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Edited by dwambaugh on 01/12/2013 17:21:33 MST.

The new BPL. Even the "old timers" are getting in on the new marginal vibe.

Again, thanks to the folks who had actual helpful answers. Everyone else who wants to read lots into a simple question and somehow fashion it into crazy responses, I just dunno about ya.

Specifically, Dale, nah, not yuppie scum, I was thinking along the lines of crabby old f*ck. Unless someone hijacked your account, and then I'm sorry.

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Edited by dwambaugh on 01/12/2013 17:23:49 MST.

Hey Dave T- beside the entertainment value, a lot of us got good useful information out of this thread. In particular, the alpine butterfly knot that Terry G. suggested and Dale's suggestion of putting the tautline at the tarp loop end. Good stuff. So thanks for putting up with a little abuse on our behalf. Don't be expecting any slack on chaff though.

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Edited by dwambaugh on 01/12/2013 17:22:56 MST.

All this talk about growing a pair, guts and brains and personal initiative is upsetting to me. Besides I don't need any of those things, I have a button on my PLB.

"I sure wouldn't want to hike with someone who couldn't tie a few knots to stabilize a broken limb, let alone pitch a #$%^&* tarp properly."

I wouldn't want to hike with someone who yells, swears and berates me about little things like knots. You may actually be a crabby old guy. If you keep it up I am going to suggest your vicinity as the right place to retire on a bush-crafter forum.

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Edited by dwambaugh on 01/12/2013 17:24:33 MST.

"If you read up a bit, some people are bypassing the use of plastic adjusters by using adjustable knots."

I think I'd have had to dig pretty deep to uncover that little nugget, Bob, and once I did I'd have been hard pressed to derive any use from the information. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

"There are different kinds of adjustable knots. Some people learn one adjustable knot and then stop right there. Others experiment with different adjustable knots until they find one that works for them. I hope that helps with your confusion."

Actually, my question had to do with all those unspecified uses of guy lines that required adjustable knots, so I'm afraid I'm still confused. But thank you for your efforts to enlighten me.

BTW; I'm reasonably familiar with adjustable knots and, to this day, have found only one, the clove hitch, to be of much use to me. I consider the others to be mostly merit badge material. But that's just me: an unabashed KISS principle disciple to the bone.

Many, many years ago, and many thousands of miles away, I was a young man in the military. One summer, our commander had us form up a mountaineering school with primary focus on rappelling. As one of the instructors, my first class was how to tie knots, not not how to tie knots. However, I only needed to teach those knots that were applicable to a vertical rope experience.

So, I taught basics: square knot, granny knot, half-hitch, bowline, and a prussik. I suppose that a prussik may or may not be an adjustable knot, depending on how you look at it.

To this day, I believe that those knots are the only ones that I can tie without thinking. I have to think to tie a tautline and some others. If I am just setting up camp on a nice day, it doesn't matter. If I am out in the middle of a blizzard at 12,000 feet with the sun setting, then I may not have much brain power left, so I have to keep to just the knots that I can tie automatically.

I wonder if many of the thousands of my knot students can still tie anything after all of these many years. I guess knot.

--B.G.--

Great thread here.

Clove hitch is a good one.

A clove hitch holds better than I expected it to, also. I tried with Triptease, using it for both ends of one of my ridge line tie outs this evening; a clove hitch on the trekking pole tip that I stuck through the ridge line D-ring, and one on the stake.

Ray Jardine's Tarp Book Essential has a pretty good section on knots, including a clove hitch with a quick release. Craig Connally's book on mountaineering also has a good section on knots, though some might not work so well with line as thin as Triptease, even if their only failure is not coming undone easily.

I think the easiest, best and most obvious knot to use to make a fixed loop in triptease for attaching to the tent is the figure 8. The only reason to use a bowline for a knot here is if you would regularly want to tie and untie it. The figure 8 can be very hard to untie once it has tightened up. The figure 8 is much easier to learn and tie too.

Maybe I am getting the terminology wrong here. A figure 8 used by climbers (figure 8 follow through) is hard to tie, but that is used to tie around something. A figure 8 to make a loop in the end of a rope (figure 8 on a bight) is a breeze, fold the line over and make an overhand knot creating a loop.

"A figure 8 used by climbers (figure 8 follow through) is hard to tie, but that is used to tie around something"

It's actually very easy if you practice it a bit. It becomes almost automatic.

I like to use lightweight handguns to anchor my shelter instead of stakes, little heavier but they are multi-use- just be careful where you locate the knot and and extra careful when you snug up the guy lines :)

never thought I'd see a knot question becoming contentious (of course the anti-knot folks tend to be a little on the radical side)

Lets face it a bowline, regardless of effectiveness, is an ugly knot. What with that misshapen line sticking out all awkward like and all. On the other hand, a double figure eight seems like ostentatious overkill for a guy-line. A simple overhand knot? - may work fine but does it look lazy and uninspired? A perfection knot? -an attractive symmetry but is it too pretentious?

Thanks for the chuckle, David. I tie lots of perfection loops (hey, works great for fishing too) I will forever feel self conscious :)

.

Edited by jimver on 10/19/2011 14:53:36 MDT.

I'm sorry, but I just apologized to Dale on another thread and then read what he pointed out on this thread. Start at the top and look at his responses and you be the judge, is he is a reasonable or intelligent man?. He has gone over the edge on more than just me. Dale you have to realize that I am not an expert and quite frankly I don't know your credentials either, but this is a place where people seek info. I actually don't think I ever want to reach the point where I am an expert like your-self, I enjoy researching and hearing others opinions. I promise this will be the last post on Dale and hope he remembers what this sport is suppose to be about, relaxation, clearing the mind, and not being around critical people on the weekends. At least for me!

Rim to Rim with my son next week, doesn't get any better than that!

I take it all back, he just apologized to me!!

Edited by kevinharper2 on 10/21/2011 23:55:03 MDT.

My, my, my.

Dale is really a nice person (online at least I have never met him), and always very helpful. Perhaps he had a couple bad days. I would not take anything personally.

Regarding knots... I found out last year that I have been tying my shoe laces incorrectly for the past 56 years! But I have lived through all of it :)

>Regarding knots... I found out last year that I have been tying my shoe laces >incorrectly for the past 56 years! But I have lived through all of it :)

Heretic! Burn the heretic! :)

(just a wee suggestion that trucker's knots are very useful for being able to really reef down on the line and tighten it nicely. Finish with a slip knot for easy untying.) (Dale, are you having MEN 'o pause? :o)~ if so, duct tape and/or Jack Daniels solves most problems.)