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Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 20:29:15 MDT Print View

Anybody want to bet that the writers for Saturday Night Live will have a great comedy skit, coming from today's events in Libya?

--B.G.--

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 20:47:37 MDT Print View

Maybe you have to wait a little while before making comedy about someone being killed?

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 20:52:51 MDT Print View

Muammar Gaddafi, the end of an error.

Edited by jshann on 10/20/2011 22:09:52 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 20:53:07 MDT Print View

I don't know. Saturday Night Live tends to jump directly into the fire, and political correctness isn't in their vocabulary.

Unfortunately, I will be in the mountains, so I will miss it one way or the other.

--B.G.--

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 20:54:32 MDT Print View

Jerry -- good thought, but I doubt SNL will hold back. Not for Gadhafi anyway.

Like everyone else, I wish the Libyans the best. It will be interesting to see how that country will handle "peace".

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 21:35:00 MDT Print View

I'm not going to make any comments or argue with anyone here. However, I do urge everyone to learn a little more about who Gadaffi was and what he did for Libya and Africa.

Here is a little video about what he did

Please make up your own mind about who he was and what he did. I just think it is important to go beyond the rhetoric and look at facts.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 22:04:51 MDT Print View

Miguel, there are facts and then there are facts.

I watched that video, and I couldn't find the part about Gadaffi commanding the attack on Pan Am Flight 103. I couldn't find the part about him stockpiling the chemical weapons in the desert. I must have missed those parts.

I think you are going to have trouble trying to sell that.

--B.G.--

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 22:20:57 MDT Print View

Miguel:

After 40 years in power, it is true that Gadhafi did a lot to modernize his country -- building up education and infrastructure and all that. However, in my view, there are also three strikes against him:

1. He was an autocrat, and not an enlightened one. Indeed, he struck many as both bizarre and corrupt.
2. It is not that hard to modernize with all that oil money... one could argue that much more could have been achieved in forty years (compare him with another autocrat Lee Kwan Yew of Singapore and Qadhafi pales immeasurably)
3. Pan Am 103

Finally, the way he held on to the bitterest end was ruthless, short and simple.

I'm glad he's out. My only beef is that I'd rather see a slower but more grass roots evolution to change -- versus one both egged on and assisted by Western military might. Now, we have a near political vacuum. Maybe the Transitional Council is comprised of the wise and peaceful, but I have my doubts. Just as with Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, etc.... I don't think the West much cares about messy and potentially long drawn out consequences. It just wants its enemies destroyed ASAP... Libyans may well have years of struggles ahead of them, but unless the West is adversely affected, Libya will soon fade away from our media... and our attention.

Edited by ben2world on 10/20/2011 22:33:23 MDT.

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 22:24:23 MDT Print View

Miguel,

Thanks for the video. Certainly gives a different view of the man.

I am not informed enough to put the viewpoint of the video in perspective with the obviously different view I get on the news.

Your post got my attention and I'll keep it in mind as I follow the news.

Daryl

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 22:34:33 MDT Print View

Bob, as I said, find the information. Learn more about what really happened with the Pan Am 103 events. Learn what happened after the trials. (this is very important) I have spent many years learning about Gaddhafi. It is not my role to do the research for you. If you just blindly take in every headline news item without looking into the background, how are you going to know what really went on? The video I linked to, as I said, is only a little example of the good he did. How much do you know about him? So the headlines say, "Gaddhafi is a monster." The leaders and media did exactly the same thing with the information about the WMD's concerning Iraq and about Hussein (including using his first name in news referrals... something not done when talking about heads of state). Nothing was found. Doesn't that tell you something about the information we are getting?

Yes, I know I'm going to have trouble selling this, in the same way I had trouble selling my call to people to think before supporting the Afghan and Iraq wars. No one listened then and no one is going to listen now. I know it. That's why I am not going to argue with anyone about what they want to think. I don't think I can change any minds. All I'm saying to all of you is look around, with suspended judgement, for other information about all this, then make up your minds.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 22:51:05 MDT Print View

That's all we need, another conspiracy theorist.

--B.G.--

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 23:16:43 MDT Print View

Thanks, Bob! I love it when I take the time to make a thoughtful response and all I get in return is disdain! Spice of life!

