A taut line hitch can sometimes be difficult to get as tight as using a line loc. Line locs are also lost easily, so you still should learn the knot in case you lose it.

Nothing wrong with using them. Don't be bullied or shamed by others into using what they want to shove down your throat ; ).

yea I can relate to that. I've got a buddy that I've climbed with multiple times, and every once in a while he would be like - how do you tie this figure eight again - hmmm.

But we learned to climb together and I went home and practiced tying the knots over and over again where he didn't, so it suck with me more because I really wanted to know them. I still do the same with basically every knot I learn. It may take a little practice to get it down especially to the point where it feels natural.

But I enjoy knowing different knots and being able to use them in different situations where others just aren't sure what to do. So practicing tying them is something I enjoy. I think everyone should obtain a little knot tying knowledge. Even if it takes some work getting there.

Bowlines, figure 8s, taut line hitches, water knots... these are a few good ones to know.

In regard to the OP. Both bowlines and figure 8s would work great and are easy to tie once you learn. They wont slip. Neither will some of the others that have been mentioned.

Just for the record, I know how to tie most of these knots. It was more a question about which knots hold well in Triptease; apparently many do, and for those that actually provided useful input, thanks again!

(Dale, you are having a bad coupla days apparently. Hope you have a better tomorrow.)

"But try adjusting one in a howling snow storm."

What percentage of backpackers are not only 4 season, but are willing to head out during a winter storm? My guess is that 95%+ are 3 season at most, with perhaps 75% limited to 1 season. Out of the remaining 5%, I would venture to guess that 95% wait for storms to pass first.

(That is, go out in glorious snow covered mountains under crystal clear blue skies. This activity is actually pretty popular in the Sierra, where x-country skiers come out in droves after a big dump.)

If you are in the very small minority that is willing/capable of dealing with winter storm conditions, then your choice of equipment could hardly be questioned. But that's the key - you have both knowledge & judgment regarding your specific environment. You use both to make critical decisions, with your comment about line-lok vs taught line evidence that you know what works best given those conditions.

But let's get back to the 75%; what is a base-line prerequisite of knowledge & judgment? Or is there one? I would suggest there is, just like there is in any active sport.

For any form of backpacking, UL or otherwise, I would include: knowing some basic knots, knowing how to light a fire, knowing how to read a map, knowing how to erect a tent/tarp/shelter, etc. In short, something every 13 yo kid in BSA learns.

I don't care if it's fishing, surfing, skiing, etc - one should assume the responsibility of "not being that guy". That means a little research, watching some video, asking 'how to' questions, etc.

This thread would have gone in a completely different direction if the OP had directly asked for some tips/directions on knots.

>>This thread would have gone in a completely different direction if the OP had directly asked for some tips/directions on knots.

He did. To wit:

"I was wondering what you all think the best knot for Triptease line is?"

The person you initially replied to was Eric.

I think everyone should know half a dozen or so useful knots. Whether an individual chooses to use knots or not on their tarp guylines doesn't affect me in the least and I'm hard-pressed to come up with a reason I should care.

Got to say... I'm with DaveT on this one.

Hi Hobbes

> but are willing to head out during a winter storm?
OK, good point, except!
In our country at least, we can have fine sunny weather in the morning and a howling storm an hour later. Yes, it can change inside of one hour. You can NOT predict the weather here in the mountains. I would imagine that happens in other places as well.

What that means is that our gear has to be able to handle the very bad conditions even if we are going out in very fine weather with a reasonable forecast. Knowing that this can happen and allowing for it is part of the 'base-line prerequisite of knowledge & judgment' which you rightly mention.

Are taut-line hitches part of the base-line? Well ... maybe not. I know many people simply have a solid loop at the end of their guy rope and they move the stake to adjust the tension. Done that myself plenty of times too.

Knowing how to use map and compass? Oh yes, you are dead right there! That is a base-line requirement in my book.

Cheers

"You can NOT predict the weather here in the mountains."

Don't you have a government weather service that does predictions?

Around here, I can get 10-day predictions with some moderate accuracy.

--B.G.--

.........

Edited by dwambaugh on 01/12/2013 17:19:51 MST.

lol @ weather predictions.

I went hiking in the northern sierras and the rangers station checked the weather for me, said it was going to be beautiful (around mid 20's at night) and perhaps a light mist.

I got up about 3/4 of the way up to our destination and we were hit by snow. We decided to make camp there for the night and it got down to 6 degrees, and threw powder/water on us all night. Oh, did I mention the HURRICANE FORCE WINDS? For some reason a storm just kind of appeared, snapped one of my buddies DAC tent poles, haha.

Unexpected weather, but it was still a very fun trip :)

"'You can NOT predict the weather here in the mountains.'

Don't you have a government weather service that does predictions?

Around here, I can get 10-day predictions with some moderate accuracy.

