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Lightweight Integrated Canister Fuel Cooking Systems State of the Market Report 2011: Part 2 – Trends, Stove Ratings, and Selections
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Addie Bedford
(addiebedford) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Lightweight Integrated Canister Fuel Cooking Systems State of the Market Report 2011: Part 2 – Trends, Stove Ratings, and Selections on 10/04/2011 13:05:50 MDT Print View

Companion forum thread to:

Lightweight Integrated Canister Fuel Cooking Systems State of the Market Report 2011: Part 2 – Trends, Stove Ratings, and Selections

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
hmmmmm on 10/04/2011 13:44:51 MDT Print View

i feel like this is BPL heresy for some reason ... jetboilers no longer need to hang their head in shame ...

great review!

Jim Sweeney
(swimjay) - MLife

Locale: Northern California
Smaller canisters on 10/04/2011 14:52:14 MDT Print View

Great report! Worth repeating is that greater efficiency often means one can carry a smaller canister. The difference between full Snowpeak 200 ml and 400 ml canisters is 6 oz.; when both are empty, it's about 2 oz. On a longer trip, this weight saving could easily offset any weight advantage of a conventional canister setup. Not being a coffee drinker, I only need to boil about 2 cups of water per day, to rehydrate dinner. So with either of the Jetboil Sol's, a 200 ml (100g, roughly) canister should boil an amazing 12 liters, or ~ 20 days! (I made a mistake earlier, confusing grams and milliliters. 1 ml of water weighs 1 gm (or rather, has that much mass); butane & propane are roughly half as dense as water, when liquid.)

Edited by swimjay on 10/05/2011 17:55:59 MDT.

Jim Sweeney
(swimjay) - MLife

Locale: Northern California
Jetboil Sol locking security on 10/04/2011 16:03:55 MDT Print View

The review mentions that: "The Jetboil locking mechanism to attach the pot to the burner (left) is awkward to use and doesn’t work smoothly. It could easily come loose while using their hanging accessory."

On my unit, the problem seems to be that, when one rotates the burner unit to lock to the bottom of the pot, one is not able to rotate it as far as the slots in the pot sleeve (which engage three nubs in the burner unit) are designed to allow, because the bottom of the pot bottoms out on an inner flange of the burner unit.

Edited by swimjay on 10/05/2011 17:57:17 MDT.

Christopher Kuzmich
(obchristo2) - F
Larger capacity pots on 10/04/2011 16:56:03 MDT Print View

A couple comments on larger capacity pots.

1) Using a generic larger capacity pot on a Jetboil is the same as any other stove. No efficiency gain here.

2) MSR currently makes a 2.5L pot for the Reactor as a seperate purchase.

3) The Jetboil Sumo will be avalable in a Titanium version next year. 12oz for stove and pot on the TI, 16oz for the AL version. TI pot alone will be 6.5oz.

Danny Milks
(dannymilks) - MLife

Locale: Sierras
Thanks on 10/04/2011 23:49:42 MDT Print View

Another amazing article. Buying the BPL-Life subscription years ago was worth it for all of these in depth, analytical SOTMR.

Alan Bradley
(ahbradley)
What about a gas Caldera-style cone? on 10/05/2011 04:56:58 MDT Print View

An alternative to these can-tops might be gas caldera-style cone, either with a remote hose burner inside (like http://tonysbushwalking.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/42-5gram-low-profile-remote-canister-stove). Possibly lighter: would efficiency be equal or better?

I wonder if a flexible hose is needed for the above caldera cone style burner, if stove is lit in liquid mode, with valve set low, and user expecting some flaring,(needs flame present before turn on)? Note this is a question, I'm not suggesting anything unless is answered as OK.

Maybe a metal hose is needed because of heat trapped in cone?

Alternatively, to avoid the remote hose with a cone I had wondered about a burner entering via the side of the cone (like a blow torch).

The following thread mentions some more.


http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=53553&skip_to_post=454623#454623

Edited by ahbradley on 10/10/2011 06:10:24 MDT.

Alex Lee
(gerbilbox)
Jetboil Sumo on 10/05/2011 09:06:56 MDT Print View

You should include it's performance numbers (boil times, fuel efficiency, etc). I would love to see them! It's too much of a tease to see it mentioned so much in Parts 1 and 2 but not be reviewed the same was as other systems.

Why is it that the Zip have such a lower cold resistance / boil times rating? Its design seems nearly identical to the other Jetboils.

Alex

Ryan Tir
(Ryan1524) - F
Wind on 10/05/2011 10:13:15 MDT Print View

On a recent trip, the added benefit of heat exchangers were immense (Crux with Optimus Terra Weekend HE vs Litech Trek Kettle - not very light...I know). Unfortunately, that advantage disappears as soon as any mild-moderate wind is present. It seems the very fins that help collect heat are also very good at releasing heat. Especially on a non-integrated stove, the flame needs to fight the fins being cooled down by cold wind. Food also cools down much faster while eating.

