Fuel stove
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James Sogi
(zephyr1) - F
Fuel stove on 10/06/2011 22:19:40 MDT Print View

Does anybody make a lightweight titanium stove that burns fuel, such as coleman, alcohol, instead of wood to keep a tent warm. The idea is to have like a cook stove inside a stove with a vent/chimney to avoid asphyxiation kind of like the tigoat lightweight titanium stove. I know its not super ultralight, but for extended stays in 0 weather at night it sure would come in handy for a base camp tent.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Fuel stove on 10/06/2011 23:27:29 MDT Print View

And it might help keep bedding etc just a bit drier too. Oh yes, not silly at all.

Cheers

David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
Re: Where's Hikin' Jim anyway? on 10/06/2011 23:35:02 MDT Print View

James, I have been thinking about a white gas fueled heat source for a while as well. I am not aware of anybody selling such a thing, however. Doesn't seem particularly difficult -must be liability concerns?

Seems like all that would be required is a small stove box with the burner portion of a white gas stove fitted into it. The jet and mix air holes would stick out below the box. The box would only have to be about 1.5" tall by 6" wide by about 11 inches deep. probably have to be 22 gauge so as not to warp too much. Much of the combustion air would enter the box with the mix air but a small slider would probably be needed to add just enough air to support a proper flame. A two inch vent seems plenty.

Fuel supply could be provided by a normal pressurized bottle or better yet by gravity with the fuel source elevated to provide feed pressure. Would want to hang it outside though and run a small diameter line into the tent-1/8 inch ID should be plenty big. One of those sliding IV valves could be used to control flow.

A certain amount of care is required with white gas to avoid having a willie E. coyote moment. Kerosene smells, but being less volatile, may be a better choice.

I am certainly not an expert and nothing I am saying here constitutes an endorsement of doing anything dumb...just brainstorming...dang attorneys anyway....

Ryan Elsey
(paintballswimguy) - F

Locale: Kansas City
thoughts on 10/06/2011 23:43:14 MDT Print View

I've used the coleman blackcap heater before. While camping out for Black Friday shopping. I was in a 3 season, 3 person tent. and it was 5 degrees outside. We vented the top of the tent pretty substantially, as well as the bottom of the fly. and 3 of us were inside the tent, in shorts and tshirts...I realize its not quite what your thinking. But it was very efficient and effective.

Also, i'm not thinking an alcohol heater would be very effect at all... It would take a lot of fuel to produce very much heat. However, i did find this, I have no idea how well it works, and you would still need to figure out a way to vent the fumes effectively. http://www.smallspacesappliances.com/alcoholheaters.aspx
http://www.letusdiy.org/html/diy/diy_lvxin/20081207/1051.html

I know you didn't like the idea of wood, but maybe you could turn this into and alcohol heater somehow...
http://www.instructables.com/id/Stay-Warm-with-the-Heiny-Heater/#step1

Ryan Elsey
(paintballswimguy) - F

Locale: Kansas City
idea on 10/06/2011 23:48:47 MDT Print View

I'm willing to bet that you could use a the Heineken mini keg and throw a white gas burner into the bottom of it. and use tin cans for the vent. If you really got creative it would be possible to make a built in water heater out of it, like the backcountry boiler...

Antti Peltola
(anttipeltola) - F
Re: Fuel stove on 10/07/2011 02:47:54 MDT Print View

Chimneys work with wood as you do not have to haul around the amount of fuel as all the warm air that comes out of the chimney is wasted fuel.

Heating the tent with a multifuel stove like MSR XGK etc. (without any chimney) is quite common in scandinavia and pretty much a standard in polar expeditions. Usual way to handle the asphyxiation problems is having big enough vents in the tent which can then be adjusted smaller if the wind is really strong. With these big vents I mean vents like in Hilleberg Keron, big enough to handle the venting even when you block the gap between the fly and the ground completely with the snow.

Stuart R
(Scunnered) - F

Locale: Scotland
Re: Fuel stove on 10/07/2011 06:29:17 MDT Print View

How about a small kerosene greenhouse heater?

http://www.garden4less.co.uk/paraffin-greenhouse-heaters.asp

Erik Basil
(EBasil) - M

Locale: Atzlan
...not ul but, candle lantern on 10/07/2011 06:54:59 MDT Print View

You won't hang out in a t-shirt, but an old-school candle lantern will raise the temps in a tent, nicely. I've been two guys in a mountaineering tent with 15 degrees outside and 45 in the tent that way. Colder than that, and you're into the XGK with major venting (light it outside).