--B.G.--"


Not if your life depends on it. Consider the National Weather Service reports for Washington State: Seattle weather accuracy was about 75% last year; move up to Nooksack, at the base of Mount Baker and you get 67%; Forks (West Olympics at sea level) 70%; Deer Park (North Olympics) 65%; East Wenatchee (east end of Stevens Pass) 48% !!!

(see http://www.forecastadvisor.com/browse/)

The Olympics and Cascades are highly effected by jet stream shifts and there are significant rain shadow and convergence zones. SIngle day snowfall can vary by FEET in a 50 mile area, as can storm tracks and wind force.

Years ago I saw a chart on weather accuracy that varied from 100% (white) to single digits (black). The western US deserts were white and there were various shades of gray around the country to black in the Puget Sound region and the Gulf of Alaska. If you believe the weatherman in Seattle, I have a couple floating bridges that I will sell you cheap too ;)

Dale, I didn't make any claims about prediction accuracy in your area, did I?

--B.G.--

The Bowline and the Tautline Hitch are probably the best two knots for tent guylines, at least those are the two I use. You can carry this along as a reminder on how to tie them, if you forget.

Edited by Cephalotus on 10/15/2011 17:44:19 MDT.

Hi Bob

> Don't you have a government weather service that does predictions?
Yep, they predict, but only for about 5 days I think. And that is only for the lowlands.
As OPs have mentioned, in the mountains, 'things happen'.

We had made camp on a bright fine calm sunny day in autumn, and thought we would visit a nearby mountain hut. One hour later, on our way back, we were hit with 1 cm hail. Quite unpredicted.

I have some photos of our camp in the snow way up high in beautiful fine weather. During the night we had a howling gale with millimetre-size corn snow or mini-hail. Total white-out in the morning. Quite unpredicted.

We were camped just under a ridge in the snow, quite comfortably, one evening. The weather was sort-of average. During the night it suddenly got so hot I was sleeping on top of my quilt - in the snow. In the morning there was a lot of grass around us!

We came across an abandoned campsite up high but not too far from a road. Baby's nappies, raw vegetables, some gear, skins for skis, and other stuff scattered around. A couple with baby had been camped there in the snow in fine weather with their gear outside the tent when bad weather hit. They had got out as best they could.

We don't take a real lot of notice of the forecasts ... We just assume the worst.

Cheers

Edited by rcaffin on 10/16/2011 01:48:05 MDT.

Roger, I think you Aussies have the same problem with weather prediction that we have in the U.S.A. It's hard to predict anything with all of that hot air in the government.

--B.G.--

"I was wondering what you all think the best knot for Triptease line is? I want to be able to tie the cord on securely, including making loops that don't slide at the end for stakes."


In case you can't read and/or comprehend, these two OP sentences are asking what the best knot for Triptease line is, and asking about tying cord on securely, including in a non-sliding loop. Nowhere does it ask about adjustable knots (e.g. the much-storied tautline hitch) or imply that I (or others) don't know how to tie knots in rope. I think you should start a Gear (or perhaps Gear Chaff, if we can add that forum Addie?) entitled "Linelocks... for lame-ass wannabies?" if you wanna expectorate upon that. Weather reports? Just don't know.

Again, thanks to all the folks who provide helpful comments in response to the OP. Much appreciated!

Dale, you also are providing a helpful lesson in what I don't want to become when I grow up. So thanks too!

Carry on.

Edited by DaveT on 10/15/2011 19:37:49 MDT.

Dave, we might want to set the record straight. In your original posting, you said that this was for guylines. There are all sorts of ways that guylines get used with knots. However, a high percentage of those ways involve adjustable knots. That's how the adjustable knot discussion came around. There are ways with fixed knots as well, but then you generally want to have a plastic adjuster involved to deal with the tension. So, everybody here had a different way of looking at the issue, not just yours.

--B.G.--

Lets face it a bowline, regardless of effectiveness, is an ugly knot. What with that misshapen line sticking out all awkward like and all. On the other hand, a double figure eight seems like ostentatious overkill for a guy-line. A simple overhand knot? - may work fine but does it look lazy and uninspired? A perfection knot? -an attractive symmetry but is it too pretentious?

"There are all sorts of ways that guylines get used with knots. However, a high percentage of those ways involve adjustable knots."

I'm sort of confused. Could you explain a few of those ways? I haven't taken the guylines off my tarp/tent ever since the advent of line locs, and a combination of an overhand or figure 8 knot and a line loc has always sufficed quite nicely. As Roger C correctly observed, adjustable knots don't fare so well in icy conditions.

Tom, the original posting asked nothing at all about use in icy conditions.

If you read up a bit, some people are bypassing the use of plastic adjusters by using adjustable knots. There are different kinds of adjustable knots. Some people learn one adjustable knot and then stop right there. Others experiment with different adjustable knots until they find one that works for them. I hope that helps with your confusion.

--B.G.--