Forum Index » GEAR » Male bayonet Butane canisters: why so much cheaper


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Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Male bayonet Butane canisters: why so much cheaper on 09/26/2011 03:51:51 MDT Print View

Hi Stuart

Actual weight? Very interested.

Cheers

Alan Bradley
(ahbradley)
Threaded 170g(net) canisters and can-top stoves on 09/26/2011 05:52:20 MDT Print View

A stabilising tri-pod/ cone could allow stable use of these threaded aerosol canisters (like the shown Camping Gaz one)...



Would be nearly full circle back to original EpiGas stoves (which used a big plastic stabiliser base and taller aerosol canisters), but, of course, I am suggesting an ultra lightweight stabiliser.

Possibly the tripod could support a windcreen (canister excluded): a commercially viable windscreen solution for canister top stoves?

Edited by ahbradley on 09/26/2011 05:53:58 MDT.

Stuart R
(Scunnered) - F

Locale: Scotland
Re: Threaded 170g(net) canisters and can-top stoves on 09/26/2011 10:07:18 MDT Print View

Hi Roger

The ones I have been using are branded Bernzomatic and are ~80g empty. Aside - I was hoping to find the Campingaz ones in France but no such luck.

Alan - there are good reasons why stoves are no longer mounted on top of tall canisters - stability and weight. A 'remote canister stove', where the canister is connected by a flexible hose, is even better.

Alan Bradley
(ahbradley)
But the tripod/cone would add the stability back on 09/26/2011 12:49:13 MDT Print View

<
Alan - there are good reasons why stoves are no longer mounted on top of tall canisters - stabilityand weight>

I thought a nice wide based supporting tripod / cone should add the stability back:

the 170 cans arent that tall compared to usual 220(shorter) or 500(taller I think) cans.

I was presuming the tri-pod/cone would be lighter than a remote stove at least for commercial stoves, and perhaps even for MYOG (because of the hose).

A an all in one stove like the Gasmate to bayonet adaptor on http://zenstoves.net/Canister.htm might be cheap and useful in summer (avoids the hose, thought I suppose this might imply a heat deflector was of use). Also, I know of no EU filler/manufacturer of bayonet cans, so less green in EU. Threaded campinggaz and gogas cans filled in France and UK respectively.

NB Primus "make"/import 170g threaded cans like that shown.

Stuart R
(Scunnered) - F

Locale: Scotland
Re: But the tripod/cone would add the stability back on 09/26/2011 13:39:21 MDT Print View

There are some very light remote canister stoves made by members here. Mine is 105g, I'm sure Roger has something similar, and Tony has one at an incredible 28g.

The availability of the different types of gas canister varies widely by country, someone made a list but I can't find it now

Alan Bradley
(ahbradley)
lightweight remote stoves on 09/26/2011 15:05:17 MDT Print View

"There are some very light remote canister stoves made by members here"

How difficult is that for non-metal workers?

105g is impressive, less than my can top stove

It would be nice if such things were commercially available...
how could manufacturers be persuaded?

Edited by ahbradley on 09/26/2011 15:08:59 MDT.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Threaded 170g(net) canisters and can-top stoves on 09/26/2011 17:52:25 MDT Print View

Hi Stuart

> Benzomatic
Just checking: some of that brand are not a butane/propane mix but something else - and are hotter than LPG. Do Benzomatic make butane/propane mixes as well?

Cheers

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: lightweight remote stoves on 09/26/2011 17:54:40 MDT Print View

Hi Alan

> It would be nice if such things were commercially available...
> how could manufacturers be persuaded?
True, but ... Companies have egos, and NIH reigns.
But we are working on it (as many readers know). Stay tuned.

Cheers

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Re: Threaded 170g(net) canisters and can-top stoves on 09/26/2011 21:50:49 MDT Print View

Roger:

Bernzomatic makes a variety of cylinders of gas including MAPP (not the original MAPP, but a substitute), propane, oxygen, butane etc. Not all Bernzomatic products are available in every location. The 7/16ths threaded cylindrical canisters that Stuart pictured aren't available in the US -- or at least I've never seen them, and I've looked.

Bernzomatic 480g MAPP and propane cylinders are widely available. Somewhat alarmingly, the connectors are the same on MAPP and propane cylinders!

HJ

Stuart R
(Scunnered) - F

Locale: Scotland
Re: Re: Re: Threaded 170g(net) canisters on 09/27/2011 01:57:44 MDT Print View

Hi Roger

They do in the UK: 35% propane, 65% butane. Sold in hardware stores for use with small blow-torches for soldering plumbing pipes. There is also the Taymar brand and I think Taymar and Campingaz are both owned by Coleman.

Bernzomatic gas canister

Antti Peltola
(anttipeltola) - F
Re: Male bayonet Butane canisters: why so much cheaper on 09/27/2011 03:02:31 MDT Print View

The Brightspark canister I broke was without tube and the contents looked clean. Though unfortuantely this does not mean all of them are clean, and now the seed of doubt has been planted :(

Anyone has experience on field maintenance of the MSR Windpro in case the dirty gas would block it? At least the tool that came with it does not contain anything to clean up the tiny hole in the jet.

Locally we have also available Siever gas cartridges that should be good quaility. The price is a bit bigger but stil less than Primus ones. Think I'll try them too on next winter.

http://www.sievert.se/default.asp?locId=1&langId=1&pageId=6&areaTypeId=2&areaId=22
(weights listed on the webpage).

