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Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: Torn Meniscus Treated with Stem Cell Prolotherapy on 03/12/2012 23:36:11 MDT Print View

I spent about 2 hours updating my "shopping for a good prolotherapist" paper, linked to at my Google Profile tonight.

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Torn Meniscus Treated with Stem Cell Prolotherapy on 03/13/2012 04:05:46 MDT Print View

Roliegh,
Several hospitals are getting the seperation equipment in their labs. My brother just had some damaged foot cartilage (from a construction accident) done. He is healing well after three weeks. The pain while walking is reduced to below pre-treament levels already and he is cursing at his crutches...a good sign.
Thanks,
jdm

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: Torn Meniscus Treated with Stem Cell Prolotherapy on 03/13/2012 07:07:13 MDT Print View

Please elaborate, James, by "separation equipment". Are you talking about putting one's bone marrow in a centrifuge, isolating the stem cells, culturing it and letting it grow/multiply exponentially, then later re-inserting it in the donor's body? (The process is never done in one day.)

There are two main styles of Stem Cell Prolotherapy, the one described above, and the much more simpler, affordable one, where the donated bone marrow (typically from either the tibia or hip) is what is injected immediately back into the injured part (except that the syringe needle used to do the extraction is disposed of (the syringe is kept, but a brand new, sterile needle is used for the re-injection in the injured part of the body).

Caring Medical used to do the more elaborate procedure but very quickly switched to the simpler, much more affordable procedure.

The FDA is making it very risky to do the isolation/culture method in the USA. See these 3 articles for more on this.

Our Patient\'s Autologous Stem Cells are Drugs: The FDA Moving down a Dangerous Slippery Slope

Stem Cells and the Lawsuit That May Shape Our Medical Future

Stem Cells, FDA, and the Edge of Science: Three Expert Viewpoints

One of Regenexx's procedures they do in the Cayman Islands (Regenexx-C-(Cultured)).

By the way, Regenexx's has a fantastically interesting, free e-book, all are recommended to download and read. Free E-book: Orthopedics 2.0-How Regenerative Medicine will Create the Next Generation of Less Invasive Orthopedics - by Dr. Chris Centeno, M.D.

http://www.regenexx.com/regenexx-procedures-family/2010/09/dr-centenos-new-book-on-regenerative-orthopedics/

Edited by marti124 on 03/13/2012 07:08:29 MDT.

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Re: Torn Meniscus Treated with Stem Cell Prolotherapy on 03/13/2012 12:33:05 MDT Print View

Roleigh, I believe it was a variation of the first technique you mention. The seperation took about 2 hours. After marrow extraction (a matter of less than a half hour) he waited and was then reinjected in a few (not sure how many) areas.There was no regrowth cycle; I am not sure how a short duration seperation could result in any growth cycle. The ammount of marrow removed was higher, he is supposed to be carefull about any nasty wounds for about 6-12mos. I did not ask hoy many locations were used, but he was complaining about the pain of the procedure, apparently they could not use local anesthetics, probably wouldn't work on bone penetrations all that well, anyway. Last I talked to him he was doing fine with the whole thing. His foot was sort of crushed (lots of damaged cartlidge, but, no broken bones.) He has been wearing orthotic liners for several years.

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: Torn Meniscus Treated with Stem Cell Prolotherapy on 03/13/2012 13:00:01 MDT Print View

Thanks James. Going back to the Regenexx's page, I see there are multiple variations of same-day procedures.

http://www.regenexx.com/regenexx-procedures-family/compare-regenexx-procedures/

I took a pain medication an hour before the procedure but even then the actual sucking out of the bone marrow is the most painful part of the whole procedure. I was holding two rubber balls as hard as I could and even then I muttered "ouch". The drilling into the bone was almost instantly and didn't hurt at all. It was the extraction of the 1/3rd ounce of bone marrow. The actual prolotherapy injections did not hurt much at all. The doc said the extraction of the bone marrow is what bothers everyone.

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: Torn Meniscus Treated with Stem Cell Prolotherapy on 03/15/2012 19:04:18 MDT Print View

A nice blog by a professional baseball player,C.J. Nitkowski, who got back into the game because of using stem cell prolotherapy is covered here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/the_bonus/08/02/nitkowski/index.html

http://www.cjbaseball.com/stem-cell-blog.htm

I stumbled across this after reading about the more famous case of a baseball pitcher who got Stem Cell Prolotherapy (and afterwards could pitch faster than before his injury).

http://www.regenexx.com/tag/bartolo-colon-stem-cell/

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/01/get-used-to-bartolo-colon-style-stem-cell-procedures-because-theyre-going-to-explode-in-popularity/

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/6831546-574/yankees-benefitting-from-bartolo-colon-after-mysterious-stem-cell-surgery.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703730804576321713447010904.html

I agree that it's going to be the professional sports personalities who take this course of medical care versus traditional orthopedic surgery who are going to cause more and more lay sports enthusiasts (if you can call backpacking a sports) to do likewise. It won't be the Orthopedic industry leading the way, they have too much money to lose as the newer approach is far simpler, non-surgical, and requires fewer medical professionals/equipment involved.

Rusty Beaver
(rustyb) - F

Locale: Presence
Re: Re: Torn Meniscus Treated with Stem Cell Prolotherapy on 03/15/2012 19:51:01 MDT Print View

Thanks for all the info, Roleigh. I was feeling a sense of excitement....until you mentioned "drilling into the bone". Wowza! Makes me cringe to think about it. Regardless, thanks again...and please, keep us updated. I would also love to hear about other's experience with meniscul issues, prolotherapy or not.

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: Torn Meniscus Treated with Stem Cell Prolotherapy on 03/16/2012 07:30:36 MDT Print View

Rusty, I 100% understand your feeling. It's not anywhere as bad as it sounds. The doc uses what looks like a toy plastic pistol (with a cone pointy-end). You are first given a salve that numbs the nerves on the leg (feels like vaseline), then in a split second that drill is inside your bone (it's more like a nail gun, it just seems to pop through the bone). No pain is felt, you're amazed it's done so fast. But then the syringe is put through the hole and the doc then sucks out 1/3rd ounce of bone marrow, you feel the suction as a strong bruising effect. That is the only painful part of the whole procedure where it is hard to be quiet. One hour before the procedure, I do take medication to make the procedure more tolerable. I walk out of the procedure and spend most of the day walking afterwards (due to the O'hara airport, etc). No problem, etc. But I do take the pain medication every 6 hours, the last dose being at night. The next day I didn't need any medication or anything. Although after my first session I did need medication that second day. But never the third day.

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: Torn Meniscus Treated with Stem Cell Prolotherapy on 04/01/2012 13:23:06 MDT Print View

Today, I have done a major research update in my web document (which I continually keep updated), entitled "Shopping for a good prolotherapist" located here.

For those considering a Prolotherapist, you'll definitely want to read this document. You won't find any other advice document that goes into this much probing detail.