Weight issues aside, I wonder how these units perform in heavy wind. It looks like the extra locking/mounting components might do some partial windblocking, but how much? I'm wondering if supplementing my current setup with a windscreen is a better option than investing in a cold cook system instead.

Edited by Ryan1524 on 10/05/2011 10:17:59 MDT.

Christopher Kuzmich
(obchristo2) - F
Re: What about a gas Caldera-style cone? on 10/05/2011 11:05:34 MDT Print View

I have used an MSR Windpro with a 2L pot with a Backpackers Pantry Outback Oven Pot Parka for many years and achieved great fuel economy. I don't have any hard #s to go with it though.

Link to the pot parka: http://www.backpackerspantry.com/InventoryD.asp?loc=100&item_no=167212&category=test&subcategory=

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: What about a gas Caldera-style cone? on 10/05/2011 11:56:27 MDT Print View

Thats my winter set up (gas- caldera)

Stove: Primus Spider
Pot: 2L Open Country Billy pot (cut off bale)
Windscreen: Caldera Cone for ECA265 (Evernew 1300mL) inverted

This system seems to be pretty sweet for me. I have to turn the Cone upside-down to fit the pot, but it fits with about a .5" gap around the top. The cut out for the handles (in normal configuration) is where the hose for the remote can goes in (when it is upside down). Some folded up foil to form a base and I'm done.

Ayumi Obinata
(plassy) - F
How about the heat exchanger pot with conventional top mounting stove? on 10/07/2011 11:19:08 MDT Print View

I'm wondering how does the heat exchanger pot such as Primus Etapower pot on the conventional stove perform. They claim it will boost the efficiency about 50%. If its true, this type of combination would perform as good as Jetboil with less weight.

Edited by plassy on 10/07/2011 13:02:17 MDT.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: How about the heat exchanger pot with conventional top mounting stove? on 10/07/2011 15:37:13 MDT Print View

> how does the heat exchanger pot such as Primus Etapower pot on the conventional stove perform.
Just the same as with the Jetboil stove. All the magic is in the heat exchanger fins on the pot; all the stoves are just stoves. ((Except for the Reactor.))

So IN PRINCIPLE what you have to do is balance the extra weight of the finned pot against the small weight savings per day in fuel. However, you do have to make sure that the heat exchanger pot will sit at the correct height on your stove. That is not always easy to ensure. If you have the burner too close to the base of the pot the CO levels start to climb badly. That can be a problem in a tent vestibule.

Yes, the finned pot is more wind-resistant, but it also cools a lot quicker. Anyhow, the idea of running a stove without a windshield is just plain daft imho.

Cheers

Alan Bradley
(ahbradley)
Heat exchanger efficiency vs total cone enclosure on 10/08/2011 12:28:48 MDT Print View

What about testing the efficiency of the above heat exchanger pots against a remote can stove heating a pot which is totally enclosed in a conic windshield (like a gas caldera cone)?

Caption Paranoia's latest clone template allows triangular vents, which might suit the extra oxygen/exhaust needed for a gas burner.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
JB regulated? on 10/08/2011 12:55:59 MDT Print View

My JB rep said the new Sumos will be regulated.

Same stove- just the pot is different, right? So are the Sols regulated? (or will they be regulated?)

Maybe the Sols are and I just missed it.

Stuart R
(Scunnered) - F

Locale: Scotland
Re: JB regulated? on 10/08/2011 13:48:21 MDT Print View

The Sols are regulated. Read all about them in the thread accompanying Part 1.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: JB regulated? on 10/08/2011 18:18:00 MDT Print View

musta missed it- Thanks!

Harry Loong Walker
(HLWalker) - F - MLife
Re: Re: How about the heat exchanger pot with conventional top mounting stove? on 10/09/2011 03:18:17 MDT Print View

You are concerned about CO emission for the right reasons.

But am not certain your are on stable ground with some of your claims. If you use a conventional gas stove with a heat exchange pot I have problem to see any problem. The CO appear if the fire is cold down to early or if there is not enough of oxygen. The conventional stove is made to have pot base on the top, but the heat exchanger stove ought to have the pot support lower since the heat exchanger otherwise has unneccesary large distance. In other words the fuel ought to be fully burned if you use a heat exchange pot on a conventional gas stove.

You claim the reactor emit CO when it is on low. Is this really tested or is it your assumption?

I must have missed that you have tested the stoves for CO emission at this test, or is it all based on old data? If I understand correctly Primus changed the sizes of their heat exchange pot after your first test and informed bpl about that, but still you talk about the CO emission. Have tried with the modern stove and pot?

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: How about the heat exchanger pot with conventional top mounting stove? on 10/09/2011 08:39:41 MDT Print View

You must have missed Roger's articles about measuring Carbon Monoxide from stoves:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/results_advanced.html?criteria=carbon+monoxide&mv_session_id=BiLnUcNK&set_offset=0&set_use_limits=&search_clear=1&sort=&show=articles

Alan Bradley
(ahbradley)
Cone. on 10/10/2011 06:00:38 MDT Print View

Edit qtn was moved to Part 3 thread

Edited by ahbradley on 10/22/2011 06:03:13 MDT.