Golite Jam Pad Support
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Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Golite Jam Pad Support on 10/21/2011 11:47:12 MDT Print View

Kevin, to get to the gist of it, your original question shows a general lack of initiative and willingness to experiment. The nature of the question tells me that you don't have the wherewithal to load a frameless pack properly once you get past the rather simple problem of pulling the pad out and putting the folded RidgeRest in. It seems you had to bring it to the forum to validate it before just trying it on your own. I wonder how you will do in the backcountry (or life) if you can't work through such simple things with your gear.

In other words, it was a dumbass question in the first place.

Kevin Harper
(kevinharper2) - F

Locale: Southwest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Golite Jam Pad Support on 10/21/2011 12:05:29 MDT Print View

Sorry for asking such a dumb ass question. But I won't have a chance to use the pad until next Thursday, doing a rim to rim in the canyon and was asking other users of the Jam their thoughts to try and lighten my load a little. You win, I give up. And I am also guessing you are not in the corporate world using language like dumbass in a public forum. The moderator needs to calm you down.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Golite Jam Pad Support on 10/21/2011 13:44:57 MDT Print View

Whoa, guys! Cool it down already. You're just talking about a pack, fer cryin' out loud. Kevin, Dale is a very long time, respected member here. He really does know what he is talking about. This is the first time I've seen him get snappy about anything, so I'm surprised. Dale, it's obvious Kevin is still somewhat new to UL; he didn't even know what to call the CF pad cylinder. Perhaps allowing him to become familiar with what us longer term UL'ers now take for granted will eventually have him talking as smoothly about all this as we do? Remember when we cantankerous old farts didn't even know what silnylon was? (and I always spelled it "slynylon") now we're even eating the stuff for breakfast and wearing it as a fashion statement!

Edited by butuki on 10/21/2011 13:46:51 MDT.

William Chilton
(WilliamC3) - MLife

Locale: Antakya
Re: Golite Jam Pad Support on 10/21/2011 14:00:06 MDT Print View

I think Kevin overreacted to Dale's 1st post, and I can understand Dale's reaction to that. However, it makes me uneasy that Dale then seems to imply that Kevin is wrong to post a naive or inexperienced question. Is BPL to be only for initiates, or can us newbies ask help from the more experienced members, even if our questions come across as "dumbass" to those who know the answers?
Edit: Isn't it great how BPL's filter allows words like dumbass, but not g*y?

Edited by WilliamC3 on 10/21/2011 14:01:52 MDT.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Golite Jam Pad Support on 10/21/2011 14:26:26 MDT Print View

I didn't even go there until the personal things like "you sound like a bitter old man" came into the fray. I gave some advice he didn't like and was attacked for it, and that is WRONG. If he doesn't like my opinion I have no issue with that, but to go off on me for offering an alternate view of the issue is destructive to the forum concept. I wasn't at all derogatory in my initial response, just bringing my experience with frameless packs to the table. You have never seen me jump anyone outright for the quality of their questions and I've gently pointed a lot of newbies to information to get them on the right foot. I don't think I should get flamed because I point out that it might be the product that is the problem and his approach was trying to make a poor design work rather than taking it back and finding a more suitable product and WHY. His question was so elementally flawed that I assumed he did not grasp the concepts of weight transfer and loading frameless packs. Rest assured, he has left me NO DOUBT at this point!

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Golite Jam Pad Support on 10/21/2011 15:27:04 MDT Print View

Dale, yes, okay, okay. I understand your annoyance, and I, too, did a double take when I read that "bitter old man" bit, especially since your post didn't come across that way to me at all. But it is getting kind of silly when we start lobbing diapers at one another, wouldn't you say? Can't you guys just step outside for a bit, take a deep breath, remember how much fun backpacking and gear are, come back inside, and laugh it off? Neither of you come across as unfriendly or unsavory. And you know how easy it is to get sucked into that Internet crap throwing contest once you get started, right (I'm certainly really guilty of it!!! Been trying to learn something from it lately)?

But you know? That diaper image has me thinking...MYOG lower torso insulated vapor barrier out of cuben and Primaloft! We all should be wearing one!

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Golite Jam Pad Support on 10/21/2011 15:54:32 MDT Print View

Hey, I lobbed an empty diaper! I had a BBS back before that kid was born--- you don't even want to trade flames with me :) But if the "shoe" fits....

