as long as there are not gun advertisements, I don't care where you put the advertisements.

Another thread on "What should I carry" and I am done.

Yeah, this definitely caught me by surprise!

"... ads attempt to stay relevant to the thread material..."

- There's an ad for Newton shoes under a post by John Donewar, aka Newton

"...ads only appear for non-members"

-I never really thought of that as an option. Could be a good call

"...ads on the top/sides/bottoms and not between the thread posts"

-Agreed. I would say to put the ads, if absolutely necessary, on the left-hand side. As an example, I think that the ads on Hendrik's 'Hiking in Finland' page are well-placed, unobtrusive, and fairly tasteful (i.e. NO flashing pictures, moving pieces, etc.). They almost just blend into the rest of the site. Placing them in between the posts distracts from the natural flow of online conversation.

"..if I see one more thread about 'what should I carry'..."

-How does this differ from seeing three threads in a row that all basically say "Which lightweight tarp should I choose?" or "Help me decide which frameless, Dyneema-X 2000-3000ci., under 16.5oz. backpack to buy!" ? Im not trying to instigate, I promise, but this just seems to happen with a lot of other subjects as well.

EDIT TO ADD that I find it SLIGHTLY humorous that the guy who posted a request for tighter restrictions on avatar size is sporting the LARGEST avatar in this thread =)

Edited by cwayman1 on 09/21/2011 21:22:11 MDT.

I'd rather pay $30 a year than have ads, but that's just me. Maybe ads will generate more revenue than raising membership price. As said before, if ads mean the survival of BPL, then so be it.

Clint, yea its a bit funny. I had just taken the picture and uploaded it because I was curious about avatar size. After noting how big it was I edited my post to mention it. Hopefully they take note as it might be a common problem.

My opinion:

Non-members - Keep the ads in between posts. Hell, make them even bigger.

Members - Give the option to turn ads on and off, as well as placement (in-between posts, right side, bottom, etc.)

An aside:

How many lines of ads can a post trigger? Lets find out.

A16 (4) Aaande Leathercraft (7) Aac (1)
Aadvark (3) AAE (1) AAI (58)
Aaron Irvin (25) Abas (3) Abbco Display (1)
Ab Biller (2) ABC Development (8) AB DOER (4)
Abec 11 (4) Abel (5) Ab Glider (1)
ABI (11) Able (1) Abo Gear (28)
About Color (30) ABS Allen Schwartz (127) Abs Collection (8)
Absinthe Films (2) Absolute Quality Products (1) A.B.S Silver Label (3)
Abu Garcia (37) Academy (25) Accelerade (5)
Accell (2) Accent (3) Access (1)
Accessory Brands (21) Acclaim Entertainment (2) Accucase (3)
Accudart (28) Accu-Measure (1) Accu-net (6)
AccuNet (3) Accurate (51) Accusplit (59)
Ace (11) Ace Gene (9) Acer (1)
A Chip And Pepper Production (1) Acl Distributors (2) ACLynn (5)
ACME (7) Acme Made (28) Acme Tackle Company (2)
Acopa (12) Acorn (232) Acp-Ep Memory (10)
ACR (57) Acs (2) Action (2)
Action Bicycle USA (1) Action Golf (4) Action Optics (1)
Action Performance Companies (89) Action Tec (1) Action Wipes (1)
Active Ankle (2) Active Helmets (2) Active People (3)
Activetool USA (1) Acuity (36) Acurrate (1)
Ada Handbags & Accessories (6) Adams (121) Adams Trail A Bikes (1)
Adanac (1) Adapta (6) Adaptec (3)
Addonics (3) Adea (4) A&D Engineering (7)
Ad-Gen (1) Adidas (6170) Adio (35)
Adirondack Maps (5) Adirondack Mountain Club (5) Adirondack Rock Press (2)
Adirondack Trails (4) Adk (18) Adobe (2)
Adrenaline (15) Adrenaline Promotions (21) Adrienne Vittadini (29)
Ad Tec (21) Adtran (5) Advance (1)
Advanced Base Camp (2) Advanced Elements (81) Advanced Graphics (10)
Advantage (1) Advantage Eng. Corp. (1) Advantage Sports Racks (16)
Adventure (2) Adventure 16 (6) Adventure Imports (1)
Adventure Lore Press (2) Adventure Maps (2) Adventure Marine (3)
Adventure Medical (226) Adventure Products (1) Adventure Publications (3)

These ads are not a big deal. Relatively unobtrusive considering a lot of sites have huge banners on the tops and sides with flashing lights and audio. I find it funny that people who refuse to pay the minimal $24.99 annual membership fee feel free to complain about how this site looks.

Ads are a tough one to get right because it's a touchy subject and there's so many options.

One thing many users may not realize is that ads do actually work. You can make a lot more money displaying ads than most people probably realize. I run a website that makes money just off advertising (Google Adsense). BPL is busier than my site and they're in a better market for advertising that my site, so it seems like BPL could do about $4000/month (very rough estimate) with Adsense ads at the top, bottom and maybe the side of each page. The downside to Adsense is that it's kinda ugly, although if it's fully integrated like my site (www.motorscooterguide.net) then it's not so bad.

