SK-NK-SK is 5 miles shorter (42mi) than BA-NK-BA (47mi).
I think that 5 miles would be a 1.5 to 2 hour time difference for the average plodder.

Bright Angel - nice views, water, bathrooms, longer
South Kaibab - nicer views, no water, no bathrooms, mule trains, shorter

FYI, mule trains are mostly on the Bright Angel trail, not SK. Only some of the supply/maintenance trains use the SK; PR passenger trips all use BA up and down.

There are solar toilets at Cedar Ridge on SK.

South Kaibab makes sense to me if it clears us of having to contend with the mule trains in the AM.

@Art, what were your original plans and what have you done in the past?

still trying to decide which route to run.

Edited by asandh on 02/14/2012 08:40:54 MST.

my vote would be South Kaiba for the simple reason it's shorter :)

George Matthews passed away last Wednesday, November 30th, 2011. His life was cut short around 5:30pm EST after a quick 20 minute run before it got dark.

He was a GREAT father and lived his life for everyone else. He enjoyed talking about his passion (backpacking and running) with everyone on Backpacking Light and I wanted to let you all know.

He will be missed...




Sincerely,

Chad M. , George's Son

Edited by gmatthews on 12/08/2011 06:48:58 MST.

I'm in shock.
While I never met George in person, I felt I was coming to know him online, and was looking forward to running with him at the Grand Canyon.
We'll miss you George.

Art

Chad- so sorry to hear about your loss. I also was very much looking forward to meeting your Dad this April. I know he was very passionate about his hiking and running- he'll certainly be missed here.

Please accept my condolences.

Mike Moore

Chad,

Like Art, I'm in shock. I always enjoyed, through his posts here, your father's sense of humor and good will toward his fellow BPLers. He will certainly be sorely missed.

Even through the filter of our discussion boards, we all knew George was a great guy. So sorry to hear this. And thanks for posting the great picture of him.

George Matthews is a testament, one of the best examples here, to the quality people and relationships that exist here within BPL. I cannot help but envy those that new him personally or crossed paths with him out on the trail or in his community, he sure seemed like a genuinely great individual, that much I know just in the brief conversations through this message board. I could always read a George post and learn something new, or be challenged, motivated, and encouraged. My heart goes out to the Matthews family and your deep loss, may you find peace in it all.

George will be missed in April and will undoubtedly be on the minds of all those that can make it.

After reading these posts it is very clear to me - although I was not fortunate enough to know him well - that George's enthusiasm for the outdoors, backpacking and trail running were contagious. As we delve into the canyon come April, I'll certainly do my best to channel that same sense of adventure that George shared with so many along his journey. My most sincere condolences to your family, Chad.

I am so sorry to hear about this. My condolences to your family Chad.

"Like Art, I'm in shock. I always enjoyed, through his posts here, your father's sense of humor and good will toward his fellow BPLers. He will certainly be sorely missed."

Add me to a list that will quickly grow long. I had a sense of your Dad from his posts that he was a gentle, caring person with a sly sense of humor and keen intellect. I had hoped to meet up with him at some point, but now that will have to wait a while. My condolences, Chad. BPL will not be the same without him.

Always a gentleman. I went to his profile looking for the big feet avatar and discovered that George had 52 reader reviews and 1843 posts. All positive and helpful and good- humored I'm sure. What a positive example.

George and Chad, May the peace of the Lord be always with you.

It looks like I've got a good deal on flights from Denver to Phoenix making this financially viable for me. Maybe we can all squeeze into a rental car to make the drive to the ditch cheaper? Maybe a warm up run in Sedona on the way ???!?

Just saw this and I could be really jazzed about it. I love GCNP trips, did BA-River-BA with my 11-year-old last summer, have done a few other trips to the River this century and more Rim-River-Rims (plus a R2R2R) back in the last century.

April is a GREAT time to dodge "mud season" in Alaska and a wonderful motivater for training all winter.

Meeting and hiking with some of you whackos would be cool, too.

But I'm a hiker, not a runner - at least for the last few decades. I've run/walked the NK-River-NK when I was half my age.

>"This will be done in the fashion of a run/hike and will likely be a 12-16 hour day"

So is the approach to run down, run the flattish parts and hike the uphills? If so, maybe there's a play where I leave (as I often do) at 2 am with a headlamp and you runner types catch up with me somewhere on the NK.

Or maybe I just suck it up and get some running in this winter. Hiking only, R2R2R was 19 hours years ago (that last 5,000' up was brutal) and I'm in much better shape now so maybe jogging some of it isn't that far off my normal game - hiking only, I'd now expect 16 hours. Definitely time for screws in the shoes if I'm running the snowy forest trails this winter.

And do you imagine this as a group of 6-8 running/hiking together? Or groups of 2-3 pairing off by their preferred speeds?

Thanks! -David Thomas Kenai, Alaska

can't speak for the others, but some of these guys compete in ultra events- I'm not one of those guys :)

I'm trying my best to get into decent shape where I can run a fair share of the trail (but realizing a fair share will probably be walked)

my guess is there will mixture of groupings based on condition, time spent gawking, photo taking, etc :)

you can get a little insight in our training thread, you'll see some folks who are already very conditioned (already running 40+ miles a week) and some like me not so much

I'd say go for it, get some conditioning going now and assess where your at come April, worse case scenario you'll be in decent shape even if you don't end up going- that's the attitude I'm taking

I doubt very much we will all try to do the R2R2R as a single group.
too much variation in condtioning, experience, and desire.
actually I'm not even sure everyone is planning on a full R2R2R.
also not even sure all the R2R2R ers will be doing the same version.
BA-NK-BA
SK-NK-SK
SK-NK-BA
several options

yes it will pretty much be run the downhills, walk the uphills, do whatever feels best on the flats. I don't think there are very many really fast people on the list.
I'm sure not fast.

David which version did you do 19 hours ?
you sound like you'll do fine.

Mike: Thanks for your thoughts.

Worst case is actually: I'm out on a training run some night in Kenai and get stomped by a moose.

Best case: With increasing sunspot activity, we finally get some auroras again because being outside after dark is the best way notice/see them. And I get enough miles in to make a PR. And feel decent afterwards.

And don't discount the devoted hiker - that Faster Known Time link reported the runners getting passed by a hiker on the uphill. I try to be that kind of hiker.

I guess you've got some sub-zero and white stuff constraints on your training, too, huh?

> "I'd say go for it, get some conditioning going now and assess where your at come April, worse case scenario you'll be in decent shape even if you don't end up going- that's the attitude I'm taking"

I'd say go for it, get as much conditioning as you can and GO regardless. Maybe you (and I?) just have a nice easy dayhike to the River and back and hand the crazy runners some turkey wraps or sushi or goo or ice cream sandwiches on their way up.

And maybe you get to the River feeling so good, you keep going and get halfway up the other side. I've had days where things just felt right and I kept going.