Doggone kids don't know which way to turn a screwdriver without a $%^&* instruction manual. Using "dumbass" was being kind. I feel like the father in the 70's Show!

Chris S
(csteutterman) - F

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Golite Jam Pad Support on 10/21/2011 16:26:53 MDT Print View

"....I point out that it might be the product that is the problem and his approach was trying to make a poor design work rather than taking it back and finding a more suitable product...."

I think the original question might have been misunderstood. It didn't sound like he was trying to fix a problem with a poorly designed pack, but rather just trying to save some weight by replacing the included pad with the ridgerest that he carries anyway. I don't really understand what is so dumb about asking that question to see how it has worked for people that may have already tried it....and based on the first several responses it appears that many people have tried it. Nevertheless, I think the response to Dale's first post was a bit of an overreaction....and then things quickly went downhill from there.


"This is the first time I've seen him get snappy about anything, so I'm surprised."

See recent thread on knots/triptease.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Golite Jam Pad Support on 10/21/2011 16:30:32 MDT Print View

See recent thread on knots/triptease.

Yeah, he was being a little nitwit too. That's two threads out of thousands. I'll take my averages :)

Chris S
(csteutterman) - F

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Golite Jam Pad Support on 10/21/2011 16:39:48 MDT Print View

I did find that thread pretty helpful. I just might end up replacing the bowline with a figure 8 from now on. Although I'm not sure I'm ready to give up the plastic doo-dads quite yet.

Kevin Harper
(kevinharper2) - F

Locale: Southwest
Dale on 10/21/2011 23:31:01 MDT Print View

I do apologies, I just got the Golite and wanted to hear others opinions on taking out the pad. I am going on a trip next week and won't have time to practice with it before hand. I have battled punctures with my air mats here in the Southwest and want to experiment with a simpler approach. I guess its really not much about the weight but how the pack performs with out the pad in the sleeve. my base weight has already been around 10lbs for a while so I will actually be adding about 3 more oz to the load. Again Dale, I am sorry to jump to quick conclusions about you and would welcome advice again in the future. I do ask more questions then give answers and I have been an UL backpacker for about 3 years now, it just seems like I am always trying to learn more.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Kevin on 10/21/2011 23:49:32 MDT Print View

I apologize too. I'm sorry to unload like that to you and the rest of the crew here. Best of luck with your pack.

David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
Re: Thanks Dale & Kevin on 10/22/2011 00:18:29 MDT Print View

That discussion was getting pretty dull. Thanks for livening things up a bit. I wouldn't get too concerned about Dale making fun of you. He does that to other people, including me. I think it means he like you, but I'm not sure, he may truly think you're a dumbass.

I 'd like to stay and stir the pot but I ought to get back to getting my pack ready for a little over nighter.

Kevin Harper
(kevinharper2) - F

Locale: Southwest
Re: Re: Thanks Dale & Kevin on 10/22/2011 00:30:01 MDT Print View

Have fun on the over-nighter, but I think once Dale reads my response on the knot tying thread he will definitely think I am a dumb ass.

By the way, I wouldn't have it any other way with out guys like Dale, over on backpacker.com we had a guy named The Nature Boy who was eventually kicked off. But since he left the forum it was never the same. I don't take any of this personal Dale, you definitely liven things up!

By the way, this one is actually my last post about Dale. I made a mistake in my previous comments.

David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
Rim to Rim on 10/22/2011 01:06:50 MDT Print View

Sounds like a fun and challenging hike to be doing with your son. I can see why you might be interested in getting your pack dialed. I did a five day wilderness hike with my daughter in August and it was wonderful.

Terry Trimble
(socal-nomad) - F

Locale: North San Diego county
Golite Jam Pad Support on 10/22/2011 09:23:37 MDT Print View

Kevin,
You will notice when you pull out the Jam pad is not a rectangle it has wings at the bottom. The wings help transfer the load to the hips. This is what I would do it will save weight and make the pad more comfortable get a ridgerest long cut the end of the pad to the shape of the of the original Golite jam pad with wings insert in to sleeve.
Now cut the the part of the Ridgerest pad straight were you cut out the winged pack insert. Now you should be able use the unrolled ridgerest as a pack frame and stuff all your equipment in the pack. When you sleep at night use use the pack under your lower legs and feet in sleep on the unrolled pad.
You get amore comfortable back pad when your not hauling backpacking gear.
Terry