I'm thinking of getting a Cuben fabric solo tent.

I have a TT Moment and I would like to know if Cuben "fabric" is as durable as silnylon. I know Cuben is usually stronger and more UV resistant than silnylon but is it generally as durable for all around use? (I do take good care of my equipment.)

Depends on design and construction. In general, the fewer seams the better.

Cuben comes in different thicknesses...so the answer is..it depends.

Lets say an SMD Skyscape X (Cuben) & a Skyscape Trekker (silnylon) just to make things more equal. Would one be much less durable than the other in terms of fabric.

I don't know for certain right now, but I'm fixin' to find out here shortly.
I'm going for a cuben shelter, and I have high expectations.

From everything that I have been able to find out, cuben is better at everything except abrasion.
That means I don't want my bathtub floor made out of it, or my groundsheet, unless I don't mind having to replace those items more often.
I think for canopy use like tarps or tent flys, that cuben is probably the best material available.
So my next move is being made on my estimation that cuben fiber used in its proper roles is my best bet.

cuben is plenty durable in .7 wt and up.

The question of whether or not a given mfg produces a durable product with it in a given product is a different question.

I have been less than satisfied with seam sealing of cuben, silicone does not stick to it well, it rubs off fairly easily. Havent tried other possible sealers yet though. I would not purchase a tent in cuben with long sewn seams with the intent of sealing with silicone. I wont even purchase another dry bag that is sewn and not taped, it is just a joke and not worth the effort. Especially when a mfg sews a side seam which is always subject to flexing since it is the fold line (poor design) . All mfgs can easily tape all cuben seams after sewing, just like a conventional tent ,... if they cared. There is no reason not to with cuben. This is what MLD does to the sewn bottom seam on their drybags, makes it 100% waterproof.

Any punctures or such in cuben can be easily and permanently repaired with 3M mylar tape, or double side tape and cuben repair patch, etc. Try that with any other tent material. The benefits of no stretch, easy to repair, lightweight, outweigh the drawbacks in my book.

Here's a You Tube video of a Cuben comparison test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gfcuCh7h04

Edited by Cephalotus on 08/30/2011 19:10:20 MDT.

Eric,
Maybe you've noted some of the lengthy threads in the last year or so about this issue, not to mention the other big issue, water resistance, especially after considerable use in the field.

Thanks to Richard, the water issue was addressed to a large extent. Some may not like the results, but they are a lot more definitive than I ever thought we'd get. The type of cuben appears to be a key factor.

The durability issue is tougher, and I haven't been able to reach any firm conclusions. There seem to be nagging questions about what happens at the needle holes if there is stitching, and about stitching causing the non-elastic material to pucker. While a fly or a tarp can be bonded and taped, what about a hybrid tent, where cuben material and netting all come together at one 'seam' location? Since hybrid designs are my passion, this has been a thorny issue that I'm still giving much thought. I'm so conditioned to thinking in terms of conventional sewn fabric construction, that it's taking a lot of time. One approach has been to think of cuben as if it were metal foil, and try to envisage how pieces of it could be joined into an arced tent structure that is taut.

You can't get around the fact that in a tent, it's the fabric that is most key to the total weight, especially if the poles are carbon or dual duty trekking ones; and since cuben weighs about half as much as silnylon, there is a strong incentive to make it work to achieve a much lighter tent.

There are several manufacturers making cuben tents (Terra Nova and Lightheart Gear, to name just two), and it would be nice if BPL would test them as a group, with info about durability, and construction.

In the meantime, those who can afford it may just have to make or purchase cuben tents, and we will eventually find out how durable they are. I'm planning to make one this winter, but won't have any good idea of how durable it is until late next year, after some hard use; so it's going to take some time. And not too many are inclined to be very critical of something they put a lot of time and/or money into, and that is a factor also.

Once I settle on an approach to joining the shell, floor and netting materials together into a tent, I'm going to just bite the bullet and build an all Cuben one, and find out if I can do it without puckering and/or separation at needle holes. If it doesn't work, I'll be poorer and still carrying a heavier tent. If it does, it will be much lighter than the silnylon designs I've been working on, and therefore worth the $ and effort. Go for it!

Edited by scfhome on 08/30/2011 20:59:07 MDT.

