http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2011/sep/28/bear-spray-worked-bowhunters/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw

and no bear was harmed in the process...

BM

Not to rehash the other posts on firearms carrying, but the video of the momma bear attack is truly chilling. It looks to me like all the bear spray in the world wouldn't have stopped her...

For those that are interested, according to the Island Park News, the bear spray wasn't actually used. It was his partner distracting the bear that saved him. The article is here. Of course, its still a good idea to carry it, but found that interesting.

Edited by catalyst81 on 09/29/2011 12:52:45 MDT.

Sadly the claim of Bear Spray ineffectiveness continues to pop up on forums. Here's a quick guide from the US Fish and Wildlife Service:

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear%20spray.pdf

"The question is not one of marksmanship or clear thinking in the face of a growling bear, for even a skilled marksman with steady nerves may have a slim chance of deterring a bear attack with a gun. Law enforcement agents for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have experience that supports this reality -- based on their investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries."

The data clearly show bear spray works, showing a reduction in both attacks, attack length and attack severity. Bear spray is low cost, easy to deploy and easy to control.

Edited by SeanBa on 09/29/2011 15:54:35 MDT.

Bear spray is low cost, easy to deploy and easy to control.
...and lighter weight.

One difference here is that a firearm may be shipped by air if it is in a locked container. Bear spray cannot be shipped by air, period.

Suppose I am flying to Yellowstone for a two week stay, and then returning by air. If I intend to carry bear spray there, I have to buy it there, carry it, and then legally dispose of it before my return home. Some people dispose of bear spray by giving it to the NPS employees when exiting the park.

That is not very cost-effective.

--B.G.--

Welp, Bear Spray is 55$ at REI. Most handguns are 500$+. You would have to make at least 10 trips where you wouldn't be able to take your Bear Spray to make up for most guns.

Edited by SeanBa on 09/29/2011 17:06:26 MDT.

Saturday night specials cost much less than $500.

Around here, the cops buy them up to get them off the street.

--B.G.--

"Welp, Bear Spray is 55$ at REI. Most handguns are 500$+. You would have to make at least 10 trips where you wouldn't be able to take your Bear Spray to make up for most guns."

There are a couple of fundamental differences here... Gun can be reloaded, and afaik, bear spray cans cannot. Bear spray- 1 time use, $55, serves only one real purpose. Firearm, lasts indefinitely, easy and cheap to reload, and serves multiple uses (+1 for multiple use gear :D). Self defense, a good recreational activity, *could* feed you if needed, can also signal for help (I've seen and heard in several places that three evenly timed discharges is used as a distress signal), etc...

Also - how much practice do you have drawing and deploying your bear spray? All responsible firearms owners that carry for whatever reason, practice, practice, and practice. When seconds count, that all that could separate life and death.

edit- and to the argument about marksmanship, if you did note in that youtube video, that hunter only shot into the water. The bang was enough to make the bear reconsider its actions. Dunno how reliable that is though...

BM

Edited by Ultra_Magnus on 09/29/2011 17:15:58 MDT.

Kier said "Bear spray is low cost, easy to deploy and easy to control.
...and lighter weight."

^ this!

I carry a firearm for work, which often takes me into grizzly country- I always carry bear spray with me when in grizzly country and I have no doubt what I'm grabbing for first if an encounter goes south, hint- it not the Sig :)

Apparently nobody carries bear flares instead of bear spray.

Bear spray works good as a stand-off weapon and you have 25 feet to work with.

A bear flare works good if the bear is at 5 feet or 2 feet. The only trick is that you need to have both hands free. One to hold it and one to pull the igniter ring.

--B.G.--

Not that I'm really looking to stir the gun debate pot again, but regarding this point:

One difference here is that a firearm may be shipped by air if it is in a locked container.
Why not just UPS it?

I wouldn't fly with any firearm I cared about anyways, seeing as how by some accounts baggage with the firearm tag are the ones that get "lost" by airlines the most.

