Out of curiosity I picked up a "triple star" down jacket at my local Costco these are boys jacket but the xl the largest size falls in-between a small and a medium it weighs 13.30 ounces with stuff sack and tags it has maybe a inch of loft side by side with my down inner it is a good deal loftier it has a hood insulated with polyester fill the shell appears to be 20-30d the down I would place at 700-750 fp it is warmer then my down inner and best of all only 29.99$!!!!! Search triple down jacket and eBay has a boys xl for you to see a pic. Over all it looks like a good product for the price

Nice find! I'll go check it out. Can always need a little more insulation. Thanks

those caught my eye too.

IMO alot of the down goods these days are "overpriced" ... you can get good 650-700 fill jackets at retailers ... i saw a down jacket which was marked a 90/10, no idea what the fill power was, but people who have bought it say its hella warm, the shell seemed pretty thin as well ... it was $50, latter $30 on sale

now of course they probably dont sell 800+ fill jackets at those prices ... but then you really need to ask yourself if its 700 fill, is the extra 100 fill power worth being triple the price?

not to mention quite a few brands sell 650-700 fill jackets for $$$

same with merino, saw $10 dead sheep tops at costco that were made in canada ... vs. the $100 bank breaker ones that were made in china ...

yuppies ;)

Edited by bearbreeder on 10/06/2011 22:48:04 MDT.

That just goes to show that you don't have to get your clothing at the expensive hiker stores! Save the money for a good sleeping bag!

> ask yourself if its 700 fill, is the extra 100 fill power worth being triple the price?

I do sometimes wonder about that. Our quilt at home has lots of small feathers, I am sure. But it seems to keep its loft very well. Does the presence of small feathers actually add some robustness to down? I wonder ...

OK - skip feathers for a back-country quilt, but maybe a jacket actually benefits?

Cheers

roger ... i wonder how many people camp in 50%+ humidty ;)


Ryan Jordan
( ryan - BPL STAFF - M)

Locale:
Greater Yellowstone

NEW Re: Re: Re: Introduction to Outdoor Retailer Summer Market 2008 on 08/10/2008 08:04:56 MDT

Bill et al.,

I spoke at length with IDFL yesterday about down testing.

None of their tests stimulate real world testing. 900 fp in a test is going to be a pipe dream in the field, because they steam wash and dry the down to nearly zero humidity before doing the test. Ironically, this most recent iteration of test methods was designed to determine the maximum possible fill power for down rather than what it will look like in the field.

Interestingly as a side note, we did some 900 fp testing of down a few years ago on two manufacturer's 900 bags. We cut the bags open and sent them to IDFL. Neither made the claimed 900 spec (they tested 830-870 using the steam method). What was more dramatic was that when each down (which clearly came from different sources as evidenced by visual inspection) was subjected to 50% humidity, the differences were pretty dramatic. One bag tested at 770 fp, the other at 680 fp. It seems that at least these two sources of 900 down had feathers in it that were not resilient in response to humidity.

The kicker is that we ran the same test next to down taken from a manufacturer's 750 fp bag. at 50% humidity, the fp was 720. Why? It had more feathers that were stiff enough to preserve the loft in moist conditions.


http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=39920

Top find Will. Pretty tempting to get one for my fiance; she's always cold, and that would fit her. Could easily save half and ounce for sure by trimming off tags and that inside pocket I see in one picture.

I'm liking the 5-10 percent humidity so common here in New Mexico now :)

5% my azzz ... for santa fe current =P

Hi Eric

> roger ... i wonder how many people camp in 50%+ humidty ;)
50% is pretty rare for us, here in Sydney, Australia.
It is usually more like 70%. 80% would not be uncommon. 90% happens.

Cheers

> None of their tests stimulate real world testing. 900 fp in a test is going to be a
> pipe dream in the field, because they steam wash and dry the down to nearly zero
> humidity before doing the test. Ironically, this most recent iteration of test
> methods was designed to determine the maximum possible fill power for down rather
> than what it will look like in the field.

And we know that the Europeans regard the new IDFL test method as futile and deceptive. They will not accept the results. Indeed, I have seen them quote things like '700 fill power (850 American)' for a bit of down gear.

Cheers

I personally think that this obsession with fill-weight is more of a marketing thing than a real performance spec. If you just do the math, it only takes 5.3oz of 600-fill power to equal the volume/loft/warmth potential of 4oz of 800-fill down. I think the fill-weight by itself is less significant than the design, fit and fabrics used. It's much more significant in a sleeping bag because you're using 12-20+ ounces of down but, even there, I think most people underestimate how much the design and fit affects performance.

For a jacket, the bottom line is that a 600-fill jacket with 6oz of fill is probably going to be warmer than an 800-fill jacket with 4oz of fill. Add heavier "cheap" fabrics and you typically have something that's probably more water and wind resistant and even warmer, plus maybe a fleece inner collar and lined pockets that adds weight but also some "warm and fuzzy" comfort, and an unfashionable cut that covers your butt.

Down and merino have been available forever. I'm not sure why we think that only hiking gear manufacturers know how to manufacture/use it or that the stuff they use is somehow vastly superior than the stuff people have been using/wearing forever.

"Does the presence of small feathers actually add some robustness to down? I wonder ..."

Some BPL article or comment hypothesized that lower fill was actually better if it got wet.

Here's a typical day in the Cascades. Note the 95% humidty, the dew point and the actual temperature 1F apart, and the glorious forecast. try to keep anything dry! I want an UL dehumidifier-- but it can't be solar powered :)

How do you folks who live in high humidity areas store your down sleeping bags? I live in SF and usually have my windows open. I almost never use heat. My apartment is pretty much in equilibrium with conditions outside. I notice differences in my bag (hung in closet) given differing weather conditions.

Do you have any tricks for reducing local humidity in a closet?

I store my down in the shelf above my closet. I contain it with No see Um and the shelf itself is like a grate. Being higher up, against the ceiling, it is stored in the warmer part of the house, less affected by humidity. The area in general is humid, with the back of the house in the woods and the front toward a meadow, north of Santa Cruz. I like this storage better than hanging down, because it is neither compressed, nor weighed down.

Jim,

I'm in H-U-M-I-D Florida. My down quilts & bags are stored in their factory storage bags in a closet (up high like Kat's). AC is on over half the year.

Todd

I bought one today! A boy's medium fits me perfectly and weighs exactly 10 ounces. The material used just like Goosefeet's down pants, softer and lighter than my Montbell. Oh, it's a parka , with a very nice fitting hood. Thanks for the heads up.

@ Jim

living in Tropical North Queensland means high humidity - see link - http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_032040.shtml . Like you, I keep my windows open. I store my sleeping bags hanging in my clothes cupboard, and keep a DampRid moisture absorber in the cupboard. During the wet season, it can need emptying and refilling every couple of weeks or more, but it helps keep the mould away. You need to keep the cupboard door closed as much as you can to make it as effective as possible.

Not too sure how it would work in your conditions, but probably cheap enough to try. I buy mine at the local supermarket, but here is a link for you - http://www.damprid.com/product/refillable-moisture-absorber-fg01k - no affiliation, just a user of their product.

CQ.