Another option would be affiliate marketing where BPL gets a commission from sales that click from BPL. I know AvantLink has a pretty cool affiliate network that includes brands like ULA and REI. Check out Jason Klass's blog (gear talk) for a look at these ads. They look good, but on the downside the money is probably not as good, and it tarnishes BPL's objectiveness if they specifically advertise for one brand. A 'Buy ULA' ad next to a 'state of the market on packs' is going make the article look a little biased.

I would agree that I do love the minimal and aesthetically comfortable feeling that the BPL website had. I would also agree with eugene of having more Ryan and would really help BPL. If ads are the only way than please off to the side or top or bottom and not in between posts.

If it's possible to display them between posts for non-paying members, and off to the side for paying members, then I think that would be the way to go.

If not, then off to the side for everyone would be my preference (or top, or bottom).

1. Ugly.

2. Wondering how much click-through revenue these will really generate, as the kind of stuff on these ads is not commonly the stuff BPLers will buy. Or maybe I'm wrong.

3. At the very least, those paying membership fees should't have ads. Charging members an annual fee and then showing them ads is unconscionable. I understand there are other costs associated with the website and that the membership fee goes towards many expenses, but it's the principle of the thing.

4. Ads turn me off in general. As a person new to backpacking, I'd be quicker to jump to a different forum while browsing—but that's just me.

5. I'll be honest. I rarely read the articles—or at least not enough to justify the membership fee. I've ponied up the membership to keep the forum running, but if the forum has other sources of revenue, I'll probably stop renewing.


Might I suggest this article: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/podcast_making_unconventional_choices_better_life.html. It's by this great website that advocates for simplifying and, maybe, even, perhaps, living more frugally.

I saw some pretty good deals. There is so much confetti like this on web sites that don't notice it after a short time. It is better than tracking cookies running ads on the side.

Edited by dwambaugh on 09/21/2011 23:39:36 MDT.

And as a side note—I'd love to see BPL's financials.

It's none of my business, of course, but maybe if we had some idea of how the money was being spent, we'd feel a little better about the need for more money coming in the door.

These tiny ads are really not very noticeable. I do donate to another site that then gives me no ads between the posts but they are very large and obvious.

As to the threat of going to another forum without ads, good luck, they all have them and none are as informed as this one anyway.

I would say the bottom and sides would be preferable.

Agree with Alex. These ads aren't a big deal. Would I rather not see them? Sure! Especially since I pay a membership fee. Hide them for members & I have zero problem with it.

Ryan

Ryan,

"1. Provide context to the ads rather than random banners; and
2. Provide meaningful value to you (identifying sales and price competition).
3. Be reasonably unobtrusive."

On the stated goals, IMO, you failed at all three, and I just find it sad that our own BPL staff did it to us. ;-(

I understand the why, I just don't agree with the where one little bit. Put them across the top banner or on the side bar, not inside of posts on threads that makes it look as if I've gone into business and am taking advantage of all the members and guests on this forum!

You said, "...this is just a soft launch to see how it all works out."

IMHO it is not a soft launch at all! The software program is terrible at providing context related ads from information in the posts. It's not working out for me.

Clint said, " - There's an ad for Newton shoes under a post by John Donewar, aka Newton"

I make packs, quilts, tarps and bivies. I do not make or sell shoes! C'mon guys, move the ads and clean up the software.

Party On,

Newton

Edited by Newton on 09/22/2011 08:28:22 MDT.

Contrary to most, I too rather like these ads. They're small enough and easy to ignore in the conversation without cluttering up any of the clean real estate. Aesthetically as good as I've seen. JMHO.

I have found this site valuable over the past 2 years. I didn't become a member to get gear shop discounts, read member only articles, or really any of the other "M" perks. I try to keep my membership current in order to support the BPL business.

What I find most valuable, fun, and helpful are the forums. Sure, the information in the forums is generated by users (paying, and nonpaying), but there are still costs involved. There are plenty of forums out there that are not moderated, and in a matter of days they get clogged with junk. The bandwidth thing I do not quite understand. There are hosting services that offer unlimited space and bandwidth, so I'm assuming Beartooth Media Group/BPL is doing everything in-house. Are there certain things that can be outsourced to save money without giving up too much freedom over the site? I dunno...I'm just rambling. Ryan is the engineer, not me.

As for ads. I agree with some of what has already been posted. Ads for non-members, ad-free for members. That may be difficult to program though.

I was going to suggest using other media outlets for revenue, such as youtube. However, it seems that it would take several hundred thousand subscribers to be profitable. That's a large audience!! Seems like this has everything to do with the audience. This hobby/sport/recreational activity is a fairly specific one, so it's already a small audience. The current paying audience at this site is not large enough to sustain the current business model. So, it looks like we will be seeing several more changes at BPL in the near future. I have high hopes for this community!

@ Steven Paris,

Take a look at your own post as it looks right now.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=53576&skip_to_post=451255#451255

Did it look like that when you posted it?

Party On,

Newton

Didn't even notice until it was pointed out by this thread. I usually just quickly scan the posts to see if anything of interest was written and I guess I just scanned over the adds without noticing.

Guess I don't mind them.

If there are going to be ads, BPL should figure out how set up a system that allows cottage manufacturers to pay a small fee to the site and get a certain number of ads per month. I would much rather find a new vendor to support from the UL community than look at random ads from buffy knows what site. That would probably require native programming and not just implementing an available ad algorithm, but it also shows dedication to the actual people (and their ingenuity, work ethic, and willingness to support their own) this website has brought together and looks less like an impersonal monetization attempt.