Hi Everyone -
A couple weeks ago I moved from the Cleveland, OH area up to the Seattle area. Before I do any overnights here, I'd like to replace my old double-wall shelter with something lighter. Considering the new climate and environment here, I'm not entirely positive what's going to be best. Here's the options I'm considering:

Tarp & Groundcloths: Are bathtub-wall groundcloths necessary in the PacNW? I know it rains a lot but... Also, I need bugnetting - the fam and I climbed Mt Zion last weekend, and it's clear that bug netting is needed :) but I can't do the headnet thing, I'd almost rather have the bugs. Anyone have a fave setup for the PacNW?

Tarptent: If bathtub flooring is a must, it might be simplest to go the Tarptent route. But are the lack of setup options an issue? In my limited hiking in the area, I haven't seen many flat tent spots, so not sure how easy a tent is out here.

Hammock: This would seem to be the easiest in terms of setup and rain protection, but I've read that Hammocks increase your risk of bear attack. Given that anywhere I go around here I'm going to be in thick bear country, is this a risk? I wouldn't normally worry about bears back in the Appalachia mtns, because I "know" those bears. Not sure if there's some related local knowledge that should dissuade me from a hammock here. Also, since my constant companions are my 9 year old son and my wife, I'm a little more reserved about bears than I would be if it were just me.

Thanks!

If you can make it down to Cascade Locks on the Columbia Gorge Labor Day week-end, they are having the Pacific Crest Trail Days---oodles of ultralight manufacturers coming to show off their wares. A good opportunity to compare ultralight shelters! It's running Fri-Sun, and from Seattle, it's probably about a 4-5 hour drive, depending.

Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately I have a conflict - going to be getting together with family in Portland, and won't have time to get away to Cascade Locks. Real bummer cause that show could be exactly what I need.

I like the TarpTents. We have two- the Hogback 4 person for when it is my husband, 13 year old son (Officially taller than me now) and me with the dog. We hike mostly where it's pretty dry, although we got rained on for a while on the last Sierra trip.
We have a Rainshadow 2 for backpacking without the dog.
Both are great tents with full bug protection, we've had no issues with condensation. Both are made very well, and Henry's customer service can't be beat.

'cause it should be interesting. Haven't been myself, hoping to be able to go but may have some conflicts too.

Bugs---generally, I don't use any specific bug gear, just 100% DEET. We are not nearly as badly buggy as a lot of the country, although this year may be a winner due to the late melt-off. I have carried a light head net with me, but never used it. I do insist on having a shelter that has bug netting, however.

I'm not the best one to talk to about ultralight shelters---I'm still using a double-wall REI Quarterdome T2 tent. Will say that I've had it out in very rainy weather, haven't had any complaints, but I"m hiking with a partner, so we split the weight. Don't use a hammock either, so I'm no help there.

I know a few people who hike the area with just a tarp and groundcloth.
Some use bugnets or bivy with bugnet.

Many have said when the subject of bathtub floors in the Pacific Northwest came up. They are great for collecting water.

Poor site selection with a bathtub floor means waking in a bathtub full of water. I've seen and heard it many times before.

Thanks for the feedback! You guys rock. And that makes sense with the bathtub groundcloth - never considered the downside of it

It's not the bathtub floor that's the problem, it's where they're putting the floor - on a site that collects water! Some slope is preferable to "flat" if it's going to rain or is raining. Hammocks will work, even better than tents in some respects, if you can actually sleep in the dang things! I gave up on them after 6 sleepless nights! Try it before you buy it!


FWIW, though I live in southern California now, I spent a number of years in Oregon, spent a lot of that time backpacking with an old REI A-frame tent, and was always able to find someplace to pitch it. I can't remember any time when we had problems with water getting into the tent, and since we used down bags, I assure you we would have noticed!

Along with the TarpTents, I'd encourage you to look at Mountain Laurel Designs tents and tarps, especially the larger Mids and Trailstar. Ron can put a bug perimeter on any of them, or you can use a bug bivy or inner tent. I think the mountains back least gets as much or more rain in the summer as the northwest, and they do very well indeed!

Thanks Stephen! Good point about placement. I did grab some hammocks from Grand Trunk (cheapo ones that aren't a big loss if it's not for me). My only concern with them is that I've heard they entice bears to play with them out of curiosity. Being a bear's tether ball is not a fun end to a trip :)

I think more than anything I probably just need to get out there and see what overnights are like here. I think I'll get my first opportunity next weekend.

Welcome to Seattle!

The bear and hammock thing is myth-- no more than bears chewing on tents or packs. I do hang my food.