Now, anyone hardcore enough to camp for post-T-day shopping in 5-degree weather... man, I hope you scored the $200 big screen TV or whatever it was!!!

David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
Re: ...not ul but, candle lantern on 10/07/2011 08:11:50 MDT Print View

Wood stoves- IMO the problem with these in smaller sizes is the short cycle time between too hot and too cold. Fine for a little warmth for the evening festivities but you sure can't sleep and feed the stove. Maybe something using small wood and pine needles and a pellet stove approach might work?

Stuart- The Kerosene green house heaters are interesting. They are basically a fuel container with an adjustable wick like a kerosene lantern. This concept could work well if one could find a light container to fit the wick holder into and a secure cap over the top to make transporting spills less of a problem.

Erik- Lets hope that winter UL can be different than summer UL. IMO candles may be the best UL solution to warming/drying a small tent in cold weather. Candle wax has similar BTU value to other fuels, is easy to transport and you can add heat output with additional candles. I make a small MYOG hanging lantern with cat can bottom and V8 can top at 0.5 oz. Kmart votive candles wrapped in aluminum foil tape burn for 6 hrs and weigh 1 oz each. So I could use 3 at a time without a big weight penalty. Might be worth exploring further. Besides my dog is getting used to hot wax being spilled on him.

Paul McLaughlin
(paul) - MLife
Re: Fuel stove on 10/07/2011 11:18:12 MDT Print View

I would think about lightweight lanterns, Snow Peak, coleman and Primus -and maybe others - make lanterns that run on the usual butane/propane mix canisters, all around 3-5 ounces. They put out substantial heat as well as light, and if you wanted to run one all night and not have the light keep you awake I expect you could easily rig a shade of some sort. Turned down low they will run a long time on one canister. Back in the days before LED headlamps, I used to sometimes use an old Bleuet lantern that used the puncture-type cartridges (I still take it car camping), and that baby warmed the tent up quite a bit.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: ...not ul but, candle lantern on 10/07/2011 15:40:11 MDT Print View

Good point. One or two tea-tray candles can make a huge difference inside a tent. That is actually a very old trick. Do remember to have a little ventilation of course.

Cheers

d k
(dkramalc) - MLife
candle lantern on 10/07/2011 15:55:54 MDT Print View

http://www.trailspace.com/forums/camp-kitchen/topics/98161.html#99227

Not entirely enclosed, but light...

Tom Ferry
(thecook) - F
military kerosene heaters on 10/07/2011 16:22:17 MDT Print View

I've seen kerosene tent heaters in Army Navy stores before. I don't quite remember, but think that they could burn gas or Aviation gas too. Definately not light, though.

David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
CO of Primus lantern vs canister stove. on 10/07/2011 16:37:44 MDT Print View

Does anyone know how the CO output of a canister lantern (with a mantle) compares to that of the average canister stove?

David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
Re: military kerosene heaters on 10/07/2011 17:07:54 MDT Print View

The military has made a number of interesting tent heaters over the years. The one I find most interesting is the liquid fuel attachment made for the old model 1950 "yukon" wood stove. It's too big and heavy to be of much interest for light travel, but the manner in which it works could be duplicated on a smaller scale. And they were made to use aviation fuel- JP8 jet fuel, similar to kerosene.

Michael Moore
(lilricky) - F
Suggestion... on 10/08/2011 13:28:11 MDT Print View

Whether you are using alcohol, wood, or even a canister stove, the best way of heating the air in your tent is to boil water. The water vapor being released in the air(humidity) when heated will give the fastest temperature rise vs heat being radiated from metal. Although, if you're not used to high humidity, it may be a bit uncomfortable.

Edited by lilricky on 10/08/2011 13:28:52 MDT.

Paul McLaughlin
(paul) - MLife
Re: Suggestion... on 10/08/2011 15:05:05 MDT Print View

The increased humidity may also result in massive condensation. Guess how I know.

Antti Peltola
(anttipeltola) - F
Re: Suggestion... on 10/16/2011 14:29:00 MDT Print View

"Whether you are using alcohol, wood, or even a canister stove, the best way of heating the air in your tent is to boil water. The water vapor being released in the air(humidity) when heated will give the fastest temperature rise vs heat being radiated from metal. Although, if you're not used to high humidity, it may be a bit uncomfortable."

The humidity will go to your sleeping bag also, and stay there once you stop heating :(
Besides, the flames heat the air directly, it's not radiating from metal.