While I'm interested in the idea of these, can I question why they would be necessary on a 3 day trek like this? Honestly, the idea of them disgusts me to the core. The idea that you would let your feet stew in their own sweat and liquid rather than letting it out via breathable waterproof liner boot seems not just icky but also really unhealthy for the foot. I get athlete's foot easily, but I can't do a 5 day in thick leather boots without having a problem with my feet in that sense. Once I switched to lighter and more breathable boots, things have been so perfect. I find the more breathable the footwear, the less my feet suffer. True, if the boots got wet it would suck. BUT, then you would just bring extra mountaineering socks, liners, and sleep with the boots in the bag to keep them from freezing, no? And worse case if you didn't want them in your bag couldn't you use boiled water in a water bottle to put in the boot to thaw in the morning? I just can't imagine what would be worse than letting your foot hold onto its moisture, it goes against everything I've learned about foot health, and I think my feet would start to fall apart on the second day. How have your experiences differed from my imagination here?

1) Just wondering about if we've agreed on a meeting time and I haven't found out. I know it will be only 2 miles in the first day on friday, but with borrowing two set of snowshoes I'm wondering about the logistics of timing in regards to getting to the parking lot in time to pick up the snowshoes (if we end up even needing them, with the way the weather is going right now). Any thoughts on this from either Ryan or Bryce ? (Thanks to you both by the way for the loaners)

2) If her work schedule permits, I also may be joined by not only my brother but also my cousin. She has been a professional white water guide in Alaska for the past two summers and has all her own camping gear that would be suitable for 0*. I did warn her that she may be overwhelmed with our lightweight techno-babble (she is a more traditional camper) and be surrounded by guys for the whole hike, but we shall see.

...So I'll be at your place whenever you like on Friday. I figure it's up to the occupants of each car as to when to arrive at the trailhead and then we all meet at the first shelter Friday night.

But if individuals are borrowing gear from another car, then some coordination needs to be made.

Do you like those adjustable poles? They are so light! I didn't buy them when I saw them last year because I thought I might be too heavy for them. How have they held up? If you love them maybe I should give them a try!

I will also be requesting Friday off so I can get in early. Seth, I'll coordinate with you as far as borrowing snowshoes. Aside from that... we'll see.

Adam, I'm a big fan of my LT4's. 3000+ miles on them so far. So glorious. I won't be using them in winter, though. A little too risky for me, although I'm sure they can handle it :)

Adam you aren't wrong in your assumptions. VBL has a very limited range of use before it becomes overkill or as you said disgusting. The best use for it is long term mountaineering, when plastic or thick non-breathable boots are required, and you will be on a longer trip in which if your boots get filled with sweat and freeze solid they will become useless ending the trip abruptly. On any trip less than 3 nights they really aren't necessary. If you can confidently control the amount of moisture that builds up in your boots through technique or the type of boot they aren't necessary. However on a small trip like this VBL socks are perfect to test out to see if you like them and would want to use them on longer or more technical trips where they would be required. This trip is perfect because it is short, conditions shouldn't be to harsh, and if someone decides they don't like them, and takes them off for the rest of the trip nothing is ruined.

How VBL works is that once your feet let out enough sweat to hit a certain moisture level your feet just stop sweating because they can't evaporate heat there anymore. It sounds weird but it does work. The only reason I am wearing VBL on this trip is because I have a new VBL layer that I want to test on this trip and hopefully figure out how to make it work on the rest of my winter trips. The only reason I won't bring it is if the weather is calling for sustained temps well above mid 20's because VBL then becomes dangerously hot and controlling moisture becomes difficult.

The layering of VBL is also a very light weight base/wicking layer, then vbl, then all other clothing over top.

If you go to Andrew Skurka's website he has a much more detailed write up on the science behind VBL.

I work on Friday, I am going to try and get out early, but coming from Jersey, I won't be hitting the trail head until after 7 most likely. Save me some tarp space!

I went skiing this past week and I fell injuring my knee, my upper body went one way while the ski and lower leg stayed put, twisting my knee before the boot kicked out of the binding.

I do not have any swelling, I can support my weight and I can walk up and down stairs. I experience some pain at random moments, I think when my leg experiences side ways pressure or torsion. The pain has yet to be severe. But I am not really sure about the extent of the injury, I am optimistic that I merely strained some of my ligaments and did not tear anything.

