Looking for help, suggestions, criticism.

A little background: Lady and I are doing the JMT. I'm carrying the tarp and 75% of the food (yeah, I know. I'm a good dude). Since I am doing that (yup always a catch but a good one for me), I get a new sleeping bag and pack and we get to use a tarp instead of a tent.

(My apologies. The weights listed are from the websites. Hard to put it to a scale when I don't own it yet.)

1. Pack: GG Mariposa Plus (23.8oz) or G4 (17oz). Last thing to buy. Depends on the rest of the stuff we are taking. ANY other suggestions?

2. Sleeping bag: Marmot Arroyo 30F. Long. 1lb, 15oz. $269. I'm 6'1. Warm sleeper. Thinking about possibly a 40F bag which would be lighter and slightly easier on the wallet. ANY other suggestions? (PS. Not looking to spend $400 on a Nunatak or anything like that)

3. Tarp: GG SilTwinn (12ish oz) or GG SpinnTwinn (10ish oz). Need something for 2 people. Prefer the shape of these. ANY other suggestions?

4. Pad: Thermarest Z-Lite (10oz). Yes, I am one of the lucky ones that can sleep comfortably on a foam pad. IMHO, this thing rocks! $30. Made in 'Merica. ANY other suggestions?

Again, I am open to suggestions, heckling, trash talking, you name it. Of course, after I figure all of this out, I will be coming back for more for the rest of the gear we will be taking.

Thanks for the help.

Shameless plug here. I'm the lead moderator of the John Muir Trail Yahoo Group and we have 1240 members there and the best research material on the JMT in our file library and links. We have gear lists there and lots of people who do ultralight hiking of the JMT. Don't forget the mandatory bear canister issue. I recommend the Bearikade Expedition or Weekender depending upon how fast you can hike the long stretch from Muir Trail Ranch to Whitney Portal (if you are not taking advantages of resupplies at either Kearsarge Lake or Woods Creek via Packers).

We also have a JMT Crib sheet (prints out on one sheet of paper, back to back) of all the information you'd want on the trail (shuttle phone numbers, packer phone numbers, transportation options at each of the bail out points, etc., SAR phone numbers).

I do recommend you'll be able to sleep comfortably if it drops down to 25 F with some wind. I spend every summer for the last 12 years in the High Sierra and know the temps can range from 25 F with wind to 95 F during the day. I personally use a 20 F bag from Nunatakusa (I added 2 extra oz of fill when I had my bag built).

As for packs, you need a pack that can hold the bear canister. Lots of hikers use the 24 oz pack, http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/packs/Starlite.html , which is fully capable of containing the bear canister. It is the perfect pack to use with a Z-lite pad as the pad becomes the foam padding in the pack, I do recommend their external stays though which makes it 30 oz, but with the stays it's been tested comfortably to hold loads up to 35 pounds. Even ultralight, you're going to be loaded down leaving Muir Trail Ranch.

All the resupply strategies are detailed at the JMT group too. Plus permit reservation fallback options seeing how the odds are overwhelming you'll be denied your preferred permit reservation (the new lottery system has the JMT hikers competing with half-dome hikers).

WM Summerlite will save almost a pound for only a few dollars. also look at the Nunatak SubAlpinist. However neither of these bags will work for broad shoulder users
Go with the SpinnTwin. It is only $25 over your 150 budget.

The Nunatak is exactly what I said I didn't want. Fill weight is a lot lower. Yes, the actual bag is lighter than the Arroyo, yet it's also $130 more than the Arroyo. In comparison, I got my 0F Couloir for $40 more than a 35F Sub Alpinist. I'm sure the Nunatak bags are great, but not great enough to justify paying the price they are asking. =)

The Summerlite I am considering.

Appreciate the help.

Keep it coming.

Edited by rps76 on 10/16/2011 11:46:32 MDT.

Sorry for not being clearer, my point was on the temps it can get down to. A cheaper 20 F bag is the Ultralight by Western Mountaineering. You can get by with the Summerlite, I used it for two years but was very cold one night just south of Forrester Pass and swore I did not want to get that cold again (I was wearing everything inside that bag). The summer of 2011 saw Wanda Lake completely freeze overnight when we stayed there with it changing from water to about 1" of ice overnight. This was the night of August 9-10 and the photo is the morning of the 10th.

Check out hammock gear and jackRBetter quilts also a mld synthetic quilt would work well. I would highly recommend doing a myog quilt with 5 ounce climashield apex and momentum 90 would cost about 60$ and isn't to hard to sew

I wouldn't get the marmot arroyo. You should be able to find a higher quality bag for that price. If you like quilts, look at the JRB quilts. Much lighter and very high quality. Also, between now and next summer, there will likely be another 20% Western Mountaineering sale...