Wow, 50% of people using guns to deter bears are not able to do so effectively.

Are 50% of the people using guns as bear deterrent irresponsible gun owners who failed to practice, practice, practice ?

Maybe a gun is just a horrible choice of bear deterrent ?

"Why not just UPS it?"

There are remote places (where I have gone) where UPS either can't or won't deliver.

--B.G.--

"Maybe a gun is just a horrible choice of bear deterrent ?"

Impossible to say, unless you know the details of each and every case they studied. Also, it's pretty safe to stay that studies can be "tweaked" to give you whatever statistical outcome you want, esp. on something as difficult to study as this.

BM

The only scientific study I've seen on this issue is titled "The Efficacy of Bear Deterant Spray in Alaska." You can google it. The numbers seem pretty solid as far as I can tell. The conclusion is basically that bear spray works best.
For the record I don't have a problem with guns so I'm not biased against them. If I thought guns would work better I'd carry one instead. I just think for stopping a grizzly I'd rather have bear spray.

If you do try to stop a grizzly with a gun here's what you're looking at (disclaimer I'm not a bear hunting expert this is just southern boy common sense)

1. A brain shot. This would be tricky to say the least. If you look at a bears skull it slopes back a lot. This means the bullet has more skull to penatrate and the bullet may just slide along the top without penatrating (modern tanks have sloped front armor for the same reason). Depending on the size of the bear I would guess your target area would be about 2-4 inches wide and coming really fast.
2. A shot through the shoulders which would hopefully break a shoulder, and tear up the heart and/or lungs. This is what most hunters do whether its a deer or a bear because its a much easier shot. The problem is it probably won't instantly kill a big bear so you have to hope it will cripple him enough for a follow up shot.
A shot through the shoulder also requires a gun with a lot of penatrating power. My understaning is that a .44 magnum can do this but only with the heavier loads that you have to go looking for (stuff at your average sporting goods store is going to be designed for whitetail deer hunting).


Pepper Spray is just way easier to use. It way easier to get a cloud of aerosal into a bear's face than it is to precisely place a bullet not matter how much you practice.

Again I'm not anti-gun, I just feel safer with bear spray in grizzly country. A gun makes sense in the following situations.
1. Sitautions where you had to fly into remote areas and couldn't get bear spray and something is better than nothing. This happened to us in Alaska so we took along a .454 magnum (man it was heavy and awkward).
2. Situations where enough rain and cold is expected that the bear spray may not work as well. Even than I think bear spray would work to a point. You can carry it in a chest holster under your jacket. Its still fairly accesible and it should stay warm. I assume rain could knock down bear spray but most sprayings are at pretty close range so it might still work.
According to the study wind was not a major problem for bear spray. I did notice a number of bears had to be sprayed more than once so I'd lean toward using the 13oz cans rather than the 7.9 oz cans.

Use which one works for you. The simple truth is that most people are not marksman and even those who are may, in the split second an unexpected attack occurs, have fear affect their shot.

If you're highly skilled with a firearm and can hit the sweet spot on a 1,200 lb. sprinting, killing machine then go for it.

Personally, I could not, so I would rely upon bear spray. Two canisters thank you.

>> Bear spray is low cost, easy to deploy and easy to control.
>> ...and lighter weight.

And multi-use! Is that Mountain Home breakfast scramble a little bland? Give 'er a squirt! Neighbors dog drop another steamer in the yard? Give 'er a squirt! [KNOCK KNOCK] No, I don't want to discuss a new roof! SQUIRT! No, I don't want to buy your cookies! SQUIRT! No, I won't vote for your man! SQUIRT! SQUIRT! SQUIRT!

In all seriousness, I've never packed either in black bear territory, but I think I would be inclined to carry both in grizzly country. Getting mauled is very, very low on my to-do list. More importantly, I'd want a hiking partner that was also packing spray.

I don't want to kill it, if I can make it go away. I'll take spray for a hundred Alex.