Whatever the case, it doesn't sound like fun. If cooking outdoors, the risks are probably minimal, but why risk it?

Ti is nice and safe as well as light and strong.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

So I am a Trangia 27 fan of, cough 30 years, and its the dinosaur in my backpack. The issue I find is its the only way I know how to cook and I can cook anything, regular or specialist foods, the simmer ring does a good range of cheap foods. Plenty of dried foods you'd get in regular stores are basically add to boiling water and simmer for x minutes. Now you could use a pot cosy to produce the equivalent of simmering?

I have the Duossal pans, they replaced some pans which were black and pitted and not sure much longer they'd last, the Duossal ones seem likely to last much longer.

I have the kit with the kettle and I like the kettle! The issue is, and I weighed this, my total cooking kit excluding the fuel is weighing more than my 2-skin tent! I can leave the kettle and boil in the pots, that's only a little hardship, but I've tried moving down from 2 to 1 pot and it creates a need to bring something to eat out of, true a plastic bowl is likely lighter than one of the pots but the 2 nested pots is far neater. I could do without the lid, I never cook in as a frying pan but I do use it to keep stuff warm and to keep the pots off the ground and to accelerate cooking times, and the lid makes a secure package, so I don't really want to leave it behind.

I look enviously at some of these weights say of the Caldera Cone or there was a sale of the Jetboil Sol Ti but they are basically 1-pot solutions. Is there anything better out there?

PS in UK there is a Trangia clone made by Gelert, they don't last, the metal is sooo thin they are bent and need to be bent back and don't last the decades that a Trangia does.

Nigel,

Finding something as versatile and as "bombproof" as the Trangia 27 is going to be tough. When you find it, please let me know so I can put it on my blog. :)

You could go with something like a Clikstand with a Trangia burner. You leave the Trangia windscreens at home and just bring the far lighter Clikstand base and windscreen while retaining the Trangia burner that you're already accustomed to.



I've got to believe you could find an light weight aluminum pot set out there somewhere that will fit the set. See the measurement specifications at the end of my blog post. The Clikstand, by the way, works great with a Trangia kettle.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Edited by hikin_jim on 01/29/2012 23:04:22 MST.

So I like the wide base of the Trangia, because its quite a heavy tall creation you make if you stack the pans on each other (wider warming ontop of narrower).

I've seen some videos of folks putting pots directly on say the stove a ~1Kg weight stacked on something 2" wide.

Windshields, so I dabbled with a mini-Trangia aka Trangia 28 it could not safely cook in my tent porch due to indicate windshield, I tried making a windshield but it would tend to fall / blow away. I've seen folks using small pegs to keep the windshield in place.

Overall, very unsafe to me, but then... its moving away from a lifetime's experience of Trangia.

I had Alu pans first, and was never too keen of the powder coming off the pans. Possibly Ti won't have that same stuff coming off but then isn't Ti producing hot-spots inside which Alu doesn't so more burning? I think a lot of these 1-pot-Ti type setups are good for boiling water but not cooking.

Nigel,

I wouldn't consider the Clikstand to be narrow at all. It's a very nice wide base compared to many alcohol stove set ups that I've seen. Is it as stable as a Trangia 27? No. But if you want something as a stable as a Trangia 27, you'll have to carry a lot more weight.

I see the Clikstand as possibly a middle ground for you. True, it's not as stable as a Trangia 27 (what is?), but it's so much more stable than many small alcohol set ups.

I wouldn't worry too much about aluminum cookware. The link between Alzheimer's disease and aluminum has been in essence disproven. However, if you're really worried about it, get hard anodized aluminum. Problem solved.

Now, look. You're not going to easily get a more durable, better cooking set up than a duossal Trangia 27. If you want a lighter set up, then you'll need to make some compromises. But don't go into "all or nothing" mode. There are choices beyond just a heavy Trangia 27 vs. an ultralight but flimsy/fiddly system. There is a middle ground.

Seriously, look into a Clikstand with some hard anodized aluminum cookware. I think you can find that middle ground.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

I was a skiny (140Lbs?) 16yr old and between 3 of use we carried a Trangia 27 and a 3man tent in canvas rucksacks.

