into space and keep an electric plant operating to provide the charge. Individuals of ability, the technicians are invaluable and should be compensated for there skills. Sure you can live with out a phone. I did for 6months while thru hiking. But it is a convenience that I utilized occasionally by borrowing someones to call my family. Not a right, but a privilege to utilize that service. A lot of things viewed as rights are really privileges. Im not saying that individuals should be denied these privileges. But they are privileges none the less, not rights. The providers of those privileges, the individuals of ability do have a right to be compensated for there time, effort, ability. Our society has chosen money as a means of compensation until we chose something else individuals that can do things and do do things will make money. They should not be punished and have there earnings stolen from them, because they have worked hard and got something done. It is just a matter of separating them from the sanctioned criminals that did not provide a valuable service and product in bed with the government.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: RE: "Editorial on Occupy Wall Street" on 11/22/2011 17:13:26 MST Print View

@Jerry - although it seems that it would be quite normal to read the fine print, most don't! Most don't know how their mortgage works, how the interest is calculated, whether there is early termination penalties, etc.

So I guess you can respond to the discussion with 'Duhhh....,' but there seems to be a trend here. It's not like a mortgage for a house is a casual purchase.

I too see how people can get confused but much of this stems from wanton consumerism, rather than from say, a Maslow need. Most of us would do just fine with a modest house and a used car but most of use don't go that route.

I believe that like any biological organism, humans will eventually push back if pushed too far. But it is this reactionism that provides solace too little too late. The only reason we saw housing prices rise the way that they did was because people were willing to pay the high prices and in doing so had to borrow copious amounts of cash.

There are indeed many different variables that helped to cause the current global economic crisis, including keeping interest rates low while at the same time printing money and the continuing distance from the gold standard, not producing anything and conveniently changing the inputs to the reported GDP model (all countries are guilty of this), minimizing the ability of the average American by turning them into consumers instead of producers and moving manufacturing overseas, etc. But the ultimate onus is on us.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Editorial on Occupy Wall Street on 11/22/2011 17:21:02 MST Print View

"Interview 9 out or 10 'Occupiers' and they won't..."

Been out there asking questions and listening to the people, eh David?

So while we're pulling statistics and "facts" out of our ar$es, I'll throw some out there too:

Interview those opposed to OWS and you'll find that 9 out of 10 don't know anything about OWS besides what Limbaugh, Levin, Hannity, or O'Reilly tell them.