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NeverWet superhydrophobic spray on coating
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Todd Ler
(Toddler) - F

Locale: PNW
NeverWet superhydrophobic spray on coating on 11/12/2011 16:14:34 MST Print View

check this vid out. Coming to consumers in 2012.

I can see using this to waterproof everything from tent flys to cell phones, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7is6r6zXFDc&feature=youtu.be

Edited by Toddler on 11/12/2011 17:20:43 MST.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
NeverWet superhydrophobic spray on coating on 11/12/2011 17:23:25 MST Print View

Can't wait for the Hyper version.


just kidding.
Thanks for the link.
Franco

Matthew Marasco
(BabyMatty) - F

Locale: Western/Central PA, Adirondacks
re: on 11/12/2011 23:24:09 MST Print View

Amazing! I wonder what consequence such a coating would have on a fabric's breathability.

Stamati Anagnostou
(yeoldehipster) - F

Locale: New England
hmm on 11/13/2011 10:10:08 MST Print View

That's a great question, Matthew. I emailed them to see what they have to say.

If you guys haven't checked out the video on their website where they coat their shoes and a jacket in it, you really should. This is super neat and I look forward to seeing the community here take advantage of it- hell, I can't wait to use this stuff!

Edited by yeoldehipster on 11/13/2011 10:30:42 MST.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: NeverWet superhydrophobic spray on coating on 11/13/2011 11:30:53 MST Print View

Interesting stuff. If it isn't breathable, it would still be great on packs and shelters. The anti-icing properties could have all kinds of applications for snow sports. I wonder how it would do on crampons and snowshoe hardware.

It would be interesting to see if there is any significant reduction in drag when using it on small boats.

drowning in spam
(leaftye) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Re: NeverWet superhydrophobic spray on coating on 11/13/2011 13:04:57 MST Print View

Dale, nice thinking on snow hardware. I often apply spray on dwr coatings to my pants to help them stay dry and dry faster, but perhaps I should not put these on the seat of my pants otherwise I may butt glissade way too fast. This would be great on shoe uppers. I wish I had something like that yesterday because I was slogging through puddles for hours. I also have to wonder how much weight this product adds. I also thought it would be great for shelters, but not if it increases the weight significantly.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: NeverWet superhydrophobic spray on coating on 11/13/2011 13:23:21 MST Print View

Yeah, yeah, I am sure it's great. When new.
But how long does it last?
Does it get slowly washed off? (silicone does)
Does it resist abrasion from scrub?
Does the effect rely on it being totally clean all the time?
What effect do skin oils have on it?
etc etc etc

Cheers

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: NeverWet superhydrophobic spray on coating on 11/13/2011 14:39:44 MST Print View

Good questions Roger. As far as abrasion goes, pack straps are an area of concern too. I would see more application on the manufacturing level than for consumers.

From the closeups in the videos it creates a fairly rough surface.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
NeverWet, Hmmm... on 11/13/2011 15:52:14 MST Print View

If this the spray-on version for fabrics DOES last at least as long as say, Revivex, it would be THE DWR to have. Their video is amazing, especially the chocolate syrup running right off white tennis shoes with no trace.

I hope this stuff is very durable - and reasonably priced.

Can you see spraying it on someone's towel as a practical joke? (Yeah, I'm bad.)

Stamati Anagnostou
(yeoldehipster) - F

Locale: New England
durability on 11/13/2011 15:53:23 MST Print View

In my email I included a question about the durability. In their white paper it says something about the Taber abrasion test being applied to it, and I have no clue what that is. They said they dipped it in liquid nitrogen 10 times and bent the metal it was on and it didn't fail. Not like that equates at all to how we'd use it.

Anyway, there is such a variety of applications for this stuff. Depending on price, if it's at least as durable as a good DWR it could be way useful.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: NeverWet superhydrophobic spray on coating on 11/13/2011 16:02:15 MST Print View

How about we dip Roger Caffin headfirst into the stuff, let him dry, and set him out in the storm? Then he can write an excellent first-hand report.

--B.G.--

Bradley Danyluk
(dasbin) - MLife
Cool on 11/13/2011 16:31:39 MST Print View

I approached this with a very skeptical mindset but the information is very convincing.

I suspect it is actually extremely durable. There is a video of them pressure-washing a surface at point blank range for an hour. After the pressure-wash, the surface performed identically as it did before. One video mentioned it being used for years in salt water without degrading. It also said that in the case of the two liquids which it will not repel - soap and alcohol - the surface will return to its previous hydrophobic state after drying of those liquids.

