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BSA discrimination policy :(
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David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Changes are afoot on 02/04/2013 17:32:59 MST Print View

Rumor has it, the sponsoring organization will be deciding each troop's rules.

For example if your troop is sponsored by a church denomination that endorses happy pastors, you would likely find a similar
attitude about who can join the troop.

Boy Scouts are to be morally straight. How this is defined has changed over the years and now it sounds like the definition will
be left to local officials.

There are Scouts of all religions, it was inclusive when I was a kid. Hopefully they are coming back to that now.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Changes are afoot on 02/04/2013 17:43:55 MST Print View

"Boy Scouts are to be morally straight. How this is defined has changed over the years and now it sounds like the definition will
be left to local officials."

Tom Lehrer has always had a way of bringing people with diverse views together. I think you will all agree that his Boy Scout Creed is one for the changing times we live in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSwjuz_-yao

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Changes are afoot: from BSA Website on 02/04/2013 17:50:16 MST Print View

MEDIA STATEMENT

Boy Scouts of America
Monday, Jan. 28, 2013
Attributable to: Deron Smith, Director of Public Relations

“For more than 100 years, Scouting’s focus has been on working together to deliver the nation’s foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. Scouting has always been in an ongoing dialogue with the Scouting family to determine what is in the best interest of the organization and the young people we serve.

“Currently, the BSA is discussing potentially removing the national membership restriction regarding sexual orientation. This would mean there would no longer be any national policy regarding sexual orientation, and the chartered organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting would accept membership and select leaders consistent with each organization’s mission, principles, or religious beliefs. BSA members and parents would be able to choose a local unit that best meets the needs of their families.

“The policy change under discussion would allow the religious, civic, or educational organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting to determine how to address this issue. The Boy Scouts would not, under any circumstances, dictate a position to units, members, or parents. Under this proposed policy, the BSA would not require any chartered organization to act in ways inconsistent with that organization’s mission, principles, or religious beliefs.”

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: Changes are afoot: from BSA Website on 02/04/2013 18:46:50 MST Print View

Wow, that's a relief. The BSA is devolving its responsibilities to community level bigotry and exclusion criteria. That should help a lot. Let's just hope some of these communities will be MORE inclusive, and not less. However I am not holding my breath!

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Re: Changes are afoot: from BSA Website on 02/04/2013 18:56:36 MST Print View

"Let's just hope some of these communities will be MORE inclusive, and not less. "

Want to place any bets on the direction for BSA in Utah?

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Changes are afoot: from BSA Website on 02/04/2013 19:03:08 MST Print View

"Want to place any bets on the direction for BSA in Utah?"


???

Texas?
Mississippi?
Alabama?
South Carolina?
Oklahoma?
Iowa?
Nebraska?
Arkansas?

Others?

:)

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Changes are afoot: from BSA Website on 02/04/2013 19:42:36 MST Print View

Highlighting the interesting parts...

MEDIA STATEMENT

Boy Scouts of America
Monday, Jan. 28, 2013
Attributable to: Deron Smith, Director of Public Relations

“For more than 100 years, ...bla bla bla....This would mean there would no longer be any national policy regarding sexual orientation...

Yet reading further down "...bla bla bla..... The Boy Scouts would not, under any circumstances, dictate a position to units, members, or parents."

If there will "no longer be a national policy" [of discrimination] it is disingenuous to then proclaim that "...The Boy Scouts would not, under any circumstances, dictate a position..." Well, you Did for the past 100 years.

It seems that Deron has a bit of a problem with continuity and tracking.

What a crock.

Edited by greg23 on 02/04/2013 19:55:19 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Changes are afoot: from BSA Website on 02/04/2013 20:30:04 MST Print View

So if they did institute a national policy for the local units to follow, they would loose a lot of local organizations. Basically BSA might be kaput.

Of course, that means the policy makers would lose their jobs.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Changes are afoot: from BSA Website on 02/04/2013 20:32:02 MST Print View

Fhg

Eric Johnson
(unimog) - MLife

Locale: Utah
Re: Tax Exempt on 02/04/2013 21:27:57 MST Print View

"What would you say if the IRS didn't tax your income?
Make you "tax exempt" as long as 1) you smile, 2) pretend to be a nice guy and 3) do good work.
Sound like a good deal?"

Greg, I would say that if I spent 100% of my income to benefit the nations youth, then tax exemption seems like a fair deal.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Tax Exempt on 02/04/2013 21:41:19 MST Print View

But unlike BSA, you wouldn't impose any sort of arbitrary restrictions.

Erik Basil
(EBasil) - M

Locale: Atzlan
Definitely Chaff on 02/05/2013 08:27:19 MST Print View

It's interesting and sad how many posts there are in this thread that are really just ventings blurted in deliberate ignorance. Well, if it makes you feel better spittin' in the wind, I guess it's cheap therapy.