Ah, yes, the canvas rucksack. I remember those. I looked for our old one, but alas I couldn't find it in my dad's possessions after he passed away.

Now, I'm older, heavier, and don't have the knees to tolerate heavy gear. I lighten up, yes, by choice, but also by necessity.

Let me know how you get on with finding something lighter yet still suitable than your Trangia 27.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

The Trangia 27 is a complete bombproof cooking system, if you're not in a hurry to cook, and/or you're not carrying much weight for long, and/or when its 2 people. In fact the slower cooking becomes time you get back and save as i can be putting on my tea whilst packing up my tent contents and can have my breakfast (porridge) be cooking as I pack my tent, and in the evening I can be putting my tent up via supper is cooking. The windshield and the very wide base means you can place this Trangia 27 well to the side as you pitch and just check it periodically. That actually means in terms of human time spent, its faster than a Jetboil which you have to stand and watch as it boils over in seconds.

The issue is things like lunchtime winter hot drink / lunch - its slower, with it all packed til boiling is well over 10 mins.

On very long backpacking trips the weight does wear you down, I think then there's an argument for the Caldera Cone and just restrict your food to single-pan mode.

I just ordered a Jetboil for one scenario (day hikes lunch stops), probably get a Caldera Cone also just figuring what pot to take.

I've been very happy with an MSR Titan 850ml kettle for solo use. I've even used it for two people, although it's a tad small for two for dinner and hot drinks.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Here's some weights
www.blacktoe.co.uk/trangia/Weight.pdf

So the Duossal outer pan is 134g, the inner is 130g, that gets you 1L pans, two stack for 234g total. The Trangia pot handle is 48g. The Duossal lid is 131g, the lightest lid Trangia sell is the HA at 80g, or non-stick HA is 154g.

Those weights are not significantly higher than light non-Trangia pans.

How does this sound?

Caldera Cone 34g (typical)
Ti pot griper 24g
Trangia inner pot 130g
Caldera stove 16g
tin-foil lid - 5g (guessing)

Total 1L system excl fuel 209g.

If you paired with the HA lid 80g and used both pans total increases to 423g with 2 pots and a pan, the pan you could rest lip-down to keep any heat nearer the cone or without any pot under and as a regular frying pan with the heat all in the centre area.

The concern is you could not actually place two full pans stacked ontop of each other with the Caldera Cone underneath, I would think it too high for a too-thin the Cone itself, it would tend to be prone to fall over? Certainly could use both pans so you can swap between pans for cooking/eating reasons and use the lid to keep pans warmer?

Edited by nigelhealy on 01/30/2012 12:47:29 MST.

I think an actual UL trangia 27 could be made:

Drop the frypan capability and just use a foil lid of same shape (I think the lid adds efficiency by trapping hot gases a bit like a caldera cone).

Make the upper windshield out of a foil frustum (truncated cone) (of approx same alu thickness as caldera cone), similarly use a foil inverted frustum lower windshield (dimensions of both pretty much unchanged), which are joined via a perforated disc supporting burner, which would contain the pot supports.

The unit would nest like the current trangia except that the pans would be upside down, so that pot support pegs fit inside pots.

As it is a new stove design, some way of controlling the simmer mode externally would seem a good addition, and perhaps attract/convert some gas users.

Foil frustum windshields might be just as robust as the current aluminum alloy because they could flex rather than dent.


NB the new UL/HA 27 pots are 80grams each, so lighter than duossal
With the frustum windshields it would look a bit like the optimus 81/91/trapper stoves, which could also be similarly lightweight.

Edited by ahbradley on 01/30/2012 13:07:40 MST.

I've used different pots, non-stick doesn't last, Alu becomes pitted and you should see the black water as you scrub it clean, and the pan becomes pitted after say 50 nights. Ti burns food easily. With Duossal, you don't get burning anything like as bad and cleaning is easier.

Duossal is the perfect marriage for clean long-living pans, adding 50g for that is worthwhile.

Edited by nigelhealy on 01/30/2012 13:14:55 MST.

So, a Trangia 27 kit includes at a minimum 2 pans and a lid, and optionally a kettle.

