Hi friends,

So I will be getting into more winter trips in the state of PA and am looking for a pair of softshell pants. Please talk to me about the pros and cons of some of your favorite pairs on the market for winter backpacking.

I will be climbing Rainier sometime in the no so distant future, and I would like to use the same pair for that trip. So I think they should "idealy" have enough room to put on an expedition weight base layer.

Is there one out there that works in both situations?

I've seen some of the Patagonia and Outdoor Research pants get good reviews, but I would prefer your first hand experience.

It must have a fly. 2 way fly would be best...

Thanks.

I use their (Patagonia) rock guides for winter and shoulder season- lightweight, but still pretty darn tough- the DWR finish is very good. They stretch nicely and I like the fact the come in true waist size vs xs-xl.

Their next one up (heavier) in their lineup is the lightweight guide pant- it does have a two way zipper, I'll have to have someone else chime in on their performance though- appear to more of a true climbing pant

I love my Tremor pants. You mention OR so you've probably seen them. "Yes!"

I have several pair. My favorite are a Schoeller pant from REI that they no longer sell. It's breathable, sheds wind/snow/light rain beautifully, warm, moves and stretches very well, very durable. I like the basic pants (with articulated knees) so that I can add insulation underlayers, if needed, depending on the conditions - rather than a pant with any dedicated layers of insulation or lining. I definitely recommend looking into pants made with a Schoeller material (there are a few versions).

appreciate the info and have some questions...

how do the patagonia rocks do in the snow?

what do you like about the tremors?

what other pants are specifically made with the schoeller fabric? i see eddie's light guide pants use it. others?

the rock guides do great in the snow- use them all winter long snowshoeing :)

MEC Ferrata (a pretty good price as is most MEC stuff) and I think the Patagonia Guides used Schoeller, maybe Mammut Glacier pants - can't vouch for any of these as I don't have them myself. Just answering your question about what other pants are made with Schoeller. Actually, a lot of companies have used it and a search for Schoeller pants will get you started. There is a lot more to a pair of pants than just the material so do get info on specific pants. I'm just offering a suggestion about good materials based on my limited experience (especially the dryskin extreme version of Schoeller).

I only have stretch woven pants to compare them to (no other softshell pants anyway)

I wear them in the PNW and only get wet if it is straight up raining. They shrug off anything from light rain on down in temp. I used them to hike around Crater Lake in Jan and they were awesome but it was 3 bluebird days... not much "testing" in ideal conditions. I have snowboarded in them and they worked well. The big thigh vents are welcome when it gets hot and there is plenty room for me to layer in the legs/ knees.

they seem a little long for me. 5'10" 175 size L

pretty dang wind proof (sorta pregnant)

Arcteryx gamma SL pants. or the AR version. use them almost year round alpine climbing. I also use the patagonia simple guide pants too. two weekends ago tho here is was around 0C on the summit of MT Athabasca and had crazy winds on the summit ridge. The gamma LTs worked like a champ.

And it gets cold here in our winters way up here. Like -40C

thanks again for the info. more questions...

how do the rock guides fit? my legs are big and i can't wear some of patagonia's "slim cut", otherwise i'd really like the backcountry guide pants.

do the OR pants ever overheat? i'm slightly concerned about the 'light lining'?

what do you like so much about the arcteryx's?

+1 on the Arcteryx Gamma LT pants- I wear them almost year round also.
A little on the pricey side, but they have been through 2 years and still look new.
I also have relatively big thighs and they have plenty of room
The fit is nice and they have a little elastic so you can move up high steps without a problem
They dry quick if you get rained on
They don't show dirt, although if they ever make them in tan, I'm buying a pair
The grey color is the lightest they have, but I have worn them in 100 degree days without too much trouble.
They have also kept me comfortable (with a baselayer) on a windy, cold night- temps in the 20s and 30s.
The pockets are nice and deep, and zippered so stuff does not get lost
Although the zippers are the one thing i'm not thrilled with on the front pockets- I like to stick my hands in my pockets and can't do that without putting the zippers down. The right leg pocket is nice- holds first aid kit, meds, phone, compass.
Still my favorite pair of pants after two years.

Edited by JennyMcFarlane on 09/05/2011 00:02:26 MDT.

the rock guides imo fit "medium", not loose, but not tight- my legs are a little on the big side as well and the stretch in the pants seems to mitigate any lack of looseness

like anything if you can try before you buy (or places that have no hassle returns) you'll be ahead of the game

Whatever fits

I use dead bird gammas lt n ar ... But most of those woven softshells are the same if u ignore the marketing

If you go to outlets and discount stores you can find them really cheap ... No need for brand names on something that simple

The REAL decision is between a woven or membrane softshell regardless of brand ... And that depends on how cold it will be ...

For winter snowshoeing or x-country skiing, I really like pants made with Polartec Power Shield fabric. It's highly water resistant but breathable and reasonably lightweight.

Sierra Designs makes fine Power Shield pants and jackets for half the price of the dead bird.

