Hi,

I have a quite old (circa 2002) Tarptent Squall for 2, that I love. There are two problems. (1) It's drafty. We camp high in the Sierra, and the winds can make our nighttime significantly colder than they have to be. We are cold sleepers. (2) Nearly every morning, our sleeping bags are wet from contact with the single-wall tent. We can't sit up and change clothes without getting our clothes wet from wall contact as well.

I sort of ignored these problems, but now I have a mutiny on my hands. Of my several backpacking buddies, most protest or outright refuse to go out with this tent anymore. They are threatening to take the 7-pound car-camping tent.

Is there a newer-model, 2-person Tarptent that (a) is not [very] drafty, and (b) does not have the problem of your sleeping bag/clothes constantly getting wet from the wall. If you have *any* of the 2-person Tarptent models, please comment on (a) and (b).

I'd prefer to stick to Tarptent, because I love the customer service, the great prices and of course the light weight. But I'm open to other manufacturers as well. Most are so pricy; my max would have to be ~$350. I am open to the ones that require one or two trekking poles for setup.

I tried the REI Quarter Dome T2, which is a marvel of engineering (and hiking-partner happiness) and is only $200, but that thing is bulky. (And it weighs a full 4 pounds on my scale, without stuffsack etc.)

- Elizabeth

I posted this in the wrong thread; can someone move it to the main Gear thread?

Tarptent is supposedly coming out with a new tent. Around October? Its a two person, double wall. It was posted in the gear forum a week or two ago. Looks pretty sweet to me.

Mine gets wet inside but mostly only when it rains and I close the beak all the way down. Mine has done much better when its clear and I can leave the beak rolled up. I don't notice the draft, but I usually tarp, so I might not be a good judge. You'd think the draft would keep condensation down.

We have the older floorless Cloudburst, and +1 for the draftiness, though not so much for the condensation. I've started putting stuff around me that blocks the air flow, my bf does not mind the draft.

I corresponded with someone on this site who had a Double Rainbow, and she said it was pretty much the same thing with draftiness. She also said the SMD Lunar Duo is less drafty. The SMD Refuge I tried was less drafty (vestibule covers come further to the ground) but the tent itself was not as windworthy as the Tarptents. So I suppose anything with solid walls that come closer to the ground would help you.

I too like the Tarptents for their construction, and sometimes wish they provided more wind protection inside, but I suppose anything with more wind protection would be even more prone to condensation.

I'm guessing that condensation buildup would cause less of a problem in the Tarptent models that have both a high ceilings and steep walls...both of which would prevent us from touching the walls when we move around.

So, any comment on that point is useful too.

- Elizabeth

For other manufacturers, you could consider the Big Agnes Flycreek UL2 it's at the exact upper limit of your budget and is a 2lb 2oz + stakes shelter according to REI's stats. Not a bad setup for two. An acquaintance has the UL1 and likes it very much. I would rather support the cottage gear guys as well but there are at least a few mainstream products that could fit your requirements.

EDIT: If you're an REI member I suggest buying this during one of their 20% Member Sales.

Edited by cobberman on 08/19/2011 13:40:31 MDT.

I have the 2010 Double Rainbow. It can get kinda drafty, when we were in the Grand Canyon beach camping the winds blew in quite a bit of sand. Though in general it's not too bad. It is noticeable warmer whenever I've zippered up the fly.

I always try to sleep with the fly half open, but sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and close it because of the chill.

Since the side walls are mesh, it was easy to avoid touching the silnylon parts (which makes up a pretty small area, easy to wipe down). No really bad condensation that I can remember.

It's a really functional tent. I like the dual exits/vestibules, small footprint, ability to be freestanding, and general versatility.

I'd say though, provided you're on the smaller to average size, this would be he tarptent to have. It's roomy enough.

As suggested, I'd also take a look at the Big Agnes Flycreek 2 as well, see how it fits.

From what I've read, most people recommend upgrading to the UL3 of the Flycreek since the UL2 is a very tight fit for two.

I have a TT Scarp 2 with both mesh and mostly solid inners. The solid inner blocks breezes very well. It has mesh vents only along the upper sides. I've never used it above the treeline, but I haved used it on a mildly breezy night on a forested ridge before leaf-out. Around 55 F is the warmest I'd probably want to use the solid inner, but strong winds might change that perspective. The Scarp 2 outer fly blocks winds pretty well anyway, as it goes to within a few inches of the ground.

With either inner, you can push it to the outer fly and wet it out, but you have to be trying.

I think the Scarp 2 with solid inner is a little over 3.75 lbs. After seam sealing, extra stakes/guylines, and extra silicone coating on the floor and the fly, mine is a little over 4 lbs.

Edited by AndyF on 08/19/2011 14:59:02 MDT.

are you interested in selling the tent?