Mammoth Gear ( http://www.mammothgear.com/ ) -- they often carry a 20% off sale on Western Mountaineering. You can also have a perpetual watch on ebay for it too.

You might also want to consider looking at Zpacks.com and bearpawwd.com -- they can do tents with just enough draping of no-seeum netting (the floor will still floorless, but such a tarp with the no-seeum drape will protect you in those spots where the flies are bad. But if you're willing to dry-camp (plenty of places to do that, you might just do fine with only a tarp. My only concern would be with marmots bothering your gear.

Both cuben fiber tarp makers can do it with just tarp, tarp with drape, tarp combined with inner-net shield (making it double wall).

Several interesting ways to accomodate 2 or 3 people too. (bearpawwd.com makes 3 person and 4 person cuben fiber tents and tarps).

Lucky you! Getting the lady to come along on the JMT.
For your choice of backpack it is important to know how much food you will have to carry. I did the JMT this summer with my wife and our two daughters (9 and 13). Our daughters carried all their own gear, while my wife and I carried the food for them. Our daughters hike 10+ miles a day - so we took 19 dayys for the JMT with re-supplies roughly every 5 days. That meant that my wife and I needed to each carry 1o person days of food after each re-supply. Our bear canisters were the Bearikade Expedition. After trying several frameless backpacks with a fully loaded bear canister, we decided to use a pack with frame. Our choice was the Osprey Exos 58. At 2.5 lbs it is heavier than the packs you are looking at, but it allowed us to carry the required weight with no problems. Otherwise our gear was similar to your choices (WM Summerlite, Therma-a-Rest 3/4 RidgeRest, Polycryo groundsheet (we cowboy camped)).

Enjoy your trip,

Manfred

I will second the recommendation to go warmer with your bag. I have been on the JMT and surrounding area many times each summer and have seen it get very cold. Down to 17 F in September on one JMT trip. I alwasy took a 20 F bag, and later a 20 F quilt. (Arc Alpinist)

I'll echo what others have said. If you're comfortable using a quilt, it will help you save some good weight and it would fit in your price range. Check out Hammock Gear and Te-Wa for quilts if you're interested. I own quilts from both places and they're top notch. Just make sure you order it wide enough for your body type.

As for the pack, you need to really figure out how much total weight you'll be carrying as another poster mentioned. Carrying 75% of your wife's food could make the Mariposa Plus uncomfortable depending on the total weight. Also, will you have enough volume to fit it all - something else to consider. ULA makes some nice packs. The Ohm or Circuit could work for you.

Edited by catalyst81 on 10/16/2011 14:38:17 MDT.

I'm assuming you are talking about the Z Packs Hexamid Twin Tent w/Screen. If so, it is definitely out of the question. Mainly because of price. $400 is a lot, especially for what it is. Even though I've never used anything from Z Packs, I question the durability of the Hexamid.

The weight savings compared to a GG SpinnTwinn is definitely not worth spending an extra $200+.

I've considered a ULA pack but not until they can post actual volume measurements that are correct. I've read many comments in regards to the Catalyst being the smallest 75 liter pack they've ever seen. I understand that the volume they give is for all of the pockets, but from what I have seen in photo's and videos, there is NO WAY the main body of the Catalyst is 45 liters.

The Hexamid Twin Tarp tent is very durable. I've owned one for 2 years now and it handles the JMT just fine. My only recommendation is that if you carry the tent on the outside of your pack, that the tent sack is very protective. Cuben fiber is extremely strong (at the thickness level used) for stress/stretch pressure but not for sharp pointed objects. I once punctured a point on the tent by setting the pack down carelessly against pointy rocks (repair is easy though, just use ordinary housewrap sheathing tape, in the size of a half-dollar coin on both sides of the puncture. That tape works against cuben fiber better than anything else I've seen, never comes loose. Anyway after that one hike I had Joe Valesko (Zpacks owner) make a dyneema tent sack so I could continue to carry the tent on the outside and not worry about it.

Bearpaw Wilderness will make your tarp in silnylon or Cuben Fiber. His web page gives price quotes for either fabric too. (I bet Joe would too at Zpacks, just ask for a quote. He's worked with Silnylon for years and has the fabric in stock.)

