how are these so light??? even WITH a zipper?

http://www.zpacks.com/quilts/sleepingbag.shtml

I'm assuming it's the inside fabric.

also, I wonder if Joe would make these without the zippers to make it a true quilt

Saw these earlier today.

Pretty nice weights he is hitting for the given temps he is stating.

No hood so that is something to keep in mind (and a reason why it is a few ounces lighter).

Not so sure I like the idea of a zipper on the bottom. If a person uses a pad on the inside of their bag, it would seem like it would make it all the much harder to get unzipped for the 2am call.

I am sure Joe would make one w/o a zipper. Would probably save well over an ounce.


Does anybody out there uses a 20 degree bag that does not have a hood?? (honestly wondering)

Is it just me or do these seem like really good value too?

I like Joe's innovation and practices. He's a talented guy.

I need the wide width with the 62" girth for my shoulder size.
After looking at the down weights in the bags, I have to suspect that the ratings are optimistic. I would count the 20-degree bag as actually a 30-degree bag in the real world. WM has 19 ounces of down in a similar size wide bag, compared to 11.4 in ZPacks, for the same stated rating. Take maybe an ounce or two off for the hood of the WM, and it still comes up at least 4-5 ounces short.
I would ask for another 30% "overstuff" if I was ordering. The last place I want to save weight in the winter is in the down insulation in my bag.
It's already very light with those fabrics he uses. Give me the down that I need, and I'm happy to carry that when it's cold.

Just my observations, and no slam intended to Joe or ZPacks because I think they do great work and I'm really a fan.

This is exactly the quilt I'm looking for. (Damn that Joe. He's sending me to the poorhouse. ;-)

Those danged straps on other quilts are a nuisance, IMO. They make the quilts hard to get in and out of in the middle of the night. I'm forever getting tangled up in them. I ended up cutting them off of my Nunatak, which is otherwise an excellent bag.

Stargazer

Looked at as a quilt, the temperature rating seems accurate.
GoLite 3 season quilt, 56 inch shoulder girth, regular length, rated to -7 C. Fill weight 335 g of 800 fp. 335x800=268,000.
Zpacks 20 degrees, 56 inch shoulder girth, medium length, rated to -7 C. Fill weight 298 g of 900 fp. 298x900=268,200.
The difference with WM is probably down to the hood, and the WM's shoulder girth of 64 inches

Wow, Zpacks does sleeping bags now?

@John. If you are going to use it as a bag why not put the zipper on top? Easier at 2 AM.

I think I would be good to 20 without a hood. With a merino buff and Kat's hat I was plenty warm at Coe at 25.

Your Black Rock hat and a balaclava, I think you would be fine. Keep that torso warm.

Nice bag/quilts! I emailed Joe Valesko and asked about the foot and hip girth on these. I had decided on the Katabatic Palisade wide quilt but I might opt for the 20 degree version of this one

Just an FYI
He's using a little bit less loft than some of the premium companies for his ratings. Western Mountaineering, on their site has the Ultralite (20 degrees F) listed as 5 in. of loft. Or, 2.5 inch per side of the bag I assume. He's using 2.2 inches for his measurement for the same temp. of bag. So they won't be quite as warm as the western mountaineering bags... I guess... Feathered Friends uses the same measurements for loft as western mountaineering. It looks like JRB uses even more loft than WM of FF.

Still looks like a sweet bag though. If only there was a universal consensus on how much loft was needed.

I'm not really a fan of having the zipper underneath me, That just sounds uncomfortable...

There's a pretty solid guideline on thru-hiker.com's site, that's been the baseline for a while, and from my experience, it's about as accurate as can be.

Generally speaking, I always target 2" nominal loft for 30deg, and 2.5" loft nominal for 20deg, and usually observe more like 2.2 and 2.75, with the same 900fp down that Joe is using. That being said, I've been accused of making quilts too warm by many users, and considering the enclosed nature of these bags, they may be more efficient, I couldn't say.


I would definitely ask Joe for the actual "usable" flat widths or circumferences of the sections of bag you're interested in knowing the "girth" measurements for, since "girth" has become an ethereal and never consistent spec.

I do know that the fabric widths of the shell materials he's using aren't wide enough to accommodate those girth specs once linear shrinkage and hems allowances are factored in, without joining to panels horizontally, which doesn't appear to be the case from the pictures.

That being said, girth numbers have often not added up to real world fabric widths, with many mainstream manufacturers, so I'm not sure what the baseline is.



Looks like a nice option for back sleepers from Zpacks, with a *lot* of top end materials, for a very reasonable price.

Edited by jdempsey on 09/18/2011 17:59:54 MDT.

"I do know that the fabric widths of the shell materials he's using aren't wide enough to accommodate those girth specs..."

Unless the shell is pieced, invisibly, along one of the baffles.

..just saying...

That's where the disclaimer of: "without joining to panels horizontally, which doesn't appear to be the case from the pictures." comes in. ;)

It's certainly possible, I'm just saying it doesn't "look" that way from the photos. Easy enough to clear up. I'm definitely not trying to make any implications. I've just seen the "girth" term bandied about inconsistently, such that I'd just like to see it done away with entirely. (A personal pet peeve, I admit.)

I'm not trying to disparage Joe's new product at all, and I certainly hope nobody thinks I am. Joe is a friend, not competition.


edit: to clarify, I probably should have said, without joining horizontally cut panels vertically, as that would be a more apt description..

Edited by jdempsey on 09/19/2011 00:10:56 MDT.

I need to stop coming to the BPL forums, because every time I hear about something new like this, I have this urge to clean out my bank account.... dang, those look fine!

I received an email back from ZPacks and Joe Valesko says that the foot box girth tapers from 56 or 62 inches at the shoulder to 28 inches at the toe for the regular and wide models. That does seem small compared to the Katabatic quilts. Maybe I just need to see one in person.

Edited by heathpitts on 09/19/2011 06:18:01 MDT.

@Ken,

You do know how I love my Black Rock hat :-D

A potential problem with putting the zipper on the top would be that the zpacks website indicates it does not have a draft tube.

"I'm not trying to disparage Joe's new product at all, and I certainly hope nobody thinks I am. Joe is a friend, not competition."


-Javan: I, for one, was surprised to see Joe enter a market that is quite saturated. As you and I know, there are about 10 of us that make Top Quilts.. perhaps Joe does not know this, as many of our products are sold primarily to HF's members, but I would wonder what his motives were to enter this market. With the amount of TQ's that I sell, this does not seem to me like a huge demand.. UQ's on the other hand.. :)

Edited by mikeinfhaz on 09/19/2011 10:20:14 MDT.

The creation of a one stop shop is appealing to me and other consumers. I also like the fact that he is using top fabrics initially. Great price point!

Always glad to see more competition as it benefits the consumer. Although, instead of bringing more of the same products to market I would rather see cottage mfg'ers bring their wait times down to reasonable levels. 7-8 weeks is crazy.

Ryan

@Te-wa: I think Joe has hit another market where there is significant weight to be saved. He's pushing SUL weights within reach of LW hikers. The use of SevenD fabric makes his product unique (albeit in a novel fashion), and his weights for the cost are more than competitive.