Joe from ZPacks used a prototype/one-off of the Hexamid (with the netting floor, not a cuben floor) on his thru-hike of the CDT. My understanding is that the shelter lasted through that hike and was still usable. It seems like that trip was one of the first to really put cuben to the test.

He also lists on his site that his cuben packs should (really depends on how hard a person is on gear) last through a thru-hike attempt (PCT, CDT, AT) and maybe along. Now a pack will probably not last as long as a floorless shelter (assuming no falling or wind-thrown branches or hiking poles punctures) but at least it's another decent test of early cuben material.

I took a cuben tarp on the AT last year and it kept me dry. It was never really tested until a week ago in the Uintas. A four hour hailstorm did no damage. Interestingly, we had a sil tarp as well. It stretched badly due to the hammering force and moisture. The Cuben tarp did not stretch and stayed totally dry on the underside. It did start to collapse, but that was human error, setting up too close to the ground with four inches of hail piled on the sides. It was a mid day shelter, we set up better at night. I am now, even after carrying it for four months, finally convinced of cuben's durability and strength. I like the non stretchiness too!

Oh, by the way... Quest outfitters .48 oz cuben fiber with an unsewn, just taped seam.
-Gabe

Thanks for the insight and for the very helpful video link. Before this thead the only things I knew about Cuben was that it is light and 'spensive.

I'm looking at the well designed Six Moon Skyscape X at just over 16 oz. That's more than 13 oz. lighter than my TT Moment! And since I always use hiking poles the Skyscape is a natural, as was my former TT Contrail.

I think Ron Moak likely has good, strong weight of Cuben fabric for it. It has Double taped seams and a Cuben floor so it looks fairly durable and watertight.

"While a fly or a tarp can be bonded and taped, what about a hybrid tent, where cuben material and netting all come together at one 'seam' location?"

If you cannot glue the netting directly, how about sewing a thin strip of cuben to the edge of the netting? Then that strip could be glued without compromizing the strength of the fly. There is not that much stess in the netting so the thin cuben strip should go ok even with the sewing holes.

On the downside, this means adding one more step to the process of making the tent and it might also add some weight to the product.

Edited by anttipeltola on 08/31/2011 01:17:32 MDT.

Zpacks earlier this month released a new backpack (Exo backpack) using a Cuben/Nylon hybrid fabric. I'm curious how that hybrid fabric compares to Dyneema.

Antti,
Sewing a thin strip of something to the netting, as you suggest, may turn out to be the only solution. For a tent, there are also the zippers, and some other materials that don't bond well.

I may try bonding a hem on the edges of the cuben pieces to be be sewn, but test first to see if that is sufficient to hold stitches securely without puckering. The type of bonding agent may effect this. Imagining metal foil as the ultimate inelastic surface material, suggests that the hems would have to be done carefully, without bubbles or wrinkles, to insure they don't project wrinkles onto the canopy surface. For hemming an arced edge, lots of small triangle-shaped slits along the edge would be necessary to accomplish this. Or maybe a strip of a more elastic material, like nylon, could be bonded to the arced cuben edge.

And as with low denier nylon, but even moreso with a non-elastic material, the stitching has to be with low thread tension to avoid puckering. Some experience last spring making a silnylon fly, showed that bonding reinforcement patches with GE silicone glue created a laminated edge that could be sewn at higher thread tension without puckering. This might also work with cuben laminated with urethane glue, or possibly even sailmaker's peel off tape, with all the edges to be sewn, not just the stress points, being reinforced. These hems would only be around 1/3 inch, not adding much weight, I hope.

The problem is with the netting or zipper tapes, that if inserted into the cuben-to-cuben seam, will prevent bonding the whole seam, not just the hems on the cuben edges - not so good when only the thread is holding the seam together and the tension is low. So those other materials would have to be sewn to the inside of the bonded cuben seam, rather than inserted into it as I would do with a nylon or polyester tent. Or maybe what you suggest will be the only answer. A number of experiments with scraps or small pieces will be necessary.

Sorry to take this into MYOG land, but I wanted to answer your post. If I come up with an approach that works well, will post it on MYOG, not here. It also may be helpful to those shopping manufactured cuben tents to be thinking of the issues involved with joinery. These issues have been discussed on the MYOG forum, and you can find them if you go digging. Look for the discussions of "peel" and "shear" strength.

Edited by scfhome on 08/31/2011 21:10:09 MDT.