Why yes, yes I do understand.

We rarely buy beef any more. We now usually get buffalo from a buffalo farm in the north woods of Wisconsin. We go and buy the meat from the people who raise the buffalo themselves. As you drive to the farm, you pass acres and acres of fields where they keep their buffalo. There is no facility to house the animals. The only chemicals in those buffalo are from plants that have absorbed chemicals from acid rain.

My dad bow hunts. At the end of each season, we usually have a freezer full of venison for the year.

We often get salmon from a friend of the family who goes out and deep fishes the great lakes.

Thanksgiving ham usually comes from the Amish farmers in Indiana, where my wife's family is from. (But in fairness, I don't know how the Amish treat their animals )

The rest of the time, I try to get meat from responsible sources. I shop for meat at Whole Foods because it is the best that I can do. Comparing their record with any other large grocery store, I'll stick with them. I don't make a lot of money and Whole Foods is expensive. But I try to be responsible when I can, and I'm willing to spend the extra money.

I realize there will always be flaws with procuring meat from a store. However, I don't push my stance on anyone.

Edited by T.L. on 09/23/2011 13:43:33 MDT.

The irony of a pet owner admonishing meat eaters and their impact on animals.

> I have serious emotional breakdowns and hate the world at large so I just can't. I'd devote my life to the cause but I can't handle it. You really shouldn't pick at this subject, I try to keep it out of sight but it's never out of mind.

I'm sorry, but you opened the door a few posts earlier. You can't extoll the virtues of your beliefs then request others don't "pick at it" because you can't handle how the world works. I'm not gonna rip on your choices to be an ethical vegetarian, but again, you can't go on about how bad meat eaters are and then get upset and offended when people push back.

I meant in general ethicical vegetarians worry, feel guilty, or get consumed by animal suffering. To point and say "it's not enough" doesn't help us. I don't mind discussing this issue at all. If someone learns or takes anything away from the conversation I'm helping the issue. I get sh1t all the time for being a vegetarian, this is nothing new. People try to hurt us by talking about how much they love meat and saying stupid things like "animals were put here (?) for us to eat", "they wouldn't taste so good if we weren't meant to eat it". I get laughed at because "all I eat is grass". You think you hear it from vegetarians? Really, because it's like 100 against 1. I'm not trying to offend, I'm trying to educate.

"meat is not necessary. It's an outdated, thoughtlessly accepted way of life."

Says who? You? I think vegetarians chastising meat eaters is an outdated, thoughtless approach to your cause.

Nowhere was anyone chastised. The statement is true. A nutritionist will tell you to cut meat back to 2-3 times a weeks, a good nutrionist will tell you to be vegetarian and a truly great nutritionist will tell you to eat a raw vegan diet. I didn't believe it until I actually met someone that cured their cancer with a raw vegan diet which I think the diet of the future... if we smarten up. Me included. Why shouldn't we eat what is the most nutrient rich and healthiest. It only makes sense.

From Mayoclinic:
"Eat more fat from plants than from animals. In studies that looked at fat and prostate cancer risk, fats from animals were most likely to be associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer. Animal products that contain fats include meat, lard and butter. When possible, use plant-based fats in place of animal fats. For instance, cook with olive oil rather than butter. Sprinkle nuts or seeds on your salad rather than cheese."

Meat consumption has also been directly related to colon cancer too.

Is the title of your post a joke?

Do you believe that your posts are educating people here on BPL?
We are all always learning, but I have not heard anything new yet on this subject from you.
There are some good causes out there, but some people end up hurting their own cause..
FWIW I was a vegetarian for over 9 years, my 15 year old daughter has never eaten meat, and I eat it maybe once a week, but.....please!
A little humility goes a long way.

Edited by Kat_P on 09/23/2011 14:56:45 MDT.

Jennifer, I really, honestly have no problem with vegetarians or vegans. I do, however, become annoyed when they bring up the conversation and start to tell me how much better their lifestyle is than mine.

Obviously I don't know you besides this thread so it's hard for me to analyze the situation fairly, but maybe you get sh1t on all the time for being a vegetarian is because perhaps you conduct yourself like you have here? Again, that may not be a fair assessment, but how often do you have random people coming up to you for no reason at all and make fun of your vegetarianism? And if they do, how do those people know your stance on vegetarianism in the first place?

--------
"Nowhere was anyone chastised. The statement is true. A nutritionist will tell you to cut meat back to 2-3 times a weeks, a good nutrionist will tell you to be vegetarian and a truly great nutritionist will tell you to eat a raw vegan diet. I didn't believe it until I actually met someone that cured their cancer with a raw vegan diet which I think the diet of the future... if we smarten up. Me included. Why shouldn't we eat what is the most nutrient rich and healthiest. It only makes sense."
--------

There are so many holes in that paragraph....

