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Diana Vann
(DianaV) - MLife

Locale: Wandering
Seeking advice on shelters made with metalized, reflective cuben fiber material on 09/21/2011 11:06:55 MDT Print View

I've been considering the purchase of a new pyramid type shelter for a while now, and I've read several reviews about heat build up in cuben shelters of this type. So I'm very interested in buying one made with the fairly new, reflective cuben material. An added benefit is the added privacy the reflective material would provide (at least I'm hoping it would). I've been corresponding with one of the cottage manufacturers, who is open to using the material if there's a demand for it.

Any thoughts, advice or words of wisdom would be most appreciated.

Also, I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who's also become interested in a shelter made from the reflective cuben material.

Tom Lyons
(towaly) - F

Locale: Smoky Mtns.
interesting on 09/21/2011 11:16:23 MDT Print View

I'm also interested in this material, because I have never heard of its existence before.

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife

Locale: www.hikelighter.com
Re: Seeking advice on shelters made with metalized, reflective cuben fiber material on 09/21/2011 11:23:38 MDT Print View

I have sent at least four message to Lawson Kline trying to find out information about this stuff and have never received a single reply from him - and he is the only person out there who seems to have worked with it (that I can find) - so I too am rather interested in knowing some details of this material.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Seeking advice on shelters made with metalized, reflective cuben fiber material on 09/21/2011 11:33:17 MDT Print View

I've got the Brooks-Range Rocket tent, which is made out of the material. I haven't had the opportunity to use it yet (it's definitely a winter shelter, you'd swelter in it in the warmer months). It would definitely give you added privacy - it was quite dark in the tent when I set it up in my yard in the middle of the day! (see pic here: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=48680&skip_to_post=413385#413385)

If you want a hands on look soon (before winter sets in when I want to use it), I'd be happy to mail it out to you so you can set it up in your yard and get a good look at the material, heat retention, privacy, etc. Then mail it back to me. Both ways at your expense, insured.

Let me know.

Rakesh Malik
(Tamerlin)

Locale: Cascadia
Re: Re: Seeking advice on shelters made with metalized, reflective cuben fiber material on 09/21/2011 12:15:59 MDT Print View

Lawson did point out that the reflective Cuben passes less light, and therefore swelters a less than translucent Cuben in bright sun. I have no personal experience with it, but it makes sense, since it's the transmitted light that heats the interior of the shelter.

In winter, there generally won't be as much insolation anyway, so your body heat would probably be your main heat generator, making up for the lack of solar warming, I'd guess. Again, Lawson and anyone who has one of his reflective Cuben shelters or a Brooks Range Rocket are probably the best people to seek confirmation from :)

Diana Vann
(DianaV) - MLife

Locale: Wandering
Re: Re: Seeking advice on shelters made with metalized, reflective cuben fiber material on 09/21/2011 12:22:31 MDT Print View

Doug,

That's a kind offer, but I'm very hesitant to borrow gear, even for a short time. I'm going to try to make it to the California BPL event in October. Will you be bringing your new Rocket to that event for "show and tell?"

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Seeking advice on shelters made with metalized, reflective cuben fiber material on 09/21/2011 12:27:22 MDT Print View

I'm not really sure what I'll be bringing, to be honest, haven't figured that out yet. Let me know when you decide whether or not you can make it in October. If I can make it as well, and you're going to be there, I'll bring the Rocket so you can have a look at it (as I'm sure others might be interested as well).

Diana Vann
(DianaV) - MLife

Locale: Wandering
Re: Seeking advice on shelters made with metalized, reflective cuben fiber material on 09/21/2011 20:01:27 MDT Print View

In an earlier thread (that Doug referenced in one of his posts on this thread), he said:

"Most of my cuben is the white cuben, but some is colored. The yellowish/green of the Cricket is pretty nice. The aluminized stuff blocks everything! More than I like, actually. I climbed inside my Brooks-Range Rocket tent during the day and it was nearly pitch black!

Are there any other owners of shelters made with aluminized cuben out there who can offer feedback about the lack of light inside?

Mark Hi
(markhi) - F
reflective cuben delaminating? on 09/23/2011 21:49:40 MDT Print View

Perhaps if the tent bottom has a high enough "bathtub floor", and if it's made of white cuben (which is the most transparent), that may let enough ambient light in to see inside the tent. Also, if the door or fly is open, there might be enough light inside to see.

My concern is that I was just told today by a tent maker that people have been having problems with the reflective cuben delaminating. I have not been able to confirm this by searching the web. It would be very informative to hear from anyone that has a reflective tent or tarp that is delaminating.

