ok, I've been following this site about 4-5 years, can't remember for sure.
is it just me, or are there more threads dealing with just gear than ever before?
yah I know the site is sort of about gear, but isn't it actually about "anti" gear, and getting out there by going super light?

I figure you don't really need SUL for a short trip.

So who here " has " or " has NOT " taken a trip this year lasting longer than 3 days and 2 nights with their shiny SUL setup ?

Nah, well, yeah, well...
Sometimes we just hang out at Starbucks in Seattle and talk about our gear. Then we suddenly jump up, head to a gnalry peak and just shred our gear; we rip it to pieces, tear it on a rock. Yup(py), we really do ; )

"I figure you don't really need SUL for a short trip."

You figure wrong. I just posted a TR reflecting an overnight adventure with my young daughter. I carried the two person shelter (tarp)and ground sheet, both sleep systems (two 32* quilts, two pads, two bivys), all of the food and all other shared gear (including dog gear). All my daughter carried was her cold weather clothing (down jacket, base layers, beanie and gloves), her doll and two books.

My pack for the trip, a MLD Prophet, weighed just over 10 lbs, complete, with the gear listed above not counting food and water. UL gear works great for such trips with young children.

I take numerous solo, fast and light, overnight trips (two days - one night) covering 80+ miles and yes going UL makes such challenging adventures a joy.

"Do You Actually Use Your Gear?" I do, every chance I get.

Edited by thomdarrah on 09/19/2011 15:07:09 MDT.

Only when I'm using it!

I had a friend who looked a lot like me that used to say "I have so much lightweight gear I can't carry it all!" Seems to be a little of that around here too.

I don't have a piece of gear I don't use. I may not use it every time I go, as every trip dictates this.
When I'm without the wife and kiddo, I use a hammock. When its just me and the wife, as it will be this weekend, I take a Big Agnes SL2. When its all 3 of us I take a 49sq ft 4lb walmart tent. this also dictates packs. So I have more packs. Cold weather , warm weather, fishing-not fishing I have what would seem excessive gear to some. But I have the right tool for the job.
Do I NEED allof this gear? Do I NEED this gear to be SUL? Nope. But having what I consider the right tool for the job and the lightest I can afford does make my trips way more enjoyable! I consider this like a car. I could hook up a team of Belgian's every morning to a wagon to go to work. But I chose the car. I can go farther in less time and my body doesn't feel like I just rode in a wagon when I get to my destination.

And yes I've been on a 10 day trip this year.

Yup, every single piece. Of course I'm not using my pulk sled and 0 degree bag in the middle of summer but you get the idea. Although I wonder if I could put wheels on my pulk . . . .

I've only been around for a touch over a year, but I think there are just more threads than ever before.

This year, I've taken 3 trips that meet your criteria and wish I'd taken a couple more over the summer. For one of those, I brought my cousin along with an almost-complete kit from my alternate/older/retired/backup gear. I have one more planned (if my knee will cooperate), and then there are 3 more months to do even more.

I guess I don't use it all, but I use some a bunch. the rest I frequently question, and I will simplify tremendously after another season of use or lack thereof.

Art,

I started hiking 4 years ago when my wife's cousin got me interested in it. I started out with 5 pound pack, 4 pound tent and a 3 1/2 pound sleeping bag.

The pack is now 16.5 ounces. The tent became and still is a 13 ounce tarp and 8.5 ounce bivy combination. The sleeping bag is now a 14 ounce top quilt.

Here is the link to last year's trip.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/34542/index.html?skip_to_post=294515#294515

On the trip in the link above I used a 10.5 ounce MYOG pack and 16 ounce MYOG top quilt. The picture below shows everything but the pack.



I have since made a new pack and top quilt. I make, modify and use my own gear. My new pack is XPAC material instead of PU coated nylon and my tarp now has a zippered beak. My original top quilt was made with fabric and batting from Hancock's. My new top quilt is Climashield insulation and .9 ounce breathable ripstop from OWFInc.

12 1/2 pounds before and 3 1/4 pounds after for my pack, shelter and quilt. That is 9 and 1/4 pounds that I don't have to carry anymore.

I'll be leaving soon for another two week trip on the AT.

"Do You Actually Use Your Gear ? ?"

Yes, just not as often as I'd like.

My SUL gear listed above is all MYOG. It isn't necessarily shiny because I take multiple, shorter "equipment shakedown" trips so I do not get "surprises" on my longer trips.