Right now I am up in there air if I will be ready for the GTG or not. I am pretty bummed out that this injury occurred, about five seconds after I fell I considered how this would affect my ability to go to hiking in two weeks at the meetup.

I am going to give my self a few more days of total rest and then try and work it out a little to see how it responds. I do not want to be going on the hike if I do not think my leg can handle it.

My fingers are crossed.

Thanks for elaborating. I checked out the Andrew's site I read that but I like your summary better :) It also makes sense to try them out on a shorter trip, duh! I doubt I'd have time to take off work for long enough to do a trip where I'd need them anyway, at least not anytime soon. I'm hoping to get my new winter boots next week so I'll have to take some short hikes to break them in. What date is this outing for now? I can't put together all the different posts in the right order with the dates :)

Weekend of 13Jan2011 - 15Jan2011

I updated the first post to reflect this and some other info for exactly that reason =D

oh no Clint!! fingers crossed for a speedy recovery!

Good Luck Clint, go stick your knee in that fresh snow that fell this weekend it will be back to new in no time.

FYI, tonight, at least in Boston, is calling for overnight temps in the teens and into the negatives with wind-chill, with tomorrow into the high teens w/ wind chill tomorrow night. An excellent opportunity for testing out the cold-weather sleep systems in the backyard.

Snowed lightly yesterday in southern VT, snowing all day today lightly. Should total about 6" up high and down to a dusting at the trail head. Next Thursday there is a chance for a decent storm but it could be mixed precip at lower elevations, lets hope for snow!

I just tested my whisperlite that I haven't used since 2006 (with gas that's been in the bottle since the same time) and it started up like new. I love how these things work :) So we've definitely got one good stove. I've got about a liter and a half of white gas. Does anyone else have white gas? Should we buy a new bottle?

I've confirmed that I have friday through sunday off from work, so I'm going to try to get to the trailhead just after noon to walk up and down the trail and pack a path out for us. Seth, when will you get to the trailhead? I will meet you there to hand off my spare pair of snowshoes.

Flurries in Keene right now (about 50 miles east of our trailhead). I'll keep doing the snow dance for a big dumping before the trip!

I am bringing a 33oz MSR fuel bottle and debating bringing an 11oz bottle as well. If you are bringing one of the large bottles and we have the wood stove and a canister stove I will leave the small bottle behind.

note to self. test stove tonight since I haven't started it since June.

Edited by earn_my_turns on 01/05/2012 14:23:12 MST.

I've got a Jetboil GCS 1.5 L pot set-up that I'm going to bring. I also need to coordinate arriving times with Ryan and Bryce as I am getting snowshoes from each of them. Ryan has the whole day off, as do I and those coming with me --- which includes Bryce ?? I can't remember. But as it stands now (I think) I'll be bringing Bryce, Myself, my twin brother Daniel, and my cousin Lauren in my Outback. Just off the top of my head I was thinking of trying to meet in CT for the carpool around 11am and then head up to the trailhead to hopefully arrive around 1:30pm. Haven't talked it over with anyone yet so feedback from Bryce and Ryan would be good - and I'll make sure my brother and cousin can do that timing or something similiar as well. Other timing suggestions just let me know.

lets rock and roll!!!!

Hi Adam, I love them. The lightest I know of are the Ti Goat poles but they are smaller diameter and I don't like the grips. Blackdiamond have some light ones as well, but they are three section collapsible, not adjustable. Ryan has many, many more miles on his so trust his words, but they have served my heavier (197lbs) self well. They will be with me on the trip with snow baskets from Leki. GL!

Clint...big time suckage, I hope you make it, would be good to see you.

Seth...11am is fine by me. Actually any time you want, if you want to go earlier. I have Friday off.

FWIW...did a training hike on the 2nd in the Catskills. We set out to do 4 x 3500 series peaks, but ended up with three due to some slowers hikers with us who needed help at times over difficult rock/ice scrambles. We finished the hike w/ headlamps due to the slower hikers and a storm coming in, but man did it kick the crap out of my legs. The billions of times I had to lower myself down on large scrambles took it's toll, but I have a feel this hike will be more gentle. Anyway 8mi and 3 peaks wasn't bad for a day...I'm getting psyched!

Hike pics

Edited by bster13 on 01/05/2012 18:47:55 MST.