The statement "meat is not necessary. It's an outdated, thoughtlessly accepted way of life." is true? Have you polled the 6.5 billion people on the planet? It may be true to you, but certainly not everyone.

What denotes a great from good nutritionist? Their propensity to subscribe to the vegan lifestyle? I think not.

I think its fantastic that someone was able to beat their cancer. And if eating a raw vegan diet helped, then awesome! But a singular anecdote does not prove a darn thing. I could point you to countless octogenarians that when asked what their secret to long life is, they'll respond "cigarettes and whiskey!"


"Why shouldn't we eat what is the most nutrient rich and healthiest. It only makes sense."
Is meat actually unhealthy? Or is it the fact that many people overindulge in it?

"The irony of a pet owner admonishing meat eaters and their impact on animals."

I don't know who this is directed at?

I've never sought out an animal. I have three animals that were all "owner surrendered". Including my snake from military personnel moving to korea and my two dogs were from two different (meth) addicts.

You're right, the impact for these animals were great. They lead incredibly spoiled happy lives from the ones they would have lead. The snake being passed around from one irresponsible soldier to another, one was to be drowned and the other was on it's way to the pound. Granted the one going to the pound is so cute I'm sure she would've been adopted. Lol but then brought back cause she's a maniac.

And they were both spayed immediately. I don't believe in breeding or purchasing from breeders.

"Why shouldn't we eat what is the most nutrient rich and healthiest. It only makes sense."

Because animals taste good. Meat tastes good. A porterhouse steak tastes better than good it tastes amazing. I eat meat for the same reason I made my son the old fashion way instead of artificial insemination, either one gets he job done but the old fashion way is a lot more fun.


"I have serious emotional breakdowns and hate the world at large so I just can't. I'd devote my life to the cause but I can't handle it. You really shouldn't pick at this subject, I try to keep it out of sight but it's never out of mind"

I think this statement says a lot about you. You have issues. Maybe you need to eat a 32 ounce porterhouse with your bare hands...it'll make ya feel all warm and buttery inside. Your heart rate will slow, your hands will be too greasy to type on BPL, and you will cozy up on the couch and enjoy an episode of The Kardashians while you metabolize that animal goodness.

So, just as the original poster predicted, things are now far off-topic.

My newbe observations: a firearm is a tool.

Some law-abiding citizens feel they have a fundamental right to carry this tool for a variety of reasons, and have no problem with those who do not.

Those who do not, however...

Edited by FarmHand357 on 09/23/2011 14:05:06 MDT.

Do you feed your snake vegetables?

From Mayoclinic:
"Eat more fat from plants than from animals. In studies that looked at fat and prostate cancer risk, fats from animals were most likely to be associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer. Animal products that contain fats include meat, lard and butter. When possible, use plant-based fats in place of animal fats. For instance, cook with olive oil rather than butter. Sprinkle nuts or seeds on your salad rather than cheese."

Meat consumption has also been directly related to colon cancer too.
-------------

In what context was those studies taken?

What kind of fats and in what quantities were they linked to cancer?

Who's to say that I do not already cook with olive oil instead of butter?

I'm from Wisconsin, so I'm not giving up my cheese. :)

I'm just pointing out that you're offering up very unsubstantiated posts with "information" and quotes that tell me nothing.

"Is the title of your post a joke?

Do you believe that your posts are educating people here on BPL?
We are all always learning, but I have not heard anything new yet on this subject.
FWIW I was a vegetarian for over 9 years, my 15 year old daughter has never eaten meat, and I eat it maybe once a week, but.....please!"

Please. You talk of peace on bpl but all you've ever responded to me has been a personal jab. Go ahead and insinuate that I don't know anything you don't. And yes, I believe people learn from discussions and are mentally stimulated whether they agree or not. But yes, that was a joke. And I take my apology back.

I know many vegetarians and I never see them get crap. But then again they don't carry about a holier than though attitude.

The rimfire revolver would likely help in a mountain lion attack. Better than a water
bottle or ink pen that others have used. Pepper spray would work too I postulate.

This just in--

"the mountain lion took a swipe, scratching the boy’s arm and hand, before the dad fired his rifle and scared the predator away. "

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/sep/23/idaho-boy-10-escapes-clash-mountain-lion/

>Meat consumption has also been directly related to colon cancer too.

AHEM! Care to clarify that? How about that it is only red meat that numerous studies *suggest* that can possibly lead to a risk for colon cancer.