Thanks everyone! more info please.

Eric, can you explain a little bit more to me about the woven vs membrane. Which one works in which condition? Which you prefer and why? Living in central PA is terrible for finding real life gear. NOBODY sells anything like this around here. :(


Jenny thanks, I will put the LT's onto my short list with the OR tremors.


Mike I really like the sounds of the Rocks based on your endorsement. I'm just hesitant that they will be a bit too thin for winter use. Although if you're saying you use them in Washinton winters then I guess I shouldn't be huh?

i picked up a pair of cloudveil rayzar pants a couple of years ago off of ebay. they are made of schoeller dryskin which sheds water like a duck, and is both highly breathable and wind resistant. the seat and knees have a layer schoeller wb 400 for that extra bit of abrasion and water resistance. it's nice to be able to sit, glissade or kneel and not worry about moisture intrusion. they are not the lightest pair of pants, but are bomber, perfect for winter and early spring/late fall at altitude.

the one issue i have with them (and pretty much all of the non-membrane soft shell pants) is that the ankle zipper does not go high enough to allow the pants to be removed over boots. this is mitigated by adjusting your layers during the day over the pants and not under them. i've done multi-day trips where i've never taken off my soft shell pants and the layer im wearing under them. i've owned gore windstopper (membrane) pants and they don't breath nearly as well as a woven soft shell.

for mild to cool i really like the the rei mistral pants. they are pretty simple and well thought out. they are lighter than the rayzar pants, but also offer less protection. for (late) spring thru (early) fall these pants would be great for rainier. as a point of refrence, on rainier i'd typically be wearing running tights and gym shorts to base camp. i just wish the mistrals came in a light color. i've cooked on a glacier/snowfield in black pants.

in regards to fit, i cannot imagine you'd want to layer an expedition weight base layer under a pair of soft shell pants, even on rainier except maybe on the coldest of days. if it's cold, my base layer is typically running tights or light weight capalene. if it's really cold i will have a pair of puffy pants to go over the top for belay duty or extended stops. with soft shell pants i've also pretty much stopped taking hard shell pants. they are almost never needed. i do sometimes carry a pair of epic wind pants.

josh ..

there are basically 2 types of softshells

woven softshells are ones made of tightly woven and treated DWR fabric ... they are usually cheaper and breath much better ... the downside is that they are usually less "warm" and less weather resistance ... on the other hand due to the single layer contruction they tend to dry much faster as well ...

membrane softshells are laminated with another layer ... they tend to be more expensive and breathe less well ... some people feel they are "warmer" and they tend to have better weather resistance, they also tend to take longer to dry ... examples include polartec powershield and gore windstopper

most of the softshell pants you see on sale these days are woven, especially the cheaper ones ... note that they always exactly cheaper as dead bird gamma lt/ar can run you $150+ ... while those MH or NF ones you buy on special at an outlet store which actually work just as well can costs less than $50 ...

i only use woven softshell pants myself for price and breathability reasons ... even then there are different weights which will affect both the warmth and the durability ...

i supposed i may use a membrane softshell if i was doing something like skiing where id wipe out constantly ... or in very low temps here i wanted more "warmth" ... but even then you could simply wear some heavier long johns under yr woven softshells

my recommendations is that

1. you decide if you want pure winter softshells, or something you can use in fall and summer alpine as well ...

2. if you decide the former pick up some heavier woven or membrane softshells ... if the latter pick up some lighter ones and use long johns with em in winter

3. once youve decided the type (after testing both of course) ... bring you gear and try it on in the store ... softshell pants that feel great in yr sneakers may feel differently with yr winter boots and glacier harness on ...

4. then pick the one that fits best at the price you want.... hopefully you wont be a short lazy azz like me ... and be forced to buy dead bird gamma ARs because no one else makes a short version that fits properly ... i wish i fit the "standard" model size sometimes =(

either way if yr doing anything remotely abrasive softshell pants are the way to go ... and just patch up the holes youll put in em eventually ... youll destroy em eventually if you have a roaring good time ;)

that is great info! thanks...

any SPECIFIC pants you would recommend?

gamma lt ... but only because they fit me and are light enough for summer, and you can use em in winter with long johns

pataguci rock guides and OR woven softshells are basically the same type for cheaper price ...

if yr going to always be using crampons and ice axes ... then something more durable like the gamma AR or cheaper equivalents would probably be a better idea as they resist pointy things better ... and some may be more easily fit over a winter boot

IMO, dont worry about the specific pants, dont get set on it ... just go and try it on

its really fit that ultimately matters ... you wont want to be going up a mountain with something that rubs yr parts the wrong way every step you take ;)

Edited by bearbreeder on 09/06/2011 11:02:36 MDT.

Montana winters- I think we safely one up Washington on winters :) of course there is a base layer underneath during winter, w/ the addition of mid-length gaiters- snowshoeing is strenuous enough even in below 0 temps that it's rare to feel cold on the legs (at camp the down pants get broken out however :))