To the actual news topic at hand, the potential movement IS quite significant: BSA National had just "reaffirmed" the policies on homosexuality and religiosity and now, only months after a pretty firm statement that seemed to foreshadow a whole not of no-progress, the statement published above in this thread suggests a massive change. If it is adopted, there will certainly be units across the country that immediately "come out" with non-discrimination policies they've already been acting upon in contravention of the National policy. Of course, there will be other units that stay as-is. De Colores.

Now, to some folks, perhaps more accustomed to reading between the lines and around either applause or crisis words, there's a very important aspect to the potential change: it shifts liability to the local unit and charter organization. Perhaps the meaning of that is better discussed by Scouters (rather than folks that are only commenting on the applause/crisis topic) who will have to navigate this in the future, if it becomes "so".

I guess that, at this point, we wait a day and find out what happens.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Definitely Chaff on 02/05/2013 09:31:03 MST Print View

"Perhaps the meaning of that is better discussed by Scouters (rather than folks that are only commenting on the applause/crisis topic) who will have to navigate this in the future, if it becomes "so".

"I guess that, at this point, we wait a day and find out what happens."


BPL is brutal and far ranging. I doubt you would have had this array of views, or the layers of implications, from a couple of 2 hour meetings within the Scouting community. When it comes to a discussion at the local level, you will have the advantage.

BSA headquarters, tail between its legs, has already passed the buck. (What a fine example of Leadership.) I wouldn't sit back and wait. I'd be plotting and planning.

Edited by greg23 on 02/05/2013 17:37:01 MST.

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
Fine. But end federal benefits for BSA. on 02/05/2013 16:58:08 MST Print View

When you donate to BSA through, for instance, CFC it goes to the national level. Some of that will filter down to bigoted troops. Thus, BSA will still never get one cent from me. If they feel that they can function without my support- all the more power to them. Go ahead. That's just the way it is- they have a right, but so do I. I choose not to support them in any way. I don't know why the bigots on this board get so bent and defensive about that. Go on about you're business- I certainly am. But if BSA is SMART they'll see the writing on the wall and drop the bigotry. I'd be all for ending the government leases of Boy Scout camps, as well as all of the facilities they use free of charge on military bases. If they want to accept government largess, then they have to accept the government's rules. That's just the way it is. For years Lousianna did without federal infrastructure funding bbecause they didn't want to raise their legal drinking age.

If I can figure a way to benefit a non-bigoted troop and screw national, I guess I would.

For people who say that anyone who is otherwise excluded can pick a different organization than BSA, well, they're being petulant and disingenuous. There is no realistic competeter to BSA in the United States, either in resources or prestige. Everyone knows what you're talking about when you say you're an Eagle Scout. Claim that you're in CampfireUSA and you get a big "Huh?"

Girl Scouts is a very different animal. Thank God that I have a daughter and no son- I would NEVER allow my son into BSA.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Bigots? on 02/05/2013 17:07:13 MST Print View

The exclusion is bigotry. But sometimes those who go along with insane rules are not bigots, just uneducated or lacking enough knowledge about a certain subject.

Perhaps the debate here and in other venues will encourage folks to review their views on the subject and do some research.

Discrimination is a nasty animal and hard to kill.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Bigots? on 02/05/2013 17:18:09 MST Print View

"Discrimination is a nasty animal and hard to kill."

And it takes time, which is frustrating to people fighting the discrimination

slavery ended in 1865

civil rights act was in 1964

there's still a big economic difference which is a consequence of slavery and discrimination

people are fighting efforts to further equalize, like sueing for white discrimination

uh oh - agreement between Nick and I didn't last long : )

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Changes are afoot: from BSA Website on 02/05/2013 17:52:36 MST Print View

I don't doubt that the sudden change of heart comes after major corporate donors have pulled or postponed their donations because of the Boy Scouts' exclusion policy for Gays. In the last six months, those companies include UPS, United Way, the Merck Company Foundation and the Intel Foundation (one of the biggest donors).

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Changes are afoot for BSA - Depends on Who's Talking on 02/06/2013 09:42:49 MST Print View

"Texas Gov. Rick Perry, an Eagle Scout ... weighed in.

"Perry, the author of the book "On My Honor: Why the American Values of the Boy Scouts Are Worth Fighting For," said in a speech Saturday that "to have popular culture impact 100 years of their standards is inappropriate."


Oh yea, and no blacks in the community swimming pool ...

Edited by greg23 on 02/06/2013 09:45:07 MST.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
football kids on 02/06/2013 10:22:07 MST Print View

I think it is so sad kids are being kicked around like a football by various special interest groups.

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - F

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: Changes are afoot for BSA - Depends on Who's Talking on 02/06/2013 11:48:19 MST Print View

Looks like they won't make a decision until May at the earliest. My guess is they were testing the waters to see public reaction, and will now slowly & quietly back away from changing policy. Definitely a hot button issue. Regardless of my feelings on homosexuality, I do think the BSA has the right to include & exclude whomever they desire provided it doesn't violate any state or federal laws.

Ryan