Tony Beasley
(tbeasley) - MLife

Locale: Pigeon House Mt from the Castle
Re: Re: Re: Re: Threaded 170g(net) canisters on 09/27/2011 03:33:16 MDT Print View

The Bernzomatic canister where available in Australia through the hardwear chain Bunnings, but around two years ago they dissapeared off the shelves, my efforts to track some down since have been in vane, I am unable to find these particular canister on the Bernzomatic website.

Tony

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Canister availability on 09/27/2011 10:16:42 MDT Print View

It's ever so frustrating when the optimal canister is available -- elsewhere. When I was in Japan last year, I saw canisters perfect for an old stove I have -- canisters unavailable in the US. But there's no way to get them home.

Likewise, the Bernzomatic type canisters would be a nice addition to the canister types currently available, but alas it cannot be found here (at least where I live).

Good luck on finding some in Australia. Perhaps there are some on the back shelf of a small hardware store in an out-of-the-way spot?

HJ

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
100% Propane Canister Adapter for Backpacking Stoves on 09/27/2011 12:13:08 MDT Print View

Jerry Adams wrote: I'de like to be able to use my Lindal stove (like a pocket rocket) with a propane canister because they're cheaper

For car camping where I don't care about weight
Jerry, you can buy on eBay an adapter that will all you to use a 100% propane canister (the green Coleman 16.4oz/465g type) with a standard threaded backpacking stove: http://www.ebay.com/itm/140599310735

I haven't tried one, but supposedly they work. You'd have to be really careful with them. I wouldn't turn it all the way up for fear the flame might "lift off" the burner.

HJ

Edited by hikin_jim on 09/27/2011 12:14:31 MDT.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Threaded 170g(net) canisters on 09/27/2011 16:17:59 MDT Print View

> 35% propane, 65% butane.
Oh wow! That would be lovely!
But where to get them in Oz????

Cheers

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Male bayonet Butane canisters: why so much cheaper on 09/27/2011 16:28:45 MDT Print View

Hi Antti

Siever canisters - yeah, good stuff!
Powergas is 35% propane - good!
Ultragas - dunno % composition.
UltraMapp - in powermax-shape canisters with screw thread? Nice.
Premium quality propane in powermax canister with screw thread? Let me at it!

I must pursue this brand!

Now, cleaning the Windpro.
Remove valve and clean with tissue. Clean bore likewise. Remove jet and clean with soft matchstick whittled down or with fine SS or copper wire. Check this before you leave home. Crucial - do NOT use a pin or anything which might be too big for the hole in the jet!!!
Note that some jets have a filter stuck inside the bottom of the jet. This can get clagged up over the years. In which case you will have to remove it.

There is a technical article on stove maintenance in the field at BPL. Sorry - don't have the URL right now. It shows you how to do all of this maintenance. Apart from practicing doing this at home first, the other key teaching is to do all of the maintenance over a large white handkerchief or bandanna inside your tent, so you **don't lose any bits**!

Cheers

Alan Bradley
(ahbradley)
BlowTorch as stove for tall pots and cone? on 09/28/2011 10:44:52 MDT Print View

Now that the thread has started discussing the availability of tall narrow gas cans (for butane blow torches), why not a lateral idea:

for the usual tall narrow mug pots favoured by lightweight enthusiasts,
why not support the pot with a cone (caldera style), with sufficient lower input vents and upper exhaust vents BUT
cut a hole in side of cone thru which the blow torch head protrudes, heating the side of the pot. The gas can remains outside the cone so no overheating worries, and the pot is enclosed in a cone so (hopefully) efficient (is an enclosed cone as good as heatsink fins on jetboil style units I wonder?)


I wonder how light a (cheap?) commercial blow torch could be modified to be?

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: BlowTorch as stove for tall pots and cone? on 09/28/2011 13:00:05 MDT Print View

If the cone is aluminum, you'll most likely melt the cone. If the cone is titanium, it might work, but it'd be a bit of a shame to cut a hole in the titanium. And why not just use a conventional stove? You'd have a heck of a time aiming the torch correctly.

HJ

Alan Bradley
(ahbradley)
Re: Re: BlowTorch as stove for tall pots and cone? on 09/28/2011 14:19:56 MDT Print View

HJ said:
"why not just use a conventional stove?"
1) Allows efficient (like caldera cone) total enclosure in a windshield (hopefully close to that of a Jetboil), without need for a remote gas tube to cylinder.

2) the burner could possibly be light, without too many or too difficult mods.

HJ said:
"You'd have a heck of a time aiming the torch correctly."
I'm sure if the other benefits were compelling enough, a simple, consistent, and light way could be found, by BPL-ers.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Re: BlowTorch as stove for tall pots and cone? on 09/28/2011 15:16:27 MDT Print View

Hmm. Maybe.

Say you had something like this:


At least part of the canister is going to be within the cone. I'd be very worried about overheating.

I wouldn't think that the burner head on a blow torch would be any lighter than something like a Monatauk Gnat.

You could figure out a way to wedge rocks and such so that the canister doesn't turn I suppose, but it seems a bit kludgey.

But good ideas. Using non-standard canisters and such, you might come across something worthwhile. I don't think a blow torch with a Caldera Cone is it, but the ideas are worth discussion.

The best use I've found for the bayonet type canisters is refilling standard threaded canisters. :)



HJ