Forum Index » Hiking Partners / Group Trip Announcements » Grand Canyon- Double Crossing aka "Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim"- BPL Group Run


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Dan Hewins
(hewinsd) - F

Locale: Chihuahuan Desert
Re: R2R2R on 11/17/2011 19:30:53 MST Print View

Eugene mentioned this this adventure to me while on one of our recent runs -- it sounded like an opportunity that I could not pass up. After a few days of (re)visiting R2R2R reports and the like, I decided that this was, in fact, an opportunity I didn't want to pass up. I look forward to meeting everyone and enjoying the fruits of our running. Train well.

Edited by hewinsd on 11/17/2011 19:33:18 MST.

Dan Hewins
(hewinsd) - F

Locale: Chihuahuan Desert
stoking the R2R2R fire... on 11/18/2011 21:42:34 MST Print View

Recently, a crew of ultra-runners from Colorado went down to run a R2R2R. On this day, Dakota Jones broke Dave Mackey's record becoming the current R2R2R 'FKT' king. Meanwhile, the rest of the group, including the ultra-accomplished Brendan Trimboli, by all accounts had stellar runs. Here is a recent post from Brendan w/ video from their day. Enjoy!

Run Video

edit:

Post run report w/some pics

Edited by hewinsd on 11/19/2011 15:29:57 MST.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
welcome aboard on 11/19/2011 08:26:22 MST Print View

Dan- welcome aboard, hope to meet you in the spring

question on water- I have a two liter bladder that I can use in my Talon 5.5 or 11 (undecided on which one, I'm a little bit of a boy scout so leaning towards the 11 :)), should I be investing in a 3 liter?

also I'm guessing we'd get started before sunup to get a good start?

lodging- besides what's available right at the South Rim, is there any towns remotely close?

as much as I like camping, thinking a motel bed might be nice for this adventure :)

Mike

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: welcome aboard on 11/19/2011 09:22:19 MST Print View

South Rim accommodations :

the village of Tusayan is 1 mile from south rim entrance and about 7 miles from the actual south rim. here is a list of hotels.
Tusayan Hotels

the south rim has a large campground only a couple miles from the rim. it has hot showers and a laundramat.
south rim campgrounds


...

Edited by asandh on 02/14/2012 08:38:53 MST.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
times/lodging on 11/19/2011 16:13:54 MST Print View

Art- sounds good, an early start gives me at least some chance of making it back w/ a little daylight (probably not much though! :))

looks like 13 hours of daylight for mid April

11 miles I think I'd be fine w/ 2 liters, we'll see I am after all the boy scout type

thanks for the link for the lodging

Mike

Dan Hewins
(hewinsd) - F

Locale: Chihuahuan Desert
water on 11/19/2011 16:23:23 MST Print View

Thanks, Mike. I am looking forward to joining the festivities.

From what I have read a lot of people go down with a 64oz or 2L race vest type pack (Nathan HPL 20 or Ulitmate Direction Wasp seem popular) and do alright. I've also seen a few people double fisting handhelds and using a pack for clothes/food etc...

It is probably a good idea to figure out where water is and is not available before we go down. According to Skurka's report that Eugene posted it's possible a few sources may still be shut off.

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: water packs on 11/20/2011 15:23:51 MST Print View

http://www.ultimatedirection.com/p-558-wasp.aspx?category=packs

$82 on sale for $57

http://www.rei.com/product/767745/nathan-hpl-020-race-hydration-vest-70-oz

$85

I'm looking at these (what Dan said he sees a lot of people use)

Dan Hewins
(hewinsd) - F

Locale: Chihuahuan Desert
Re: water packs on 11/20/2011 17:08:01 MST Print View

I think the biggest difference between these packs is weight, which translates into storage capacity. Dry the Nathan is 6oz, while the UD is 1lb 5oz. Storage wise they hold 100 cuin versus 390cuin respectively. Although I have never run with a Nathan pack, I have heard the bladder when full almost completely fills the main compartment (probably ok when your run is supported). I have a UD Wasp and can say that it has ample storage space for whatever kind of food/gels a windshell/gloves/headlamp. Both packs seem to have a good amount of up front storage for whatever you may need on the fly. Both packs are 'race vests' and probably ride similarly (high and tight).

here's a less expensive option for the Nathan: $69.95/free 2-day and return ship.
http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpage-NHPL020.html

[edit] I don't have one to weigh, but Nathan seems to have understated the weight of their pack (see below). I will say from seeing the two in person - I'd still guess that the Nathan is quite a bit lighter than the Ultimate Direction Wasp. Not sure that'd matter much on this trip where we'll need to carry enough to get us through the day.

Edited by hewinsd on 11/20/2011 22:26:21 MST.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: water packs on 11/20/2011 17:28:04 MST Print View

discussion of water/running packs for Grand Canyon moved to this new thread so the "Trip Thread" doesn't wander too much.

water/running packs

Edited by asandh on 11/21/2011 08:25:46 MST.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
stuff your face on 11/22/2011 09:06:29 MST Print View

I thought I would give this thread a friendly BUMP before Thanksgiving, as a reminder to not bury yourself in gravy over the week.

I hope everyone is getting in some quality runs and enjoying the Fall weather, well except Mike, he's probably buried in MT in snow and ice running inside the basement on a treadmill. ;-)

4 1/2 months out, more or less, keep the goal close to you.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Stuff your face on 11/22/2011 11:01:19 MST Print View

I plan on running at least 15 miles of mountain on Thanksgiving morning. That, combined with no breakfast and piling up my dinner and desert plates but NOT going back for any seconds should keep me calorie-neutral...

