Torrey: Sounds great. Thanks so much! I'm in no rush to cancel my Red Feather Lodge reservations - I can do that up to 24 hours prior. I just PM'ed my cell phone number to you. -David

Edited by DavidinKenai on 03/06/2012 09:56:02 MST.

Alright, I'm in. I'll be arriving late Friday night and staying through Sunday afternoon. I'll likely have at least one other person in tow(Josh Malpass).

Sounds like most everyone is camping at Mather. Does anyone have room for an extra vehicle or shall I book another site?

Anyone started thinking about what time they'd want to start?

BB

I have room. You can find the site number in earlier post. Or I can hunt it down.

I was thinking in the neighborhood of a 4am start..?

Awesome, site #160. Thanks!

BB

Brian, glad you're joining us.

I'm leaning towards a 4am start, or shortly after. I would love to finish climbing up S. Kaibab with the sun still up on the horizon.

How about everyone else?

4am seems reasonable to me. I'll plan on that. I'm sure some will start earlier and some optimistic fast guys might start later:-)

B

I was going to sleep in until maybe 10. Actually 4am sounds good. Anybody given any thought to a target finish time or is the general thought just to wing it?

Editted to add: Well, if everyone else is doing 4 am, I'm game for that. Everyone obviously will have a light with them (right?!? for late night safety options if nothing else). We will have red-eyed into PHX Thursday/Friday night but maybe 2/3 of us can snooze on the drive up Friday.

From the site, http://www.sunrisesunset.com/USA/NationalParks/

for GCNP South Rim, April 14th:

Civil Twi: 5:30am
Sunrise: 5:57am
Sunset: 7:01pm
Civil Twi: 7:27pm
Moonrise: 2:10am
Moonset: 1:10pm

A day past (less than) last quarter of the moon.

Civil twilight (sun is 6 degrees below horison) is pretty conservative for hiking, IME. Nautical twilight (12 degrees) is pretty darn hikeable and that gives a window from 5 am to 8 pm without the need for headlamps. There'll be a "half" moon low to the SE and most of SK faces N and W, so counting on moon light to start at 4 am seems a little dodgy to me. And there will be NO evening moonlight.

For us hiker-runners (with an emphasis on the hiking) which I believe includes Alaskans Tony and me and Mike from Montana, I'm thinking we want to maximize our daylight for a 14-15-16 hour day. It would be a pity to miss sunrise by starting after 6 am. I'm thinking wake up at 5 am, SK trailhead at 5:30 am.

You guys (and gal) who can do it in 10 hours could sleep in and get your beauty rest. We'll say "hi" as you blast past us.

I've got my high-altitude training scheduled way too soon (backpacking with the kids at 8,000 feet on Haleakala, leaving tomorrow), so I'll be mostly off-line for 8 days.

Edited by DavidinKenai on 03/06/2012 10:24:57 MST.

I have this 12-13 hour finish time in my head, but I think it is a bit lofty for my first time and my current fitness, most likely I will have it handed to me and I will take what the canyon gives....so probably hell. ;-) Getting down and starting the initial ascent up N. Kaibab will likely come quickly, especially in the early hours when it is dark, its that return down and up where time is going to accumulate.

More or less I am "winging it" and going with the flow of the day and how my body feels. This is my first R2R2R so my number one goal is pleasure, gotta enjoy it, number two goal is to finish.

I like the 4am idea as it maximizes campfire time post run....which is a prime motivator for me:-)

I'll likely carry a headlamp/windshirt and stash it near Phantom Ranch. I did this last year with my headlamp and several layers that I wore early in the morning but wouldn't need until the afternoon/early evening. This plan worked out well and gave us a little bit of warmth/light for the segments where you're likely to need it.

BB

I'm leaning to a 5:00 am start for the following reason :
want to minimize darkness at the start because the start is downhill, we are fresh, and can run.
don't mind darkness at the end because I will be slow due to uphill and fatigue.
this strategy should yield an overall faster time, by my reasoning.

think my partners and I are leaning towards BA-NK-BA. should be a long day.

Brian: was that a R2R2R you did? You figure you don't need your outer layer on the North Rim at midday? Cause you're moving, tag the sign, and drop back to warmer temps below?

I did a (no-conditioning, 19-hour, no-running) R2R2R in late April once and, yeah, only needed shorts and tee shirt on the North Rim, but by 9 pm coming s-l-o-w-l-y up the SK, I wanted more clothes near the top.

Art: I see your point about more running downhill early than uphill running late. Especially with the gentler slope on the BA.

Is there is must-leave-by time vis-a-vis the evil burro trains? The uphill one I don't mind stepping aside for. It's any downhill ones that I want to be in front of.

Yeah, my girlfriend and I ran it last year in mid-April. I started out with a headlamp/windshell/beanie that I didn't need once we hit the river. She gets cold easily so she had a few layers that she didn't need once things warmed up. There's a nice ledge near the bridge that is out of sight and hard to climb to. We stashed a bit of stuff there with no trouble.

BB

Brian,

I hope you don't mind me asking, what was your time last year for the double? Did you both get after it or take it "easy"?

David : I went down BA 3 years ago at 5:00am and did not meet any mule trains, hit Phantom just before 7:30am

We cruised it! There was 3 of us(myself, Stephanie and out friend Tracie). It took us 16 hours car to car. That included a lengthy, shoes off lunch break at the North Rim as well as a lengthy stop at Phantom on the way back. Likely 2 hours of down time between those two rests alone.

The three of us all felt like we could have done more like 12 hours if we were in a hurry. The Rae Lakes Loop took Joshua and I a little over 11 hours this past fall.....I'd be really happy to do something similar on the R2R2R but I'm not too attached to going fast. If the scene at the North Rim begs relaxation.....I'll happily lay in the pines for awhile:-)

Mules on BA roll out by 0730-0800, so youll have em beat if yer leavin at 0500 or so. For SK, the pack mules come UP at that time, so, again, no prob there, theyre going up while we'll be going down.

Im taking Kaibab the whole way. BA'a my summer trail. :)

torrey
on the BA do the mules start up at 7:30, down at 7:30, or both ?