Oh well. I didn't expect anything else, so no worries.

Joseph Reeves
(Umnak)

Locale: Southeast Alaska
re:The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 23:42:09 MDT Print View

Miguel's comment, "learn a little more about who Gadaffi was and what he did for Libya and Africa." brings out an important point. Gadaffi funded the Liberian and Sierra Leonian thugs who tore apart two countries, raped thousands of little girls, tore the limbs from farmers and killed two of my friends outside of Kabala. He also supported other "rebels" in West Africa and the Sahara. Read the papers out of Freetown today as they celebrate his death.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 23:46:00 MDT Print View

It's weird that Gadaffi had an obsession with Condoleeza Rice

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/20/2011 23:55:19 MDT Print View

"Condoleeza Rice"

I don't know. I think she is one smart gal. We could use a few more like her in government.

--B.G.--

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Terrorists on 10/21/2011 00:05:00 MDT Print View

And don't forget Gaddafi was responsible for the deaths of many UK soldiers and citizens. His money paid for a lot of the IRA's weapons and bombs. Probably as much money as the IRA received from the US?

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/21/2011 02:18:33 MDT Print View

There you go. Now a little more information comes out.

I never told anyone here how I felt about him as a man or a leader. And I'm still not saying.

Did he also do destructive, bad things? Yes.

Any worse than others? No.

If the measurement of the destructive things and funding of "terror" a leader has done are the denominations to judge Gadhaffi, then one needs to seriously also look at Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan..., Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown..., Putin, Mao, Begin etc., etc. But of course everyone is going to discount them... they aren't "terrorists" and it's perfectly okay to look away from the awful things they have done. It is okay to simply go into a country one doesn't agree with, invade it, and murder the leader (Gadhaffi or Hussein, or who have you) without a trial, but suggest the same thing for one of the leaders above and I am a "conspiracy kook" or a "supporter of terrorism" or "anti-"freedom"" or "woefully uninformed". The only difference between Gadhaffi and the above leaders is that he defied the above leaders and nations that paint him as somehow an inhuman "monster". May I then paint the leaders above, especially Bush and Putin and Mao as equally inhuman "monsters" then? I guess the answer will be that Putin and Mao are okay, but Bush is off bounds?

Probably I'm wasting my time making a statement of any kind here. Perhaps. But I'm not saying any of this because I love terrorism or leaders who murder people. I'm saying it because I sincerely feel it is important to be fair and balanced when reporting the news and when talking about someone. Demonization is a process of lying about someone and intentionally making a human being to be more (or less, depending on how you look at it) than a human being. That's not the truth. It's propaganda. It goes against everything that people who believe in "freedom", "democracy", "equality", and "justice" claim are the justifications for their societies.

Craig Savage
(tremelo) - F

Locale: San Jacinto Mountains
Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/21/2011 08:31:30 MDT Print View

then one needs to seriously also look at Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan..., Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown..., Putin, Mao, Begin etc., etc. But of course everyone is going to discount them... they aren't "terrorists" and it's perfectly okay to look away from the awful things they have done.

especially enjoyable is the Reagan thing, holy wow. Among other stuff, his support for Jonas Savimbi was harsh. Savimbi blew up a local Red Cross prosthetic factory in order for his people to fear the landmines riddled across the country. Reagan calling him "the Abe Lincoln of Angola" seems to paint the picture

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: The events of Oct. 20 in Libya on 10/21/2011 08:34:16 MDT Print View

"I don't know. I think she is one smart gal. We could use a few more like her in government."

You got to be kidding!!!

She was a weak Secretary of State easily manipulated by the right wingers

And just looking at her, she's creepy

And it's even more creepy that Gadaffi was obsessed with her

Terry Trimble
(socal-nomad) - F

Locale: North San Diego county
SNL and Gaddafi jeans fake ad on 10/21/2011 08:42:04 MDT Print View

SNL will show Gaddafi greatest achievements and his greatest achievement was running the Gaddafi fashion empire and how he became a millionaire with the sales of Gaddafi jeans. And promotions of the Gaddafi look.
SNL did parody commercial with the original cast of SNL about Gaddafi jeans around the late 70's and early 80's.
Terry