Party On,

Newton

Most of my trips are quick opportunities that presented themselves. Going light allows me to focus more on being there in the short time frames. I don't always use everything but am learning I tend to do more with less.

For some trips, I have to haul group gear or other people's equipment and am no longer lightweight.

I've been in the backcountry at 10k feet for about three months this year. Some of the UL stuff was used all the time, but all of the UL stuff was only used for a short time. I'll be using the full UL kit more soon...just need my soleus to recover.

Went for a 10-miler in the RAIN yesterday. Believe me, I want to use my gear more! More day hikes this year.

SUL for short trips? Sure thing-- you can go farther, or at my age, make it at all :) Yes, I do haul more toys on short trips-- training weight, right?


USFS trail 1003, middle fork of the Snoqualimie river near North Bend, WA.
http://www.wta.org/go-hiking/hikes/middle-fork-snoqualmie-upstream

Edited by dwambaugh on 09/19/2011 23:23:31 MDT.

I don't have an SUL setup. My gear is now sadly out-of-date. I don't even think I can claim UL status anymore. (My gear is about 10-12lbs.) But I did do a few trips longer than 3 days and 2 nights last spring. Hope to do some more this fall or next spring. I got a new job and am still on my probationary period. I can start using my vacation time in November.

I have a few items I don't really use anymore. I've considered selling them. I have an Osprey Aura pack, but I keep thinking maybe I should hold on to it in case of the apocalypse.

I also don't use my Gossamer Gear G4 anymore, but since I used it to hike the PCT I have a sentimental attachment to it. Maybe I'll need it again. And who'd buy it with that stench embedded in the shoulder straps anyway?

Hi Art,

Maybe you can tell us about some of your adventures?
I looked through your posts and see mainly gear related posts and some chaff.

Maybe it is just a perception since most people don't write up trip reports?

J

Piper wrote: "I also don't use my Gossamer Gear G4 anymore, but since I used it to hike the PCT I have a sentimental attachment to it."

If I did the PCT, I would have it bronzed! :)

Unexpectedly working 6 days a week at my new civilian job (kaput on my evil backpack plans til November), but hoping to free up a "weekend" per week in 2012. Have a couple months off coming up, so looking at some trips but then its hunting season in the US ... Arrgh! I need a Christmas job, then a tax prep job (US - April), leaving the rest of the year for backpacking.

Indeed

I actually don't. Or haven't. Business has been insane for the last 15 months, so no time. Figure I need to make hay while the gettin' is good.

I have not taken a trip this year lasting longer than 3 days and 2 nights (well, not backpacking anyway). But even for shorter trips, when I do take them, I always borrow someone else's gear and never use my own. After all, if I used mine it would get dirty. Then it wouldn't be shiny anymore. And I loves me some shiny gear, which is why I also shave everything, but that's a different thread.....

Hi James
I'm as guilty as anyone on this site about not meeting the criteria I established in my initial post.
Maybe I started this post because I feel guilty about that.
My current excuse is I've spent the last 3 years trying to become a 100 mile ultra racer. So, many hours on the trails, but generally long 1 or 2 day trips.
Just got back from crashing and burning at mile 93 of the Wasatch 100.
Art

Art, seriously impressive! There is no way I could do that, or really desire to, but I am in awe of that sort of endurance.

I think one issue with light/ultralight/superultralight is that everyone is pushing the limit of what they are comfortable/safe with. Therefore there are many pieces of gear that go by unused because after trying it users decide it is beyond their limit or they already have a piece of gear that performs better.

In addition with all of the cottage gear maintaining its value much more than traditional gear in combination with the fact that most people never get a chance to touch/try cottage gear without buying it, lots of things get passed around gear swap 3-4 times until they get put to serious use. Most people here already own 3-4 shelters, a couple backpacks and a couple stoves.

Then you have the gear freaks who I heard one describe their fixation with "Some people spend money on cars, sailboats and other luxury items. My splurge is on shelters." So kind of a functional hobby of sorts to do with technology. Not all that uncommon for adults these days.

Edited by justaddfuel on 09/21/2011 10:52:52 MDT.

Art...
That must have been one hell of a crash and burn so close to the finish! What happened?