In fact, the Harvard Medical School suggests dairy foods and fish to help protect from colon cancer:


"The study from England showed that large amounts of red meat can produce genetic damage to colon cells in just a few weeks, but it does not prove that red meat causes cancer. None of the cells were malignant, and the body has a series of mechanisms to repair damaged DNA.

Still, the research fits with earlier epidemiologic data raising a red flag about red meat. Instead of counting on your body to repair your damaged DNA, do everything you can to prevent damage in the first place.

In the case of colon cancer, there is quite a lot you can do. Keep your caloric intake reasonable and exercise regularly. Avoid tobacco in all its forms, and if you choose to drink, limit yourself to an average of no more than two drinks a day. Eat foods that have been associated with protection from colon cancer: calcium from dairy products (low- or nonfat); vitamin D; fruits; vegetables; whole grains; and fish appear best. Low-dose aspirin may also reduce risk. But even with all this, be sure to get the colon cancer screening tests that are appropriate for your age, family history, and risk factors.

You don’t have to give up red meat to be healthy, but the evidence suggests that you’d be wise to limit your consumption. Two 4-ounce portions a week should be safe; even then, choose lean cuts, trim away excess fat, and avoid charring your meat on a grill. Limit processed, cured, and salted meats as much as possible."

Imagine that. Eat fish and dairy to help protect from colon cancer. Limit your intake of red meat. Don't smoke. Eat healthy and exercise. That's a far cry from suggesting that if I eat meat I have an elevated risk of cancer. How about stop eating out at McDonald's several times a week as a starter.

Edited by T.L. on 09/23/2011 14:23:40 MDT.

>I know many vegetarians and I never see them get crap. But then again they don't carry about a holier than though attitude.

Exactly.

I applaud Jennifer in her vegetarianism efforts. I really do! But it doesn't make her better, smarter, or more evolved.

I'll post a comment. I have no problem with people who are afraid of guns/hunters or with people who choose not to eat meat - hey, it's a free country. As a hunter and meat eater, however, I am offended when those people either preach to me about my beliefs being wrong or, worse than that, act to create legislation that threatens my ability to legally do the things I love to do.

Jennifer, I can respect your decision to do your own thing, but your preaching is offensive to me. No less offensive than the thought of eating meat is to you. You say you wish that animal products were illegal so that living the vegan lifestyle would be less expensive and easier for you. That statement is one of the most selfish statements I've ever heard with respect to the meat or no meat debate. You need to take a long look in the mirror. Meat eaters and hunters don't do anything that cramps your lifestyle. You are free to go 100% vegan any time you want - all it takes is discipline and money. The fact that you choose not to make the change is entirely up to you. None of us meat eaters is stopping you. It depends entirely on your level of conviction...

Respectfully submitted,
Scott

"Jennifer, I really, honestly have no problem with vegetarians or vegans. I do, however, become annoyed when they bring up the conversation and start to tell me how much better their lifestyle is than mine."

I don't live the best lifestyle. I have the worst sweet tooth. I eat a large amount of junk I know I shouldn't eat but I'm at least glad I know it's junk. I believe that a raw vegan diet is the healthiest, I've read so much documentation of ailments it cures. I'm not dedicated enough to my health to drink kale smoothies just yet but maybe I will someday when it's failing. I'm open-minded though. I've looked into meat-favored studies too but as you see no one's backing the meat industry or the health of it.

"but how often do you have random people coming up to you for no reason at all and make fun of your vegetarianism? And if they do, how do those people know your stance on vegetarianism in the first place?"

I've never randomly walked up to somebody and made fun of someone's carnivorism but everyone knows I'm a vegetarian because at work functions when we have a bbq's they get special hot dogs or hamburgers for me and at family functions they make special food for me (i.e. stuffing without animal broth). When co-workers get wind, I get krap.
Yes, meat is actually unhealthy on all kinds of organs.

If this is goin to turn into at a cat fight....I think the "Kat" would win...ha

FWIW....my sister has been a vegitarian for 24 years. She went to the doc Wednesday for tests. She just texted me a few minutes ago the results. She has severe anemia due to being a vegitarian. According to her doc this is common amongst vegitarians. So I guess it ain't all its cracked up to be. Vegi's also can develope Pica...that's not fun. Think you get crap from eatin just grass, just think what people would say if you ate chalk,paper,hair,dirt etc....

Also....asparagus pureed taken daily has been known to cure cancer and kidney disease. Mybe the person ate asparagus evry day and that is what done it. Not the lack of meat.

I hate reading that stuff. It causes ME serious issues.

- I prefer to eat 4 ounces of meat per BITE, not per meal
- I eat most every red meat after charring it on a grill (call me a carcinogen snob)
- excess fat = marbling
- cured and salted meats = lunch