Hi,

I know the NeoAir is on everyone's list and for good reason. I am new to backpacking light (the site and the practice) and I am all for buying nice gear but $140 seems like an awful lot to spend on a pad. Anyway, I made a list on GearGrams to better visualize things. I found in the April 2011 Buyer's Guide for Backpacker Magazine that they recommended the Pacific Outdoors Peak Elite AC which is also 14 oz (same as the NeoAir) but priced at $50. What's the difference? Comfort (subjective)? R-Value (not 100% sure I totally grasp this)? Similarly, the Big Anes Air Core is 6 oz more (20oz) and also costs $50.

Does anyone have experience with these pads? Thanks.

David, I'm not sure that it is on everybody's list. I haven't used an air mattress in thirty years or so.

My backpacks each have a slot for a foam pad to be inserted, and the foam pad protects my back. Then I place another smaller foam pad at the very bottom of the pack bag, and that fixes up the bottom. Then I place another even smaller foam into the rear pocket. Additionally, I am carrying a micro-towel. Collectively, these soft items make up my sleeping pad for a total weight of about 6 ounces, and with no chance for air leaks and expensive price tags.

OTOH, some people are not comfortable without a thick pad to sleep on. Maybe test at home to determine what comfort you need. On a backpack trip, I am typically so tired by the time that I get ready to sleep that I could sleep on a pile of bricks.

--B.G.--

i have the peak elite. i like it a lot. can't explain the price difference. the elite is light warm and comfortable. I'd call it a bargain.

Sounds good enough for me.

Yeah dude, good call.

I had a BAIAC and wanted to save some weight (lots actually) and was in the same boat as you but decided to get a custom mat. If I had to do it again I'd go with the POE. Nothing else in that price range.

Just keep the bill should you have issues because it is a first generation pad. The neoair makes this weird crinkly sound too.

I've slept over a dozen nights in my POE with all nights at ~10k feet. The pad was comfortable and seemed warm enough, unfortunately the same could not be said for the quilt I brought on that trip. My pad all by itself weighs in at 10 3/4 ounces.

I can relate to you about the NeoAir and it's price tag keeping it out of reach. I also camp year round, so I needed a few solutions for pads.

What I ended up doing was first going with your standard foam pad (cost about 7-8 bucks, 350g) combined with a space blanket ground cover (3 bucks, 50g). This works pretty well for me around late spring-early fall (and when it is really warm in the summer, no pad at all, but this is rare).

But I needed something with serious insulation for the winter, so I opted for a Big Agnes IAC, and I can say it is quite warm, easy to use and pack, and the weight is not so bad (mine is a mummy and clocks in slightly over 600g). With more insulation comes more weight, though I have read a lot of good things about the NeoAir, which somehow might be as warm as other heavier pads...

But then there is another issue of comfort, which is subjective and different for us all. I noticed that I sleep better on foam pads and self-inflating pads than inflatable ones. My body just likes firm I guess. So I recently ordered a Pacific Outdoor Peak Oyl Lite (regular) that is 540g (got it with a discount for 68 bucks). This is what I will use in spring and fall, and perhaps in winter I will combine this with either a foam pad, we'll see how it goes. If I am just as warm or warmer with the Peak Oyl Lite (with or without used together with foam pad), then I may sell the BA pad. But if the warmth is not as good as my BA pad, then I will keep it for winter use (I have used it in -10C before and slept fine and was warm).

What I would love to know from someone who has tried both is: in the middle of winter, which one is warmer/more comfy, a NeoAir or a Big Agnes IAC?

I think a lot of people choose the NeoAir (myself included) because it is made stateside and they have a fantastic warranty/customer service.

I don't think everyone worships at the house of the Neo Air. But a shocking number of people don't consider anything that Thermarest doesn't make, and get stocked at REI, so who knows. I've been using a POE Max Thermo and it's successor, the Ether Elite 6 for about 6 years, with zero problems. Very, very happy with the product.

Z-Rests are made in Seattle, cost $30, and weigh 10 oz...if you don't mind the slight discomfort (I actually prefer it to an air pad).

You can get one of these for half the price on Steep and Cheap

http://www.backcountry.com/stoic-ltwt-step-sleeping-pad-regular

The NeoAir is very popular, despite not being the best at any one category. It isn't the lightest, warmest, or strongest pad for its weight, but it hits a nice sweet spot in terms of comfort, weight and warmth. Of course, comfort is a personal thing. My wife still prefers a "classic" thermarest, while others are fine with closed cell foam (which saves them weight). If camping in a really warm area, then I assume you can get a lighter inflatable. When winter camping, then a down pad or closed cell foam makes more sense (although the new NeoAir will be worth considering when they come out). Of course, a combination of pads makes sense for winter as well.

I honestly wasn't a fan of the original neo-air.. the noise (crinkle) actually kept me up at night as I am a serial turner in my sleep. I like using the prolite 3/4th and my backpad foam z-lite for my legs. This works til about 40F comfortably.

Thanks for the tip. Anyone want to chime in with some persona experiences for the Stoic? I am glad to find some affordable and lightweight alternatives. Thanks for all the feedback and discussion.

I have both the Stoic LTWT "step" full length pad and the torso size as well. I've used the full-length car camping but haven't used the torso size yet.

They have very thin feeling fabric, but haven't had a problem yet. They're a little slippery, but haven't felt the need to add dots or anything. The full length is pretty comparable to the ProLite3 I'd say, but with quite the monetary savings (plus stuff sack, velcro fasteners, and a patch kit are included).

Quite the buy for self-inflating pads IMO, especially if you snag them on Steepandcheap. Read the reviews on backcountry for them, as they seem pretty spot on. Heavier and not as thick as a NeoAir, but definitely a competitor if you've decided on a self-inflating foam pad.

When you say self-inflating, I assume you mean a pad you inflate yourself, not that the pad automatically inflates (built in pump), right?

how fast BPLers have forgotten about the POE warranty issue thread ;)

The pads self-inflate because the open cell foam inside of them expand, drawing air in through the valve (once it's opened). Think squished dish sponge springing back to shape.

Self-inflating pads usually require a breath or two to top them off, but not as much as a non-self-inflating pad (NeoAir and other air pads).

The Neo-Air in some ways is overpriced however it is made in the USA, has a real lifetime warranty, and had a lot of new technology or a least implemented a lot of existing technology in new ways in a sleeping pad. The Neo Air has revolutionized the way we look at insulating air mats, and apparently they are coming up with some pretty neat new things too, the upcoming X-therm, if the claims are true, is a marvel of engineering.

If you are comfortable enough on CC Foam pads, like the Ridgerest or Z-lite, then you can get a warm, lite, pad for under $50. They also make great frames in frameless packs, but can be bulky to carry if you don't need to use them as a frame. They are also indestructible so there is no chance of a failure in the field.

Air mats like the Peak Elite AC are good alternatives to the NeoAir in comfort, and probably somewhat reasonably close warmth wise. The BA IAC is not nearly as warm as they would like you to believe, despite the claim of R-4.1, it is probably on par with the Neo-Air though.

Anther choice is a self inflating mats, like the Prolite series from Thermarest.

The higher the R - Value the warmer the mat. In my experience Foam mats seem warmer than their R value and air filled mats seem colder with the exception of Down Air Mats, which are super warm, but expensive and heavier.

Ha. This is one of the reasons I chose a NeoAir (from REI). I am not worried about returns or customer service.