After nearly nine years of not hiking because of arthritis, I started again a year and a half ago. Soon thereafter I discovered this site and all the new lighter equipment. I have replaced nearly every piece of equipment from the old days, obsessively! Lightening the pack by more than 50% has been a Godsend, allowing me to get high again. I've been on two five day winter treks and a five day spring trek with my new gear and plan lots more winter treks this coming season. I also find the light gear makes day hikes more enjoyable and my hard-chargin' biking the same. Still, I probably spend more time on this site, on manufacturer and dealer sites, and thinkin' about gear than using it. But I use my stuff and love it.

Edited by Bufa on 09/21/2011 11:16:39 MDT.

My first silly post on this thread aside....I use my gear. This year the longest trip has been a three nighter; several two night trips and a few one night /two days. Last year I had some longer adventures.
I also use my gear in my day to day, other than shelter and pack, that is. All my clothes, from pants to down jackets to nice rain gear I use at work and during my weekend outings. I used my backpacking stove a few times at home when I had a problem with my gas stove. I now have permanent hardware set up for my hammock indoors, for when my back is sore....

i find many people use gear purchases as a substitute as what they would LIKE to do ... because of time, lack of will, family or other such, the gear becomes the psychological crutch for the lack of time outdoors

i myself have been guilty of this in the past ... fortunately with the ability to climb 5 days a week weather permitting, this year ... ive found myself LESS interested in gear unless i need it ... the gear i have been purchasing has been to replace "consumable" items such as climbing shoes, and older ropes

i find that the people i see who go out often, just do it ... regardless of having the "perfect" setup or not ... theyll make do and spend the money on gas, food, etc ... now there are some gear hoars as well who go out alot, but those tend to rotate through their gear pretty quick ... and use it well

while there is no doubt that having the right gear does help ... at the end of the day i tell people that the shiny new dead bird harness does not make you a better climber even though it costs 3x more ... nor will all those fancy shiny cams make you a safer climber if you dont get the mileage to learn how to place em ...

my advice to people is to get the gear you need ... no more than that ... and spend the rest of the money on courses, trips, beer and women

and dont worry about using up yr gear ... its there to give you a good time ...

James wrote:

"Then you have the gear freaks who I heard one describe their fixation with "Some people spend money on cars, sailboats and other luxury items. My splurge is on shelters." So kind of a functional hobby of sorts to do with technology. Not all that uncommon for adults these days."

People have collected and surrounded themselves with objects since time began. We are surrounded by techno-toys of all kinds and we collect everything under the sun. My pet theory is that it is part of our hunter-gatherer nature. I sold cameras in the early 1970's and I saw many who bought cameras like they were jewelry and even some who wore them the same way. It doesn't surprise me that hiking gear would be the same.

Art,

Your post brings up a point.

Maybe it is not the number of days out, but the distance traveled into the backcountry?

Isn't the point of all this shiny gear to allow us to get outdoors and enjoy.

Whether you travel super fast or slower, point is just getting out there and enjoying.

Maybe the number of miles hiked in the backcountry to see more stuff vs. the number of days?

Either way, as long as you get out and enjoy the outdoors, the gear is secondary....just a means to an end.

-Tony

I do use my gear, although I have multiple sets of some things. That's because I often go out with the grandkids, requiring larger pot, bigger tent, etc. I acquired a tarp last spring for fall camping, but haven't I yet used it because of our late snowmelt and (so far) warm fall--the bugs are still bugging, and I'd rather use a tent when it's buggy (tarp plus ground sheet plus bug net big enough for my dog and me weighs as much as the tent!). As soon as those bugs go away....

However, I do have a few surplus things I've replaced with items I like better. A few items have become "loaner gear," but a few are just taking up space and I do need to get rid of those. I also still have some of my old heavy 1980's stuff, which I need to give to Goodwill or the Salvation Army. I can't carry it any more!

Edited by hikinggranny on 09/21/2011 12:42:34 MDT.

Craig
Re crash and burn ...
basically my back went out on me, couldn't stand up any more.

Edited by asandh on 09/22/2011 07:05:44 MDT.

I use all my gear. If not, they go on gear swap.

I've only done UL/SUL for a year and a half, so I still consider myself a newbie. I wasn't around for the spinnaker revolution, and just came in for the silnylon/cuben stuff.

But thanks to this forum and articles(when i was a member), I was able to hone my gear list down. Luckily for me, when I was a TRAD backpacker, I never used a tent, water filters, or stove. It was an easy transition for me to get into tarps, aquamira, and esbit.

And James in an earlier post made a great comment about gear that gets unused, and swapped around. I love the comment, and totally agree.