Started my 18 week training countdown for the Los Angeles Marathon yesterday. Trying to make a concerted effort to shed some weight, drop my mile times, and run a PR. After the marathon I'll switch into some even longer running for the R2R2R.

Stay tough my friends.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
snow on 11/22/2011 12:52:55 MST Print View

yup- it's running in the snow for me :) it actually isn't too bad, the snow acts as somewhat of cushion, so it's pretty comfy to run on, I'll end up w/ some machine screws pretty soon as it definitely slick at times

my run yesterday evening was kind of cool as there wasn't a single human track anywhere- I followed a fresh coyote track for ~ 5 miles, flushed some sharptail grouse on top of the ridge and then jumped 8 mule deer in the creek bottom (where I took a little spill after miscalculating my jump :) and ended up w/ one wet foot)

I'm getting my weekly running base into that 15-20 mile range so that I can jump into the program I posted earlier. I am concerned about very cold weather though, we had a couple of days w/ below 0 already, but are now enjoying temps into the 40's for highs. I may end looking into some small race style snowshoes before it's all said and done too.

Mike

. ..
(dgowler)
Re: snow on 11/22/2011 13:09:08 MST Print View

It was well below -10F until yesterday way up here north of the 49th. I've been on the rowing machine a lot. The cold has broke for now so I'll be out to take advantage tonight. This is going to be an interesting winter...

Mike - do the machine screws work for you? Running in the dead of winter is new to me. I think I'm in for a lot of trial and error. Any help would be appreciated. What works for you as far as trying to keep your feet warm and the rubber side down?

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: stuff your face on 11/22/2011 13:23:48 MST Print View

Happy Thanksgiving to all. Will definitely get in a pre-bird run. Don't want to look like one of those Macy's baloons.

macys ballons

Four day weekend for me. I'm going for my distance/time record on Friday or Saturday. Can't believe the tracking says both my shipments of hpl and bottles will be here tomorrow. How about that for free shipping.

Mike - be careful in that snow!

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
snow on 11/22/2011 15:51:53 MST Print View

Devon- I haven't tried the machine screws yet, I'll let you know how they work when I get them in

I'm also looking at these as a possibility- http://www.sportiva.com/products/footwear/mountain-running/crossover- has a built in gaiter and gore-tex lined

can also use their hobnails w/ them

http://www.sportiva.com/products/footwear/accessories/at-hobnail-kit

I haven't experienced cold feet yet, though the temps I've run in have only been down into the 20's- I am wearing heavier socks though- Darn Tough 1/4 full cushion

a gore shoe should help w/ the cold, really cold I'm thinking a thin neoprene sock over a thin wool sock

definitely going to be challenging :)

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
snow and ice running on 11/22/2011 16:06:48 MST Print View

If you want to send a little pow down here that would be most appreciated Mike. We're having a mild fall, "chilly" mornings and cool days, sunshine as usual. Yesterday we got a little bit of that wet stuff falling out of the sky, I had my running shoes and headlamp ready as soon as I got off work, couldn't pass up tacky desert trail and a windy run up my favorite climbing route.

Mike, the only downside to using sheet metal screws for ice traction is you basically render that pair useless once spring comes around and things melt off, but with all the abuse they'll be getting over the next few months I imagine they'll be toast before then.

I have 0 experience running in cold and snow, my hat is off to you for planning out how to keep at it during the dark months. Snowshoeing seems like an excellent option, you might not get the mileage you're looking for but definitely take a crazy cardio beating.

Stephan Doyle
(StephanCal)
Throwing my name in on 11/22/2011 17:49:45 MST Print View

Hi fellas,

I've been watching this thread since its inception, and have come to realize that I am crazy enough to try this. The big question for me is fitness and injury - I'm not sure how my hip might hold up during ultra training. My new training program will begin in earnest December 1 after a long break to heal all my sore spots from my last long bout of training. I should know by February if this would be suicide for me or if my body will, in fact, hold up.

Stoked!

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: snow and ice running on 11/22/2011 18:10:54 MST Print View

Eugene- agreed on the shoes, my shoes are already on the down turn (have a shiny new pair waiting patiently in a box :) ) so no biggie; the Crossovers it appears the studs are removable/reinstallable

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: "Grand Canyon- Double Crossing aka "Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim"- BPL Group Run" on 11/30/2011 07:44:10 MST Print View

any thoughts on South Kaibab vs Bright Angel- hear that SK is more scenic?? it's a shorter route, but steeper

I guess one other possible option (would require a little shuttle) is descend one and ascend the other?????

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
South Kaibab vs. Bright Angel- R2R2R on 11/30/2011 08:29:57 MST Print View

I've done South Kaibab to North Kaibab to South Kaibab, mainly becasue I didn't want to deal with a shuttle.
I've never done Bright Angel.

I know most runners seem to like going down South K. and then back up Bright Angel at the South Rim. There's no water on South Kaibab and there is on Bright Angel, but not a big deal to me, it's only ~7 miles from river to rim either way.

Personally, I'd prefer South Kaibab round trip just because it's what I know. Yes, it's pretty steep (but what isn't out there?), but to me it's a known known, making it easier to get my head around. Bright Angel, for me, is currently a known unknown...


"We know there are known knowns: there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns: that is to say we know there are things we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know." —Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld

Edited by xnomanx on 11/30/2011 08:31:23 MST.