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reading and writing on UL trips
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b d
(bdavis) - F

Locale: Mt. Lassen - Shasta, N. Cal.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DE for Dr.J (inspired by D. Bonn) on 12/11/2006 00:49:04 MST Print View

I updated my previous communication, just saw yours. Agree, for now anyway, thus I can actually go to bed. Thank you for the dialogue and thought, most persevering and percipient.

Edited by bdavis on 12/11/2006 00:49:40 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DE for Dr.J (inspired by D. Bonn) on 12/11/2006 02:49:13 MST Print View

I do hope no-one takes any of this seriously!

OK guys, now try to find the analytic solution to an elliptic integral.

Edited by rcaffin on 12/11/2006 02:49:36 MST.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DE for Dr.J (inspired by D. Bonn) on 12/11/2006 02:49:56 MST Print View

Roman, see what you started!!!

BD, your humor was immediately apparent, either that or that lengthy appeal brief you were working on fried your gray matter. I'm still trying to figure out if CP knew from the outset that you were joking around. I think that he knew, but chose to deal with it as if it were serious, but i don't really know for sure.

I'd really like to see more from CP, who to my way of thinking is NOT very crazy at all. Good job, CP.

Oh, and PETE, you don't mind if i call you Pete, do you? (or is it Mr. Pete?), one word of advice, quit while you're ahead. BD, is a lawyer. You simply can't win with a lawyer. Even if you do, they just file another appeal! I really enjoy talking to attorney's, but they're a little like the Hydra that Heracles/Hercules fought. Slay one head and two heads pop out to take its place - that's the way it is with their arguments, slay one and they come back with two more - clever folk that they are.

Edited by pj on 12/11/2006 03:06:47 MST.

Peter McDonough
(crazypete) - F

Locale: Above the Divided Line
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DE for Dr.J (inspired by D. Bonn) on 12/11/2006 09:29:36 MST Print View

Only if its definite Roger....


Peter McDonough
(crazypete) - F

Locale: Above the Divided Line
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DE for Dr.J (inspired by D. Bonn) on 12/11/2006 09:36:18 MST Print View

Oh and one final quick reply---the velocity vs time graph was just an example that may or may not apply to anyone's walking speed.

The variability of the velocity is not a problem. Just think of that graph as one of you and your car, except without stoplights. All that graph is giving us is different velocities at different times. We use integration to stack an infinite number of rectangles under the line to calculate the area under the curve, thus giving us the total distance covered.

b d
(bdavis) - F

Locale: Mt. Lassen - Shasta, N. Cal.
Re: DE for Dr.J (inspired by D. Bonn) on 12/11/2006 12:28:50 MST Print View

pj, et al. -

Quite right that Crazy Pete is not crazy .. that is certain. In fact, I wish he could graph and create algorithims for law office scheduling efficiencies.

Ditto on the lawyers, hopefully trekking around will curtail the appeal upon appeal phenomenon, because of physical exhaustion if not new found common sense. Hope springs eternal.

I'm not even going to touch Rog's suggested new math project, leave that entirely for CP and RD. As Roman said earlier, what a really great group of amazing people hang out in the SUL/UL/L realms. Back to the trenches for me, may all have a great day and lighten their loads.

Roman Dial
(romandial) - F - M

Locale: packrafting NZ
Model vs reality on 12/11/2006 21:53:03 MST Print View

So here is a graph of the model's solution plotted against the Arctic 1000 mileage datagraph

Roman Dial
(romandial) - F - M

Locale: packrafting NZ
Best Fit on 12/11/2006 21:57:31 MST Print View

And here is the best fit best fitwhich gives a slightly different relatiosnhip between walking speed and day as

ds/dt = 19.9 + 0.52 t.

Notice that around day 10 we drop below the "average" and again at day 22.

At day 6 and 7 we hit the really good ridge walking.

And to keep on thread: these data were recorded on 1:250,000 scale USGS paper maps with a pencil stub.

b d
(bdavis) - F

Locale: Mt. Lassen - Shasta, N. Cal.
Re: Model vs reality on 12/11/2006 22:21:26 MST Print View


(Wrote this before the second graph, still looking at it.) Did you have a goal of so many miles a day? The points and curve are very 'symmetrical' or consistent.

At the end what caused the jump in miles per day, or it appears there was an increase over the norm? Did the terrain become easier to negotiate or did you travel longer hours?