"My gear is now sadly out-of-date. I don't even think I can claim UL status anymore."

Does gear get heavier as it ages? I sure hope not or I've got a lot of new gear to buy :)

Edited by dandydan on 09/25/2011 09:48:39 MDT.

I dont exactly meet the criteria as my trips are all weekend excursions with my ten year old son. We did one this past weekend though that consisted of a long grueling 3/4 mile hike in to the river :) The thing is though, we had all of our gear since we were camping for the night. And I learned a few things about my gear while we were out...or at least finally came to the conclusion that certain gear systems just werent working for me, namely the cat food can stove I've been using. I finally had enough of it...it's just too much fidgeting for me. Even though it's lightweight and it works great I find myself not having fun when I have to use it...and I go to have fun :)

I came home and built a caldera cone knock off complete with pepsi can stove and a gram cracker esbit stove knockoff to get the correct height for the esbit to use the new system as well. I tested the alcohol and the esbit and it was soooo much easier to get a boil even with the winds kicking up as a cold front moved in. I was in love! So, the next thing I tried was everclear...and of course it worked great too, so I've got a new multipurpose item to carry the next time I go out without my son ( i never ever ever drink around my kids, not even a shot) The new system weighs an ounce or two more, but those ounces are so worth not having the hassle I am willing to add it in.

So, I used my gear this weekend, came home and refined some of it, and had a great time in the woods with my son catching crawdads and wading the river.. I also refined the sleeping pad Im using for a framesheet, but thats something Ive been thinking about for a long time so it doesnt count for what I learned this weekend :)

I don't meet the criteria set out by the OP. I have not had a chance this year to take trips more than a long weekend on the trails. However, I will say that as for "do I actually use my gear..." the honest answer is: most of it. And most of what is extra is intentionally kept as loaner gear.

A lot of the time I spend camping is one-night trips, taking people who have never been before (or who have never enjoyed it). I love introducing people to the outdoors, and for better or for worse, part of doing that is usually having the gear available to make it enjoyable for them If that means there are extra 2# sleeping bags on the shelf, then so be it.

People who have never been backpacking don't have the gear that would make it enjoyable -- 5# sleeping bags, Jansport daypacks and 6-person Coleman tents aren't meant to be carried up a mountain ... not even the little 3000-4000-footers we have here in VA.

As for me, I'm still well in the learning process as far as simplifying gear. Living in the city, I don't have a yard for testing gear, so all tests must be on the trail, so I look at a lot of our trips out as a chance for testing equipment and refining setups that I hope to use soon for longer trips.

My wife and I also have a gap in our fitness/comfort levels that we are working on. I'm comfortable with less ... and she is slowly moving that way (I'm proud of her), but when we met a little over three years ago, she had never slept in a tent before. So she's come a long way. We bought a tarp recently on the gear swap here, and are probably using Christmas as an excuse to buy bivies for one another.

As I've been simplifying, I've been doing what most people here do, and getting rid of extra/heavier gear. Three years ago, my only tent was a 9.5#, 4-person Kelty; that was replaced not long after by a pair of Mountain Hardwear 2-3 person tents in the 4-6# range when I found a good sale (need the extra space for taking friends).

Now we've got a Tarptent Double Rainbow, and are eventually hoping to have that and a tarp/bivy setup as our primary/secondary shelters. And so the camping shelf gets lighter and more functional over time... and gear either gets used or sold.

I agree with others that for many of us who don't have enough free time to spend on the trail (not nearly as much as we would like), gear talk helps us live on the trail in our minds, despite our bodies being trapped at home or at the office.

It also helps us be ready to go, so that when we do have a free week or weekend -- or even just a weeknight where we don't have to be in early in the morning -- we can take off without having to think too much about what we need: we have the "Go Box" ready and waiting.

Two 8 day trips in the Upper Kern Basin and Kaweah Basin this year. About par for the course the past few years. UL but not SUL. Base weight 9.3-10.3 depending on how late in the season I go in. Food is 19.3 oz/day, so I'm carrying less than 20# when I start. I don't do trip reports as a general rule. Only one to date, back in 2009, but I figured that was a trip worth sharing. I'm not much on the shorter trips, but will throw one in occasionally at the end of the season if I have enough left in the tank and the weather cooperates. Gettin' old, I guess.

Perhaps this should have been posted in the SUL forum, since it seems to be focused on SUL gear.