Here is another picture of how cold it can get on August 8, 2010, at Forrester Pass treeline (south side)

This happened in 2009 to me and so in 2010 and 2011 I hiked with a 20F bag and much prefer to use a 20F bag now.

Edited by marti124 on 10/16/2011 15:10:17 MDT.

Roleigh, I didn't know you were a closet lightweight gear guy :) ! I don't want to have too much thread drift, but I have been looking at the Z-Packs Cuben tarp selections and am looking for first hand experience on the durability of the screen floor. Has it held up well and does it get tangled on itself when setting up? How quick are they to get set up? Z-Packs look like they use thinner cuben fiber than MLD, how does it seem to be holding up for you?

As far as a sleeping bag goes: I give my vote to the Western Mountaineering Summerlight. I have used this bag the last two summers on the JMT and it is a perfect balance of weight savings and keeping me just warm enough. I have woke up with frost on the shell of it and with my Patagonia Cap 2 top and bottoms on, and have been just fine at low and high altitudes.

I like the ULA packs, but until they wake up and build the main body a touch bigger to fit the Bearikade bear canisters without them poking into my back, I will not be looking at them as an option. I tried three different models last summer all the way up to the Circuit, and had the same problem. The Circuit worked better then the OHM and CDT with the bear can, but was way too much pack for what I needed volume-wise. And there are lighter options out there. Their customer service is top notch, and I hope they design a pack with the wider Bearikades in mind someday. I thought it might be the Ohm2, but all they did was beef up the belt and move the flex rod inside. The back panel looks like it is not as nice as well.

Robert, you must be confused about my gear preferences because the co-moderator is so old-style, heavy weight gear-inclined. I came to the JMT YahooGroup from BPL not the otherway around. Nothing closet minded about me.

Anyway, my current preference is akin to Ron Moak's about tarp tents. Do not have the insect netting integral to the tarp. If you want insect protection, have an inner net-tent. I sent my Hexamid Duo Tarptent with Insect Netting back to Joe to have him remove the Insect Netting (at my cost, it's my requested modification) and build one of the early prototype inner-net-shields for the Hexamid Duo tent. I will probably be one of the first 5 (but not the first) such owner of one.

Why? Because in a severe rain, the rain will run down the top of the tarp and run down the insect-netting and risks getting onto the groundcloth. Such happened July 2nd in the Catskills this year.

I find Joe's tent/tarp to be the best in protecting one from a prolonged severe rain storm, far better than silnylon. Almost zero misting effect. I think with the mod I'm having done (which is already stock-wise available for the Solo Hexamid and Solo Hexamid Plus (the 1.5 person size tent): http://www.zpacks.com/shelter/hexanet_plus.shtml and http://www.zpacks.com/shelter/hexanet_solo.shtml

Finishing the sentence, with the mod, I think I'll have one of the lightest double wall tents available, period, and very spacious. I should get mine back in about 3-4 weeks with the mod. Joe is a great guy to do business with.

He hiked the entire CDT with the Hexamid Solo before he started reproducing it and selling it to others. He knows how well it handles a prolonged hike.

Again, the best repair tape I've found for Cuben Fiber is ordinary Housewrap Sheathing Tape (bummer it only comes in white or red colors -- I get it in white from amazon.com )

My gear list on the JMT YG (same as that in my profile) shows me to be only lightweight not SUL. My goal for 2012 is to reduce my gear weight another 2 pounds.

Thanks for the info Roleigh. One good thing about the JMT is how you can be in a mosquito infested campsite, but around 8 - 9 PM they are gone, making a shelter with no bug netting or 'cowboy' camping pretty reasonable.

I'm more worried about marmots on the JMT than flies. To avoid the flies, just dry camp. Marmots can be quite aggressive in wanting to get to your gear. I prefer to have the netting up to separate my space from their space.

Interesting thread over at: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/travellers-advisories-safety-security-road/wild-animals-how-do-i-37327
on safety of tents versus bivy camping or sleeping without any covering in Africa. Seems like tents give you the edge with lions, hyenas, snakes but forget about elephants. Of the four, only snakes are on the JMT and other hikers have seen them on the trail and photographed them (including rattlers) but I have not in the 12 years I've been in the high sierras.

Edited by marti124 on 10/16/2011 18:53:31 MDT.

Marmots are like high altitude rats. Either they want to steal your food, and they will chew through anything to get the food, or else they will just chew up any gear with dried sweat in it. That includes parts of backpacks and warm shirts.

In many places they make a problem that is worse than black bears. At least a black bear is large enough that you can hear it walking around your tent at night. Marmots are pretty stealthy.

--B.G.--