Breathability is my number one question at this point. Without that, it's useless in a backpacking scenario.
But if it is breathable, you could potentially coat all your gear/clothes in it, probably not even need a hardshell layer, and never have to worry about drying out wet clothes, tents, sleeping bags after a storm. In fact, you wouldn't even have to worry about things getting dirty. One video showed pristine white shoes jumping in a puddle of mud. They come out white as new.

My next question would be toxicity. Fluoropolymer coatings currently rule the market in terms of durability, but there are toxicity / carcinogenic concerns compared to the less durable wax-based or silicone-based coatings. I suspect there is some amount of fluorine in this process, usually necessary in creating a superhydrophobic surface.

Edited by dasbin on 11/13/2011 16:54:38 MST.

Bradley Danyluk
(dasbin) - MLife
Electronics on 11/13/2011 16:38:12 MST Print View

There was another video where they coated just the outside of an iPhone and submerged it for 30 mins; it was functioning the whole time.
Cool.
You can also coat the actual PCB's which would make electronics function indefinitely in the presence of water.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
fuzzies on 11/13/2011 16:57:02 MST Print View

i wonder what would happen if i sprayed a fuzzy wuzzy with this .... waterproof household pets !!!

hmmmmmm

What's the secret behind NeverWet?

NeverWet — which has 13 patents pending — works much as Scotchgard does in protecting furniture, carpets and other surfaces. That is, it creates a very high contact angle for water on a surface, Jones explained.

A drop of water that lies flat on a surface has a contact angle of zero percent, but if the droplet forms into a perfect circle, it has an angle of 180 degrees.

Human skin provides a surface angle of 75 to 90 degrees, Jones said. Car wax provides a surface angle of about 95 degrees. Scotchgard has an angle as high as 116 degrees.

In contrast, NeverWet has a contact angle as high as 165 degrees, which means water forms an almost perfect sphere.

Because of that shape, the water is repelled.

Materials scientist Vinod Sikka, Ross Nanotechnology's director of research and development, played a key role in inventing NeverWet, Jones said.

Sikka previously spent 34 years at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, where he became manager of research and technology development.

But having a superior product alone isn't enough to guarantee commercial success, Jones points out.

"It's challenging to break into the coatings market. People have been using the same stuff from the same suppliers for a long time," he said.

Jones sees lots of potential for NeverWet, though.

"It is very novel, and when you start thinking about it, you can think about how transformative the technology can be," Jones said. "You can use it everywhere."

Read more: http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/438712_When-these-guys-say-NeverWet-----they-mean-it.html

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: NeverWet superhydrophobic spray on coating on 11/13/2011 17:32:55 MST Print View

"Yeah, yeah, I am sure it's great. When new.
But how long does it last?
Does it get slowly washed off? (silicone does)
Does it resist abrasion from scrub?
Does the effect rely on it being totally clean all the time?
What effect do skin oils have on it?
etc etc etc"

AND is it breathable?

Daryl and Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: Re: Re: NeverWet superhydrophobic spray on coating on 11/13/2011 18:12:42 MST Print View

Some of the hearing aid sellers have been advertising an almost waterproof hearing aid lately. I wonder if they just sprayed it with this stuff?

drowning in spam
(leaftye) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Re: Re: NeverWet superhydrophobic spray on coating on 11/13/2011 18:22:15 MST Print View

AND is it breathable?

If they only sprayed the exterior of that iPhone to make it waterproof, then I doubt it's breathable, or at least that it diminishes breathability.

Bradley Danyluk
(dasbin) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Re: NeverWet superhydrophobic spray on coating on 11/13/2011 18:27:04 MST Print View

What would its application to an iPhone that have to do with breathability?

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
"SUPERsil" on 11/13/2011 20:08:37 MST Print View

Can you imagine this stuff on light nylon instead of regular silicone as we now have it on silnylon? "SUPERsil". Maybe I should copyright that name....

Breathable or not it may be great for tents.


@ Andre (below)
Until now wolverine fur was the only fur that would shed frost well so it was the preferred fur for a parka hood in arctic conditions to readily shed frost from breath.

Now you can take plain ol' coyote fur, spray it with NeverWet and get the same results.
^
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^

Edited by Danepacker on 11/14/2011 12:21:04 MST.

Andre C
(AndreC) - F

Locale: New England
fabrics video on 11/14/2011 07:30:15 MST Print View

"0 effect on breathability"

http://vimeo.com/20262184

I love that they treated fur.

Edited by AndreC on 11/14/2011 07:32:57 MST.