That said, I disagree with the initial premise that you don't "need" UL gear for a short trip, which I'll just take to mean that there's little benefit. Why not? Most of my trips are short, one-, two-, or three-nights, and a small, light setup works great. Even on short trips, it's much more comfortable to carry a lighter pack. Also, an UL setup is nice for short trips, because there's less of a barrier to entry.

What I like best about being UL is that I can turn any dayhike into an overnight if I just feel like I'm in the mood to stay out. It seems like one of the biggest risks when day hiking is spending an unexpected night outside. If your overnight pack only weighs 6 or 7 lbs, you can use that pack for any trip regardless of weight.

Overall, I don't really care about the length of a trip in terms or miles or consecutive nights, I just try to get as many nights out as possible, within the confines of my schedule. If I get out of work at 4:00pm and it's a nice evening, I might throw on my pack and hike two or three miles into the woods, wake up early and hike out, and be at work at 8am.

Edited by vinovampire on 10/04/2011 20:49:33 MDT.

Tom,

I sure wish you would quit talking about the Upper Kern Basin. You are going to encourage more people to go there, and I think we should keep it to ourselves ;

I am pretty fortunate to get in a lot of trips of varying duration every year... and the past couple of years my tent trailer camping has suffered with a greater focus on BPing. But my wife is not liking that. I rarely take a camera or take pictures when I do hike. Just too much work. When I do a trip that my kids may enjoy or I would like them to keep for after I die, then I write them a story and usually post it here. Typically one per year... I don't want to bore them either... not too mention the BPL members.

You bet I do! I'm able to do more short - 2 night - hikes than longer, but got in one week long trip this summer. I use my light weight gear on all of them. I can't think of any reason not to!

"I sure wish you would quit talking about the Upper Kern Basin. You are going to encourage more people to go there, and I think we should keep it to ourselves ;"

That was my policy for many years, Nick, but I think the word has already gotten out. Of late I have observed with considerable consternation, maybe grief is a better word, an increase in visitors of the wrong kind. I have spent considerable time and effort cleaning up after them. Maybe I'm starting to think that a small influx of the right kind of people, like the good folks here on BPL, might be of benefit. Hopefully they would help with the clean up. In any case I don't think there will be a stampede, as there isn't any easy way in. As for me, I've had the place pretty much to myself for the majority of my 38 seasons down there and I guess I couldn't expect that to go on forever. If I were you, I'd make it a point to get back up there sometime soon. Things are changing fast, and the Upper Kern Basin isn't going to be the Upper Kern Basin you knew and loved much longer. To give you an idea of how far and fast the rot is spreading, I even found a mylar candy wrapper up in Kaweah Basin this year to go with a plastic ground cloth I found up there two years ago. It literally reduced me to tears. As I remarked to my partner, a devout Catholic, it was akin to pi$$ing in the Baptismal. He just shook his head and squeezed my shoulder. But, yeah, I understand what you are getting at.

I signed a pretty intense job contract that precluded getting out beyond a Sunday dayhike, it was a conscious choice.
In the process I gave nearly all my SUL stuff away to see that it got used.

Let's see...a total of five trips, twently days on the trails, about 150 miles all told. Most of those were in Yosemite, but we also hit Mono Creek out of Lake Edison, and Machu Picchu.

Do we have equipment we don't use? Yeah, but we keep it around because that way we can loan it to people like our daughter and future son in law, who joined us in Peru...

Dude - I even use mine to get away from the kids by going to the back yard. I use it to eat lunch at work, I use it to backpack, and believe it or not, I loan it and am teaching a class at my kids middle school focusing on the ten essentials, LNT, MYOG, and BPLing it.

"Hi, my name is Jason, and I am a BPL-a-holic!" Everyone say hi Jason!!!

Hi, Jason!
I was told that I must be the only guy on the planet to "get away to the backyard". That make two of us now... a 100% increase!
Used my MYOG woodgas stove to hold an alchy burner and rehydrate lunch at my old job. My new boss said "no" to the burner-on-the-desk-thing, but I do keep a 1.3 l ti pot at the office to make quick lunches on their gas stove.
Really? Some people DON'T use their gear? I don't own much gear but it does get out on weekends and gets used during the week at home. Either I'm using it or my sons are.
Now if I could only walk into the neighborhood thrift shop and find a UL courier bag made from dyneema gridstop with padded shoulder strap or maybe even one made from cuben for those daily bike commutes to the new job. THAT would make my life pretty much perfect!