My family used a cheap tent when I was a little kid. It worked okay but it did have some issues. I would be leery of taking a cheap tent into an area with a lot of wind for example. My favorite big group shelter is still a big tarp, its cheap and simple but obviously it has its own limitations.

Considering the short period that most families will be using a large tent before the kids prefer having their own tent, I also question the large dollar amounts. (The exception would be families like mine in which the kids arrived 5 years apart!)

There is also the issue of footprint size. With my Tarptent Rainshadow (3-person), it's often difficult to find a good place to pitch it. A 4 or 5 person tent would be worse. That's why my son's family of 5 have decided to go with a 2-person tent plus the Rainshadow. Of their three children (6, 9, 11), only the youngest insists on sleeping with a parent, and he has developmental issues. The other two want their own space and have for several years.

Of course getting two smaller tents (probably a better long-term investment) means that Mom has to sleep in one tent and Dad in the other while the children are young enough to want an adult with them.

The alternative is a cheaper (but heavier) big tent. The short life doesn't matter if you're using it for only a few years.

Edited by hikinggranny on 10/14/2011 13:13:20 MDT.

As far as cheap tents go its not just an issue of how long it lasts but how well it handles wind, rain and possibly snow. If I was doing a trip where there was a strong chance of high winds or really bad weather I'd want something good quality. If not I'd just avoid trips like that. A good tent is still way cheaper than a camper or RV for example.
For a while I was looking for a good 3-4 man sized pyramid tent. I like to go hiking at Grayson Highlands often with little brothers and friends along and it gets windy up there. I never found anythign I could afford. As they get bigger they just cost a lot more.

I'm finding most of the kvetching here a bit specious.

Growing up my parents, sister and I used a VE-24 as a family tent for over a decade. Even when we were three we knew to be nice to the tent. That level of consideration is not too much to ask of young kids, nor is the expectation of using a family shelter for far longer than most here hang on to personal shelters. Little kids do fine on ambitious trips with mixed weather with only modest additonal planning.

And as for floorless use, why not inculcate kids against creepy-crawly paranoia from an early age?

I've had a Zephyr 3 now for three years and been very generally happy with it. Used it for both family and Scout camping. It's light enough to carry and big enough to actually hold three people.

Two issues. The zipper seam on the doors didn't come sealed from the factory, allowing drips to get inside not just the vestibule, but through the netting into the tent proper. Since I sealed those seams it has done well in some really nasty weather.
Second issue is the short cross-member pole at the head of the tent. The grommets holding this pole will blow out if not set up correctly. If you know what you are doing, it works fine, if not (see Scout camping), you may need to replace a grommet. Practice setting it up home and you will be fine.

Again, I really like this tent. I have smaller,lighter and more expensive tents but this is my tent of choice for 3 people. Relatively low weight, plenty of room, good ventilation, two doors and a very reasonable price.

From Mary :
There is also the issue of footprint size.
This is an area where the TT Hogback does particularly well.
The footprint (including guylines) is actually smaller than some 2-3 person tents.
The vestibules are small but you can shove a pack (or two smaller ones) inside each and if you have two kids there is space inside for some gear too.
This drawing clearly shows the difference between footprint and usable space.
Hogback overimposed on the Squall (a 2 person shelter)

Franco
franco@tarptent.com

Edited by Franco on 10/14/2011 18:54:00 MDT.

+1 on the Hogback
We have a 13y/o, and a dog. For times when all of us share the same tent, we got a TarpTent Hogback.
Loads of room inside. We never have had an issue finding a place to pitch it (Sierras and San Gabriels).
As Franco pointed out, it does not take much more space than the typical 2 person tent .
It seems to be very well designed- holds up well to wind, rain and hail. We had no condensation issues.
It is more spacious inside than the REI 4 person tent we bought for car camping.

Compared to our BA Flycreek 3- it weighs about the same and has loads more room.

I'd like to see a usable space comparison, which can be more enlightening than a floor space comparison. The pyramids and tipis outer edges add a bunch of floor space, but may not be usable for much except for gear (low ceiling height on the edges). I seem to recall a comparison in the forums of the usable space between the Hogback and Shangri-La 5 - the Hogback won, despite the Shangri-La having nearly twice the floor space.

Yes , good point.
In fact when I posted that drawing on another forum several hinted or stated that it was skewed to make the TT look better even after a guy that has the Shangri La 5 confirmed that it was correct. Mind you the dimensions are available on the respective sites, the point here is that many cannot visualise that difference (IE floor area and usable space)
The other common mistake is that many forget to factor in their mat and sleeping bag (themselves on top of one and inside the other)
Of course floor area is not the most important factor for many.
It is all about choosing the one that ticks most boxes for oneself not what makes sense to someone else.
Franco

Interesting about the Hogback vs. the Squall 2! Thanks, Franco, for the diagram and info! Folks, forget what I said about the Hogback footprint!

Part of the problem was that I didn't want to buy another tent, particularly with the older two grandkids to the point they want their own space. I suspect that the youngest, with his developmental issues, will want to stay with Mom and Dad for a few more years. However, there will come a point that all three kids will be in the Rainshadow and Mom and Dad in the Squall. I suspect that at some point thereafter Mom and Dad will want the kids in a separate campsite, LOL!

In the meantime, Granny and her dog, as long as we're around, will be in the Tarptent/Gossamer Gear Squall Classic. (A great design by Henry, IMHO, especially the zippered vestibule!) Too bad GG has discontinued it.

All of these are great tents, IMHO!

