"We are shut up in schools and college recitation rooms for ten or fifteen years, and come out at last with a bellyful of words and do not know a thing."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson


While much good can come from 'being shut up in schools,' it really is up to us to cultivate the knowledge we're given. Any idiot can spend years and years in school, but it is the smart ones that actually become educated.

"but it is the smart ones that actually become educated."

Slight disagreement: it is the engaged and motivated ones who actually become educated. The vast majority of us have the capability, but it is a minority, IMAHO (okay maybe not so AH), who are engaged enough and/or motivated enough to become educated.

I have been guilty of this too.

Sometimes we say smart or stupid when we are referring to work ethic, motivation, or even knowledge. Not the same. Tom has pointed this out to me several times.

What I am seeing from most people is support for public education but fear that our institutions are inadequate or failing and that historical lack of accountability is sufficient reason to rule out additional funding.

I don't see how the system can be overhauled without significant expense but perhaps I am simply not seeing something.

I would very much like to see a high school education provide sufficient mathematics, language and social skills that it would be more than adequate for most entry level jobs. For example, I think it is absurd that most office jobs supposedly require a college education. I believe this has more to do with low level of education provided by public high schools, whatever the cause, than job complexity.

Vocational training is also something we seem to have completely abandoned in our schools. I don't believe that most schools even offer shop or home economics classes any longer. Honestly this might better be addressed by 2 year college programs than trying to reintroduce the subject matter to public high schools.

I am disappointed :(

At the local High School, last Friday; the extra credit assignment for an English class:
Here are two piles of stickers; walk downtown during lunch hour. Ask random people if they are downtown shopping, then ask them if they are spending less, equal or more than they were around this time last year. If they say "less" give them the sticker that says "You are bad for the economy". If they say equal or more, give them the sticker that says " You are good for the economy".
No data to be brought back to the classroom; no explanation of at least one other school of thought when it comes to the economy and spending.
I don't know if I am more sad or mad.


Edited for spelling ;)

Edited by Kat_P on 10/09/2011 21:26:25 MDT.

There are educators on BPL that will back my post 100%

Again, Ben made some solid points, but most of #1 will not work

"To me, if we want to rebuild a dynamic and forward-looking nation, we need to overhaul our education system -- and everything else that impacts its success / failure. I'd like to see:........"

+1 your entire post, Ben, but as you noted in an earlier post, it's going to be hard to turn things around. We need a cultural paradigm shift in our attitudes toward education, among other things, and you don't turn a nation of 300 million around on a dime. Even if we manage to muster the collective will, it's going to be a multigenerational project. I would suggest studying the Finnish approach to education as a good place to start.

Edited for spelling.

Edited by ouzel on 10/09/2011 20:06:14 MDT.

"No data to be brought back to the classroom; no explanation of at least one other school of thought when it comes to the economy and spending.
I don't know if I am more sad or mad."

Did any of the parents even notice, let alone become outraged?

I think I know the answer.

Sigh.......

Kat
Thanks for that delightful little nugget, which actually gets back to one of the points of OWS -- that we have been misled (by schools, parents, politicians, etc.) about a great many things of fundamental importance, such as that it's possible to have infinite growth on a finite planet. OWS is being driven more by a breakdown in the infinite growth paradigm than a breakdown in the education system, IMO.

>> Vocational training is also something we seem to have completely abandoned in our schools. I don't believe that most schools even offer shop or home economics classes any longer. Honestly this might better be addressed by 2 year college programs than trying to reintroduce the subject matter to public high schools.


Correct. I am in the auto industry and almost 100% of high school shops do not provide adequate vocational training.

Our technology is getting so advanced, that a high school curriculum that prepares students for college would also prepare them for many vocational schools.

"we have been misled (by schools, parents, politicians, etc.) about a great many things of fundamental importance"

Difficult to be misled if one has the ability to think critically and seek their own answers.

Been following this discussion (aka "lurking") with some interest. The thread is long enough that I'm not certain Ben was addressing the original topic (Occupy _________ protests) but in case he is ...

Capitalism isn't perfect, and yes, there is room for improvements. But all this railing against even the fundamentals of capitalism ...