The real issue is that hammocks are about as heavy as a double wall tent. I estimate a 20oz hit when using a hammock system. They still need a tarp and extra insulation on the bottom side. They do allow camping anywhere you can find two anchor points 12'-15' apart. Even with the weight, I'm loving hammocks-- no more rocks or mud and I can camp just about anywhere and sleep well.

For ground camping, I use a Gatewood Cape and a polycro ground sheet. Site selection is important and established sites with compressed tent sites are more an issue for ground water. I roll the edges of my ground sheet underneath, which raises the edge just a bit so the water runs under rather than over. Bathtub floors work fine, provided the edges don't droop or the tarp doesn't funnel water into them. Condensation is a fact of life with the moisture saturated air.

As you will find out, thundershowers are rarer in the PNW. The rain is typically a drizzle that can go on for days. PNW weather is a study in micro-climates. Cold and humid is the 3 season battle, so breathable, well ventilated gear is the trick. And you can't depend on the sun coming out to dry your gear. Bugs can be a pain around lake sites for a couple months in Summer and I recommend having some sort of bug control options.

Spring trails have a lot of snowmelt and mud--- mud management in your shelter is important. I use a piece of Tyvek to wrap my tent stakes and that is my "doormat". A sit pad is nice to keep your bottom dry as well as padding. It extends my short sleeping pad too. Short gaiters are nice to keep your pant cuffs out of the mud.

BTW, I had a Grand Trunk Ultralight rip in half and drop me on my patio last week. Get a Warbonnet Traveler for a light but high quality hammock (http://warbonnetoutdoors.com/travelers.php) Papa Smurf makes a 2.8oz tulle bug net that is an excellent match (http://www.mydiygear.com/pages/projects/bug-protection/bugsock.php). Tarps are typically in the 10'x12' range. Zpacks makes a great Cuben model that is on my wish list. I have a Hennessy Expedition system and they make some good packages, but few are what I would classify as lightweight. If you are under 200 pounds, you will have a lot more lightweight options for hammocks.

As to bottom insulation, typical 20" wide ground pads don't work well in hammocks and you must have some sort of insulation. Many use underquilts with the additional weight, bulk and expense. 24" wide pads will work, but aren't as comfortable.

See my post on my newbie look at hammock camping at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=50874. Hammockforums.net is the place to get excellent info on hammocks.

A big +1 to Dale's comments.

The shoulders seasons last a while up here, and moisture accumulation is the big issue. Like Dale said it can rain for days on end, often a steady drizzle, rather than the afternoon thunderstorm that gives way to blue skies. That's why ventilation is so important, especially with single wall shelters.

Dale's comments regarding micro climates is spot on - as much as I enjoy hiking the west side of the Cascades in recent years I've been hiking increasingly on its eastern flanks to get drier and enjoy some more sunshine.

WHich leads us to the whole silnylon discussion. Because of the sag factor of silnylon when mositure and condensation builds up, you have to re-tighten the shelter. There are ways to mitigate this problem but in wet conditions, it can create some issues in a single-wall tent setup if you are in tight quarters. For this reason I have begun to use cuben fiber tarp.

And while the setup is a bit finicky, I find when combined with a net bivy to give me a nice shelter with a lot of ventilation. All this said, I still use my Six Moon Designar Lunar E tent, which I enjoy very much as it has a side-entry. And still take out my Tarptent Squall once in a while.

If snow or constant rain is predicted and I go out anyways, I will take my MSR Hubba, which sheds snow well enough.

Dirk

Thanks a bunch guys - the more I look at this, the more I see I need to do some gear shopping to retool for the wetter climate. Not necessarily a bad thing :)

Kieran,

Dale's comments are good about the kinds of weather you are likely to see in the PNW. My opinion is that a single-wall shelter is fine but should be sized big even for one person, taking a slight weight-penalty for the extra room. This enables you to keep gear dry, pack up under the tarp and then take down the tarp as the last thing to do before moving on. You can pair this with a breathable bivy (Katabatic, TiGoat, MLD, etc) and/or a net tent for a modular system. Examples would be the MLD Trailstar, Gossamer Gear SpinnTwinn or a 8x10 sil tarp.

On Sil vs. cuben: my UL shelters are currently a MLD Trailstar and a BearPaw Cub Den 1.5 in cuben. The Cub Den is fairly new and I haven't been able to really test it out, except a dry clear overnighter in Olympic.

That said, I do keep circling back to a single-wall solo tarptent design, like a TT Moment, LightHeart Solo, or SMD Skyscape or Lunar E.