Edited by hikinggranny on 10/16/2011 23:51:56 MDT.

David,
Outside of summer here in the south it gets dark at 6:30 or earlier. Have you ever sat in a tarp with a 4yr old girl, a 5 yr old boy and a 9 yr old girl in a rainstorm at night for three hours? I haven't and nor do I want too. I have sat in a tent and played Candy Land and Go Fish for 3 hours until they went to sleep. Yes it is good to teach kids to respect gear and to also educate them abou creepy crawlers. However it is most important that they relax and have fun. I know I don't want to be on a trip when a 1 inch american cockroach or a blue tailed skink crawls in a sleeping bag with a 4 yr old girl! I just got home last night from a 3 day trip with kids. They all said it was the best time they've ever had. I tried my best to let them relax and have fun AND teach them a little about respecting gear and the wilderness but in small doses. It sure was fun in that cheap tent having a tickle fest with them kids instead of them having to lay like a mummy in a museum!

From the table, it looks SL5 is the most efficient if I don't bring the aluminum pole come with this shelter. To save the weight of the pole, I usually combine two trekking poles as the pole. BTW, I've also owned a nest but haven't used it since I feel it's too heavy.

Good discusion and timely as I'm trying to decide which shelter I should get when I take my 4 kids (ages 5 to 11).

I'm used to using a tarp for myself and up til now have used a double wall tent that we are outgrowing. I borrowed a huge (canvas fur trade style replica) pyramid for a family car camping trip. Loved the room and ease of set up but the only site available was on a slight slope. A thunderstorm brought buckets of rain which when paired with the large surface area of the pyramid caused a large amount of water running down the up slope side of the tent and into it. Short of digging a trench, which I don't want to do, how do you floorless large tent users deal with water runoff, this is realistically assuming you can't find a perfectly sized knoll to park on?

Thanks.

Funny you mention that tent. After a long search for a reasonably light weight double walled tent I ended up deciding on the Alps Mountaineering Zephyr. Mostly because I had concerns about the floor thickness of some of the lighter weight tents. I have dingbat puppy who is always trying to dig up the tent floor.
Anyways I love the tent. I didn't even chose it based on price but like I said weight and floor thickness. So the 135 I bought it for was a huge bonus. I have taken it in summer/fall Canadian trips. So 6 to 30 degrees C. Ventilation is great as it is all mesh. One trip was extremely windy and the tent did just fine, other then getting fine dust blown into the sleeping area. But it didn't budge.
I was able to cut the weight almost 1/2 pound by replacing the rope and only bringing 1 or 2 extra pegs.
Only complaint is that it feels a bit short for me. (6'4") I fit fine but end up touching head or foot by the morning.
I use it for two people and the dingbat who is about 50lbs. 3 would be tight unless they were a child.

hope that helps.

Just for information.

Combination of BearPaw Luna 4 (cuben) + BearPaw PyraNet 4 (inner, it can be done with mesh walls or solid nylon) + stakes kit + Ruta Locura (TiGoat) carbon fiber pole (with adjuster) weights in about 1230 grams (2.7 lbs). With silnylon tent it will be around 1500 grams (3.3 lbs). All weights are from their site http://www.bearpawwd.com. Interesting option i think.

Edited by joarr on 10/21/2011 09:51:14 MDT.

David, Your child bug bivy is brilliant.

Damien & Renee- thanks for this excellent article.

My family of 4 had been using a 7'x7' home made double wall pyramid but one too many buggy afternoons in camp caused a revolt. Since it was designed as a winter tent it only has a drawstring tunnel door and a 3" vent. Perfect solar oven! The other complaints were the scant headroom at the edges and a need for 8 guy lines.

I had great plans to add bug netting or even an inner net pyramid to my BD Megalight, but it still had the issue of scant headroom and needing multiple guys. There was a family demand for crawling critter proof containment.

Then my wife and I were at REI last spring with dividend and 20% coupon in hand. I found her in front of the REI Half Dome 4. $210 and 7 pounds later we were out the door, me giving furtive glances around to be sure no UL hikers had spotted me buying the Minivan Of Tents.

Although it is about 3 pounds heavier than I would prefer, we are very happy with the tent for California use. It goes up very quickly and can be pitched dry in the rain. Being freestanding there is flexibility in stake placement without affecting tautness. With sitting headroom right at the edges we had four boys and two dads hanging out during a rainstorm at a Cub Scout camp out.

One downside to the exceptional ventilation is getting the kids up in the morning. With my old solar oven tent it would only take about 5 minutes of sunshine before it got so hot they would come scurrying out like rats from a sinking ship.

Pricewise I think it was a great move. As several others have noted it won't be long before my kids - 11 & 9 next summer- will want separate accommodations.

Edited by jimqpublic on 01/22/2012 07:29:43 MST.

My family and I have used a GoLite Shagra-La 6+ tent for years. Yes, it weighs more than the 4 person tents listed above.... however, this tent is huge and wonderful to use. The tent holds the 5 of us + a labrador + all the packs with plenty of room to spare. So, in my opinion, if you are looking for a family shelter and want 6 people to be comfortable - this is a great tent.

Edited by PapaSherpa on 04/07/2012 21:38:11 MDT.

My family and I had used a similar setup, only we put the Shangri-La 4+ Nest under the Shangri-La 6+ tarp! http://www.adventureinprogress.com/family-shelter

Unfortunately the 6+ is no longer sold. You can still get the Shangri-La 5, although the interior space of the nest has been reduced to accomodate a small vestibule area.