IMO this shows the trekkers were in good shape and that the terrain didn't matter, they made their 20 or so miles a day, regardless of the time it took on a daily basis. Is that true or was the hiking time the same, you mentioned something about that? With you guys all being experienced and in good shape it may be that you covered the 20 or so miles regardless of terrain or elevation shifts.

A model of my distances per day would definitely show that I cannot get that far over rough terrain or an elevated hike in one day at a consistent rate. What I see this as showing is that trained, in shape trekkers can create a consistent day to day distance over time, regardless of terrain. A real goal and way to measure my success, also shows a strategy for covering the distance in a given time.

What you and CP are doing is very helpful to me in evaluating my own performance, health, fitness, and concept of what I am doing "out there."

Edited by bdavis on 12/11/2006 22:27:14 MST.

Roman Dial
(romandial) - F - M

Locale: packrafting NZ
Re: Re: Model vs reality on 12/11/2006 22:57:14 MST Print View


BTW you had me laughing out loud with your comments and the exchange with CP. It was as if you two had orchistrated a straight man funny man act. Good fun. I was L-ingOL (or is it LOL_ing?) over your convolutions.

IN the two graphs the dots are what we actually did and the curves are the models.

The only goal we had each day was 12 hours of travelling, although we did go more than 12 and less than 12, of course.

The points climb more steeply at the end because with a lighter pack we could go further, both faster and longer -- that was UL backpacking at its best.

Of course the terrain did matter -- swimmimg rivers and snowy passes slowed us down. So did bear detours and tussocks. But the big picture shows a consistent, but somewhat weak, trend of going farther, faster as the trip progressed, not just becasue we were stronger, smarter, more driven (because we also had less chocolate, more difficult travelling, and more sore feet) at the end, but because we could move more easily -- hence farther each day with the same amount of overall effort.

If you were to go on a long hike and record the distance walked each day and plot the distance from the start, your curve would likely look similar. Your initial distance per day may be less, so your average distances per day would also be less, but the slightly upward curve to the data points would be there for you, too, I reckon.

Anyway, thanks for indulging me!

Some like to tinker with gear, I like to tinker with the relationship between my body and Earth's landscapes and to interpret them in a variety of ways -- analytical as well as emotional.

Edited by romandial on 12/11/2006 23:00:12 MST.

b d
(bdavis) - F

Locale: Mt. Lassen - Shasta, N. Cal.
Re: Re: Re: Model vs reality on 12/11/2006 23:10:26 MST Print View


You're cool. Hope CP didn't take offense at the baristorial convolutions; I actually never took the calculus (although I read some commentaries on it by Leibniz when I was studying philosophy -- after quiting biochem). I spent my time in probability, statistics, sociometrics, and multiple regressions -- did read the theoretical math journals in the library at college once in awhile when I was playing hookey from my job in the library offices on summer breaks. But CP and you reawakened it all, and CP is good at it.

I think the minor shifts on the graph can be major in reality at the upper end -- two miles or ten miles is a big distance when I am approaching the end of a trek, especially if the terrain is going to be bad like walking through volcanic cinder for a mile in order to get to my car.

Most of all the graphs are, IMO, a confirmation of training, fitness, experience, gear quality, lightitude, etc. If I could get a performance graph like that I would kiss the beautiful earth next to my car door at the end ... on my way to get a burger and fries after a longish trek (or long for me).

Edited by bdavis on 12/11/2006 23:44:51 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Model vs reality on 12/12/2006 02:24:38 MST Print View

> on my way to get a burger and fries after a longish trek

Einstein X
(EinsteinX) - F

Locale: The Netherlands
Re: reading and writing on UL trips on 12/13/2006 08:12:53 MST Print View

Coming back to the original question. I use my Swiss army knive to write.


Yes, Swiss Army knive, this one:

It has a pen in it. And:

1. large blade
2. small blade
3. corkscrew
4. can opener with
5. - small screwdriver 3 mm (also for Phillips screws)
6. cap lifter with
7. - screwdriver 6 mm
8. - wire stripper
9. reamer, punch
10. key ring
11. tweezers
12. toothpick
13. scissors
14. multi-purpose hook
15. altimeter
- 100 m – +6000 m
- 300 ft – + 18000 ft

16. thermometer
- 20° C – +60° C
-0° F – +140° F

17. pin, stainless steel
18. mini-screwdriver ( pat.)
19. woodsaw

How's that for multifunction?