An important fundamental of capitalism (at least as taught in Economics 101 40 years ago) is that no individual consumer or supplier is large enough to substantially influence the market by his/her actions alone.

I would submit that we haven't met that criteria for a long long time and I will not disparage anyone for railing against the outcomes of that situation.

I would also submit that there's a truth underlying that fundamental of capitalism ... "Highly concentrated _______ power results in abuse of the power to the benefit of few and detriment of many." Fill in the blank with all sorts of things, financial power, decision making power, legal enforcement power, rule making power, power over critical resources, I'm sure folks can imagine others.

Regarding "So much anger" ... indeed there's a lot of anger. A lot of people have been economically harmed. They are scared. They are angry. But think about this ... which is more important to do 1) argue as to whether the anger is justifiable or not 2) pay attention to histories of what came of similar angers and proceed as informed by those histories. Some examples:
- the Hoovervilles and riots in the U.S. in the 1930's (do I hear the beginning of an echo from 80 years ago?)
- the political power shift in Germany during the 1930's and the resulting ultimate outcomes.
- the Russian revolution, the civil war that followed and what followed during the next 70+ years

Since I'm not aware of an instance of communism being implemented without serious evil I'm willing to accept that the evil is inherent in the system. But remember that communism was a reaction to a pre-existing evil (large economic disparities). That communism was evil does not make what preceded it less evil.

I've rambled long enough

I am in the auto industry and almost 100% of high school shops do not provide adequate vocational training.

Nick might be encouraged by Raider Automotive ... a high school based instruction program that has done most of the maintenance and repairs on our 11 year old van.

Not that I can say how many similar programs exist elsewhere.

"Did any of the parents even notice, let alone become outraged?

I think I know the answer."

I just found out today and I am thinking about what I should do. I also wonder how much of this sort of thing goes on. None of this was mentioned in the parent portal online....maybe because it was extra credit?
I plan on talking to the teacher .

Jim,

I did say almost 100% :)


Regarding capitalism... we haven't seen true capitalism; almost saw it in the mid 19th century. So we cannot condemn a mixed economy as capitalism :)

I am disappointed :(



Influencing kids with personal agenda. This is what I was referring to when parents lose control of subject matter in public schools.

Good for you on catching it and addressing it.

"Difficult to be misled if one has the ability to think critically and seek their own answers."
Agree Nick! Critical thinking is absolutely the key! Sadly doesn't seem to be stressed much in public school; mostly rote memorization of facts/dates of questionable usefulness.
The Trivium method:
General Grammar, Aristotelian Logic, and Classical Rhetoric comprise the first three rules-based subjects of the 7 Liberal Arts and Sciences. As these disciplines are learned and practiced together, they form the overarching, symbiotic system for establishing clarity and consistency of personal thought called the Trivium.
http://www.triviumeducation.com/

@Tom
I get your point, Tom, I think. The parents......yes, I also believe it starts at home and kids could get a great education even in a really bad school, if they were raised in a family that fosters education and learning . It seems that to many parents school is little more than a babysitting institution and that is a major problem that makes teaching incredibly difficult.
For me high school has become a difficult place to even get an idea of what goes on..., much different than in the lower grades. It's difficult to get a hold of teachers, and most of them have not made an effort to inform me of anything. One notable exeption was a math teacher ( not a US citizen, but that is irrelevent for the most part) that called me at work the very first time my daughter turned in an incomplete assignment. We were to meet the following morning at 7:30, the three of us. She never again missed an assignment. The kids in his class knew never to be late, or they would be kicked out. He also loved what he teaches. He was very strict, somewhat rude, very aware of all the kids in the class. I think he should be paid much more than some others I have come across.
However this fits in the greater discussion.

We see true capitalism all the time; drug dealing is an excellent example. Unfettered capitalism is certainly no more evil than communism but please don't make the mistake of believing that it is inherently beneficial and somehow a truer reflection of the natural order.

All of our systems depend on the foibles and failings of human beings thus they are all imperfect. Our Republic is doing remarkably well despite its tolerance for nearly unbridled avarice and a tendency to play the role of an overbearing parent on too many occasions.

Good catch on my semantics. You're correct.