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North Face Thermoball technology
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Adam Kilpatrick
(oysters) - MLife

Locale: South Australia
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: alpha on 03/09/2014 19:04:34 MDT Print View

>>>>No matter who published the chart, it shows the competitor "market leading synthetic insulation" to have a clo of 2.12. This is HIGHER than 800FP down and more than 2x higher than what was previously thought to be the market leader, Primaloft One with a clo of 0.92.

If that spec is correct, we need to find out what this new insulation is!>>>>>

+1

I also found that a bit weird. However, good on them for admitting that their warmth for weight is somehow inferior.

I can definitely see a use for this kind of synthetic if it is indeed very durable and breathable. A hard wearing vest for cold, wet, rough and tough conditions (hard bushwalking in Tasmania especially heading towards autumn, winter, spring) would be good.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: alpha on 03/09/2014 20:53:13 MDT Print View

No matter who published the chart, it shows the competitor "market leading synthetic insulation" to have a clo of 2.12. This is HIGHER than 800FP down and more than 2x higher than what was previously thought to be the market leader, Primaloft One with a clo of 0.92.

If that spec is correct, we need to find out what this new insulation is!

No matter at the end of the day, it is the design, construction and fit of the garment that determines its utility. Shell fabrics and insulators are of secondary importance though sometimes that's what we seem to focus on.


oh come on now rick ...

you dont even know what the listed standard ASTM F1868-09 is denominated to ... ever consider that primaloft uses clo/oz/yd2 ... and that polartec might use a DIFFERENT metric ???? ... you just assume the mesurement sample standards are the same as what primaloft quotes in their MARKETING literature

what if i told you that one of the best insulations is rated at 0.027 clo ... i bet you would rush off to say it "sucks" ... but thats what PL1 is rated at depending on how you measure it

LOL

if you want well simply send off an email to westcomb and polartec asking for clarification ... instead of you having to be "proven right"

No matter what, when we spend $$$$$ on a synthetic insulation piece we are looking for something that meets our needs ... if you are looking for something to wear while active/semiactive most the time the perhaps polartec alpha is what youre looking for


but for a more static insulation use, it insulates significantly less per weight than your normal top of the line synthetics

i mean if the "warmth" per weight doesnt matter ... we should go back to polarguard 3d ... and 500 fill down ... after all "Shell fabrics and insulators are of secondary importance"

BTW ... here is the polartecs OWN material ... i doubt they are saying their garment is LESS insulating if it werent ... if it were as warm as say PL1, they would be screaming it to the top of the mountains =P

http://www.rab-noticias.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Polartec-Alpha-Spanish.pdf





;)

Edited by bearbreeder on 03/09/2014 21:15:40 MDT.

Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: alpha on 03/10/2014 05:05:37 MDT Print View

Euh, that leading competitor is P1 and that 2,12 is the (i)clo for a garment and corresponds to 0,92 clo/oz for a weight of ± 2,3 oz/yd2 (80 grams/m2).

Barry P
(BarryP) - F

Locale: Eastern Idaho (moved from Midwest)
Re: North Face Thermoball technology on 03/11/2014 17:08:07 MDT Print View

“A good alternative to down? What do you think?”

I’ve been wondering about this since I started wearing it 5 months ago. Mine is a medium and weighs 14oz. My Montbell Action Thermawrap (size M) weighs <10oz.

I have found my thermawrap keeps me warmer. And the thermawrap packs smaller. But the Thermoball looks nicer and so I’ve been wearing that around town and reserving my Thermawrap for biking and backpacking.
In terms of weight, packability, and warmth, both out due midweight fleece.

In the end, I would not buy Thermoball again knowing there is lighter and warmer synthetics out there.
But some more pluses for the NF thermoball: It has the best zipper of all my coats (WM, Montbell, and Marmot).

Have fun experimenting,
-Barry
-The mountains were made for Tevas