I have a Squall that I use for Summer, low level father and son trips. Condensation has not been too bad. However, drafts have always seemed to me the Tarptent's Achilles heel. One (expensive) option is a very light bivy http://www.suluk46.com/products%20%20-%20P7%20CR%20Bivy.html. There are, however, some very light double skinned tents available now that would probably be a much better way to go.

I own a Cloudburst and agree that they can be drafty (cold). I believe that most of the tents mentioned above were designed to be drafty on purpose, with the philosophy that circulation reduces condensation. Love em, or leave em.

One reason why I sold my Double Rainbow, too drafty. I am happy with my Duomid.

We do not have a 2 person Tarptent, but do have the 3 person Rainshadow and 4 person Hogback. Both have net interiors.
We have had zero problem with condensation in the High Sierra (10K-12K feet), and if it is windy, I just pitch it with the sides lower to the ground and put stuff at the edges on the inside. Does not address the 2 person question, except that at 2.5 pounds seam sealed with titanium stakes we have planned on using the Rainshadow even when it is just two of us.
We also have the BA Flycreek 3 and have had condensation issues with that one in the San Gabriels.

I don't have any experience with the Squall as of yet, however I do have a Double Rainbow on hand, as well as Lunar Duo by Six Moon Designs and a LightHeart Duo. I just recently posted a comparison of these three on my blog, but I'll share some additional thoughts...

The Lunar Duo and Double Rainbow have similar ventilation/draftyness in my opinion. I don't mind it. I'm not a cold sleeper but I do like to be comfortable. Having spent some nights sleeping under tarps and tarp-like shelters, I find either of those choices much more comfy. The LightHeart Duo seems to be less drafty than either of those two, possibly because it has less mesh and lacks the top vents. I've only been in it a few nights so far, so that observation may change with more experience.


I think Randall hits the nail on the head though... less drafty likely means more condensation. It's a double edged sword. A larger tent (Lunar Duo) can somewhat make that a moot point, or add a mesh insert (optional with Double Rainbow) for extra protection, or take a shot with a less drafty tent (Lightheart Duo).

I have two squals. one with a floor and one without. I also think Randall is right. My wife and I both sleep cold. The solution was wool underwear, down quilts and layering our ultra light clothing.
Picking the right place to set up the tent can make a big differance also.
Call Henry and put the question to him, maybe he can put a turbo mod on your tent.
I think you will end up with more condinsation with less draft. I use a BPL bivy bag inside my tent with an 18oz BPL quilt.
I spent one night in a Black Diamond Pyramid tent with two other people. It had standing headroom near the poll and I can’t remember any condensation problems. I don’t think there was any bug netting around the bottom. This was more then 10 years ago so I am sure someone has a better design by now. You might do a search on pyramid tents.

John

Edited by johnyinlv on 08/20/2011 17:39:39 MDT.

I own a Tarptent Squall that I've had down to about 20 degrees and was still warm. The inside walls do get a little wet with condensation but its so roomy that I don't have trouble staying dry.

and therefore improves the condensation-getting-on-everything problem when moving around inside it. I like drafty single wall shelters as drafts reduce condensation. A warmer sleep system compensates. I always sleep with a packtowel handy and wipe the inside walls down if/when necessary. I have found that in certain conditions (humid, cool, lots of dew, windless) you get lots of condensation, and in other conditions (breezy, under trees, balmy) you get almost none.

This thread is still in wrong place - mods?

I've had little or no condensation with my Squall 2, even in extended rain and fog on the Oregon or Washington coast. As mentioned above, the "2" model has a wider top so more headroom, and therefore more ventilation. I have more condensation with my GG Squall Classic (based on the original Tarptent Squall) which has a lower ceiling. (I use the Squall Classic for longer trips and the larger, heavier Squall 2 for overnights or for going out with dog and grandchild.)

If you want a single-wall tent, you'll need to choose between airiness (or draftiness, if you prefer) and condensation. I personally get claustrophobic in a double-wall tent and love the openness of both my Squalls. I'd also much rather have the condensation where I can easily wipe it off instead of between the tent inner and tent fly where I can't reach it! But that's me--YMMV!

Depending, of course, on the hiking partner, you may want to suggest they bring their own shelter if they can't stand yours (let them carry the bomber car camping tent). Of course if the partner is your SO, that's definitely not a good idea!

I also would suggest taking a look at Henry Shires' new StratoSpire 2 or his Scarp 2. Both are double-wall tents, but the Scarp 2 is 4 season while the lighter StratoSpire is 2.5-3 season. If you get one, be sure to test it out with two of you inside while there is still opportunity to send it back. You might even want to order both and send back the one you don't want to keep.

Another possibility is Tarptent's Rainshadow, a 3-person version of the Squall 2. It will be a lot roomier for 2, so far less chance of rubbing the sides, and less condensation. With one adult and two kids, it has come through foggy, drizzly coastal nights without condensation. You'll still have the draft problem, though.

Edited by hikinggranny on 11/15/2011 15:30:58 MST.