A Caldera Cone and its stove is about 55g to fit a Trangia 27 pot, and a foil lid not much.

So for a group 2/3/4 person type situation you could pack a Trangia 27 kit, which is heavy, and a light Caldera and then could parallel cook using both pans. Heck add two cones and you could be frying and two pans all at once.

Nigel,

If you want to save some weight, the Clikstand really will work, and it will work with both pots simultaneously, just like a Trangia.


The stand is a little hard to see in that photo, but it is there.

Now, you do lose the upper windscreen of the Trangia when you use the Clickstand. I add in a Ti foil windscreen of my own to the arrangement shown above, 29g.

You save even more weight if you leave behind the pan from the Trangia set and use a lightweight pan. I'll do the numbers when I have time.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

So the Clickstand, you use your existing pots and just have a lighter base, and the same core issue you get if you don't do a cone of the missing shield to add

If you ditch the Trangia 27's base and windshield and use the Clickstand instead, you remove 314g of Trangia and add 94g for Clickstand or 57g for Clickstand Ti and add your windshield (say from the same Clickstand) of 37g or 20g. So your weight saving is between 183g costing $45, and 237g costing $80

If you get a Caldera Cone you get 269g of saving for $35, probably gain some fuel efficiency too (hot exhausts are kept nearer the pan with the cone than the Clickstand - I guess you've measure that).

Trail Designs confirmed the Alu/HA pans are supported by their cone, but not the Duossal ones I own :(

Nigel,

Weight savings will vary depending on what version of the Trangia 27 you have. With my Trangia 27, If I remove the lower and upper windscreens and substitute a Clikstand with a BPL Ti windscreen, I save 241g. I paid $39 including shipping for my used Clikstand and $5 for my used windscreen.

If I further substitute a small lightweight fry pan for the Trangia's fry, pan, my weigh savings increase to 300g. I paid $5 for the small lightweight fry pan at a garage sale.

My total cost for 300g savings is about $50 or about $0.17 per gram if my math is correct. Not cheap, but reasonable I think, and there's just no way I'm going to carry a 660g set up backpacking, and that 660g does not include the Trangia burner, pot grabber, or strap.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Thinking about my previous UUL trangia suggestions, they have mutated towards a more caldera cone like form (hence this is now a suggestion to Trail Designs); here it is:---

The usual partial cone (frustum) windshield is split into two (permanently formed) cones/frustums which are joined by an aluminium "burner holding" plate. So this stove would be like a 3 part trangia. Lifting the burner off ground has some advantages: it insulates burner from cold ground, and fixes the burner-pot distance on bumpy ground. The lower 2 or all 3 parts could latch together like a modern trangia.

The upper cone stops short (like a sidewinder) for compactness, and to allow the lip-less duossal pots to be used (because their base rests on "standard" pot supports rather than hanging on their pot lip).
The nesting HA/UL/duossal trangia 27 pots are used, with a foil lid.

The pot supports are on the middle disc (disappear inside upside down pots when packed): see diagram.

A 12-10 / feather fire style burner with external simmer control would be a further improvement over a trangia.

The unit should retain the compact nesting of a "proper" trangia, the permanently closed cones should save weight/assembly time, and hopefully waste less material than a a fissure cone.

The fact that foil rather than hard rigid UL alloy is used for the windshields might make it more robust than a UL 27 trangia: instead of denting the foil can flex and spring back.

The diagram:



EDIT: It has been pointed out to me (by CP) that my diagram wrongly shows the lower windshield inside the outer one rather than vice versa. Also, its possible the foil might need additional protection (eg an enclosing bowl).
NB this idea is (non-exclusively) donated to Trail Designs.

Edited by ahbradley on 02/12/2012 05:44:12 MST.

The previous idea seems a bit complicated: now I think more, a loosely fitting sidewinder/f(l)issure style windshield for 2 nesting pots (like those of the trangia 27) supported by, for example, stakes, with the addition of a solid base disc to hold burner in place, and cope with uneven ground, and a externally controllable burner (like the feather-fire), would seem better and simpler: and could probably available "made to special order" if Trail Designs were asked.