If there are no such problems reported, I think the advantages of reflective cuben (protection from heat and light as well as adding privacy) would be well worth it. But I'm only going by what I've read on the web.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Reflective Cuben Delaminating? - 6 month old news on 09/24/2011 00:18:48 MDT Print View

Mark,

On April 8 of this year I posted my test results, for the reflective CTF3 used in the Brooks Range tent, as a forum post entitled “Submission 42”. My testing showed a catastrophic failure of the adhesive used between the > .18 clear Mylar lamination and the aluminized Mylar layer after 3 cycles of simulated aging which approximates an average of 3 weeks of wet weather field use. The opaque yellow/green colored adhesive that Cubic Tech used on the other side of the lamination between their standard .08 Mylar and the Spectra fibers does not result in delamination. Also note that both the clear adhesive and the colored adhesives that they use for their other CTF3 variants, for both .08 Mylar and .18 Mylar, do not result in delamination from wet flexing. Cubic Tech purchases the Clear Mylar / Aluminized Mylar sheet layer prefabricated.

The “Submission 42” post can be found at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=45026&startat=60

The aging data for Submission 42 can be found in the post entitled “A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words”. In particular look at the notes for submission 42 in the “Summary Aging Chart Source Data” at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=45026&skip_to_post=399304

a

Edited by richard295 on 09/24/2011 00:22:38 MDT.

Mark Hi
(markhi) - F
Reflective Cuben Delaminating on 09/24/2011 05:03:48 MDT Print View

Richard, thank you so much for your extremely helpful reply! I will have to remove reflective cuben from my list of acceptable tent fabrics.

Ken Nguyen
(ninjapuppet) - F - MLife

Locale: B-Town
rocket tent delamination on 09/24/2011 10:22:42 MDT Print View

Richard, your research intrigues me.

I had a Brooks Range Rocket tent. It had survived winds over 150kph which flattened my Hilleberg Jannu so I was very impressed with the tent's design. However, it started delaminating badly after just minor usage so I sent it back to Brooks Range and they told me they couldnt figure out what happened, but it was apparently such a common problem to the point that its been taken off the market completely to be replaced with their Propel tent. Its basically a silnylon rocket tent.

They sent me a propel tent as a replacement + a jacket to make up for it. I've already got so many silnylon tents and would have preferred them do something to fix the delamination issues, but your research explains this issue.

Never had any problems with my cuben duomid so maybe Brooks should have just changed the type of cuben?

Edited by ninjapuppet on 09/24/2011 10:24:58 MDT.

David Drake
(DavidDrake) - F - M

Locale: North Idaho
Re: Reflective Cuben Delaminating? - 6 month old news on 09/24/2011 10:35:18 MDT Print View

Richard,
Thanks for your excellent work with the hydrostatic testing. In your opinion, do you think the failure with the reflective cuben results from a manufacturing defect (eg, poor QC or adhesive choice by the fabricator)? Or are there inherent (maybe insurmountable) difficulties using aluminized mylar in a Cuben-type lamination?

Diana Vann
(DianaV) - MLife

Locale: Wandering
Re: rocket tent delamination on 09/24/2011 10:50:31 MDT Print View

Richard,

Thanks for the incredible amount of work you spent testing materials. Thanks, also for the link to the results of the Brooks product testing. I was away quite a bit (on and off) for the past few months. Did I miss the results of Roger's sample testing or have they not been posted?

Ken,

The results with your Brooks Range Rocket tent seems to confirm Richard's test results. Thanks for posting. As great as it sounds to have a cuben shelter that reflects heat and enhances privacy, I'm going to take if off my list of possible shelter materials.

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - M

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: rocket tent delamination on 09/24/2011 13:17:39 MDT Print View

You da man Richard.

Ryan

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: rocket tent delamination on 09/24/2011 13:22:46 MDT Print View

Richard, its good to see you're still around these forums!

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: rocket tent delamination on 09/24/2011 15:49:19 MDT Print View

Ken,

The problem with the reflective CTF3 was primarily attributable to neither Cubic Tech nor the reflective CTF3 product vendors doing an aged HH test.

Changing the adhesive process used between the clear thick Mylar and the aluminized Mylar should be an inexpensive engineering fix. Their warranty costs and reputation costs are bigger problems.

Edited by richard295 on 09/24/2011 15:52:52 MDT.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Re: Reflective Cuben Delaminating? - 6 month old news on 09/24/2011 16:02:51 MDT Print View

David,

IMO it is a relatively simple QC problem to solve; see my comments to Ken's post which preceded yours.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Re: rocket tent delamination on 09/24/2011 16:18:22 MDT Print View

Diana,

Roger's sample testing results are scheduled to be published in a future BPL article.

David Drake
(DavidDrake) - F - M

Locale: North Idaho
Re: Re: Re: Reflective Cuben Delaminating? - 6 month old news on 09/24/2011 17:08:10 MDT Print View

Thanks, Richard.