Edited by EinsteinX on 12/13/2006 08:13:38 MST.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Re: reading and writing on UL trips on 12/13/2006 09:16:34 MST Print View

Eins, looks like a great little knife.

They make a relatively tiny mini SwissChamp (i forget the precise name, but i think it's MiniChamp) with a pen too, but it doesn't have the all of the gizmos that yours has. I bought one after my accident when it became clear that i was becoming forgetful and couldn't remember things like i used to. Problem is, it's in my pocket, out-of-sight-out-of-mind and i forget to use it!

Mark W Heninger
(heninger) - F

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: reading and writing on UL trips on 12/13/2006 09:49:16 MST Print View

I carry the small moleskine notebook.

I usually bring my Creative Zen Nano Plus MP3 player loaded up with audible books and podcasts. I try to read this way. It is nice too, sometimes to listen while walking that last 5 miles.

Einstein X
(EinsteinX) - F

Locale: The Netherlands
Re: Re: Re: reading and writing on UL trips on 12/13/2006 09:59:18 MST Print View


I have a swiss army knive for 12, 13 ? years now. I couldn't live without it. I almost carry it everywhere. I got this one (it's my 3rd swiss knive) because of the altimeter.


Carol Crooker
(cmcrooker) - MLife

Locale: Desert Southwest, USA
Reading and Writing on 12/15/2006 07:25:26 MST Print View

I carry a mini RITR notebook in my front pants pocket and a Inka pen hanging from my pack strap so I can take gear notes as I go. If I'm going SUL I just bring a space pen cartridge and carry it inside the notebook. I switched to the RITR even though it's heavier than plain mini notebook paper because it's hassle free (no need to worry about keeping it dry) and keeps a permanent record more handily than regular paper. (I used to staple my trip log to my gear and food list when I got home. Now I just file the RITR notebook when it's full.)

When I'm going to do some real writing I stick a sheet of printer paper in the book I'm carrying. I love to read outside, I found it really relaxes me and inspires "revelations" because my brain is "off," not because of what I'm reading. If I bring a book, it's usually a mindless romance. My last trip I departed from romances and read Richard Adams' sequel to Watership Down.

One reason I backpack is to get away and turn my active mind off. Romance novels don't require a lot of thinking and work perfectly to enhance my mini-spa in the wilderness.

Roger B
(rogerb) - MLife

Locale: Here and there
Re: Reading and Writing on 12/15/2006 07:48:16 MST Print View

For me it is the mini RITR notebook and for a pen, it is the small pen in my swiss army knife. The pen is small and reliable whilst carrying a spare is easy, not losing the spare pen is the challenge.

Maps are also great for notes, its keeping track of the notes and maps when you get back home is the challenge.

How do people store notes from trips, electronically and hard copy or ...?

Roman Dial
(romandial) - F - M

Locale: packrafting NZ
Re: Re: Reading and Writing on 12/17/2006 02:42:04 MST Print View


My notes are all on maps. Sometimes I am able to transcribe the notes to TOPO and keep them electronic. But usually they remain on the map....

Joseph Williams
(deadogdancing) - F

Locale: SW England
...brain repair kit... on 05/15/2007 18:10:08 MDT Print View

second all those above who say writing is important- I consider my notebook a survival tool, and am a sanity risk without it. Cheap ones tend to be light ones-small school exercise books, or breast-pocket sized jotters from corner-shops. I write with a biro, for reasons of permanence, ubiquity and cheapness.

I used to write in the long candle lit evenings in my tent, but since going over to the light side I've ditched both candle and tent and spend my evenings in a bivvy sack, which only has space for iffy, paranoid thoughts in it. I hope the evening writing habit will return when I've finished my tarp project and once more have overhead shelter. In the meantime writing tends to get done in cafes, on public transport, and on the more comfortable rest stops during the day.

I write whatever I have to to let me sleep. Hopefully this will be present beauty, meaningful details, or the insights that distance and aloneness can give. Often it is just the nonsense that I can no longer spare head-space for!

Zen and the Art is a wonderful book to read on the trail. I've baulked at the weight for shorter trips, but for a longer hike I'm planning around south west England and Wales next spring, I may ditch my camera in favour of Mr Pirsig's words!