One and two person double walled shelters. They look like they will have excellent floor space and the trekking poles stay out of the shelter where they belong (some recent designs from other manufacturers ignore this feature).

Henry has been busy!

http://tarptent.com/sneakpeek.html

For us die-hard double wall guys these look very good! Interior space is considerably bigger than my Fly Creek with a large vestibule and it weighs the same. I'll be watching these ones with great interest.

Hey David, did you take over for Franco? (announcing new products for Henry)

No - Franco is the de-facto expert on Tarptent.

But he is still sleeping.....

Its time we changed the name to TarpTent StratoShire

I am awake now...
Here is a pic of each shelter:


After fiddling with the concept for four or five years, Henry finally nailed a design for the double that he was happy with a few months ago ant then within a few weeks period came up with the solo version.
If you look at the Bug Net only set up you can see that they are a rather large solo as well as a large double.
Having the pole offset as well as taking advantage of our Pitch Lock corner, results in plenty of headroom sitting up as well as laying down.
A modular system allowing fly or inner only or both together.
Franco

Finally! I've been looking forward to Henry coming up with something new and it is exactly what I'm interested in. BUt they look huge! Wonder how storm worthy they are? Or maybe they're not designed for that? Do you know how tall the shelter is at the apex of the trekking poles?

All of the specs are posted .
The solo is 48" high, the duo 50".
To understand the shelters it is a lot easier if you look at the animated 3D clip (in the video page) as well as the Show Dimensions drawings in the specs page.
The are large shelters but the total footprint (including internal and external guylines) is smaller than many of the other pole supported shelters.
For the ones that do not use trekking poles , dedicated poles will be available soon.


Franco

This looks great, the net tent alone option is great for a warm weather setup - perfect for our climate 75% of the time.

Well done Henry!

KK

My caption says it all.

Question: How will it do in a windstorm?

Edited by Danepacker on 08/02/2011 20:14:07 MDT.

Very nice design, but I still like the freestanding option with my Rainbow.

They look really good to me. Tons of internal space.

Maybe I am looking at the website wrong, but does it post weights for the tarp and net-tent portions separately?

What is the height of the tent on the opposite side (parallel) of the trekking pole?
My concern is that if 2 people used it they would have to sleep opposite directions.

+1 on the question of sleeping head to toe.

The 2 sets of short corner support poles are diagonally opposed to each other (i.e. LF and RR). That would imply that overhead clearance is not equal across the ends of the shelter. To wit, when viewed end-on, clearance decreases from the supported corner (LF) to the adjacent one (RF).

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but that's the impression I get, even though Henry's diagram shows both sleeping bags head to head.

Here is a diagram which I hope helps answer your question. The short answer is you can sleep either end. The interior door will open to the larger triangle side of the support pole. Due to the steepened walls and expanded/diagonal ridgeline there is noticeably more headroom and footroom in this design vs a standard A-frame with equivalent footprint.

Edited by 07100 on 08/03/2011 09:10:58 MDT.

Is it me or does this design border or sheer brilliance?

It sure is a unique and creative design, kind of a Mid with full use of space, looks like it will shed wind and light snow well, good shelter for people with dogs.

Really interested in weight without the inner and the pricing.

It also appears that the vestibules will come almost to the ground if desired.

Anyone know the price? Can I preorder now?

"kind of a Mid with full use of space"

That's what I thought when I saw the first picture. It looks like everything I wanted my Duomid + inner to be after using it with another person for two weeks.

Nice tent! Wish it came in Cuben, though.

>> It also appears that the vestibules will come almost to the ground if desired.
<<

That's what grabbed my interest as well. I've not liked the traditional tarp tent plus net tent options because the tents are designed for optimum ventilation which I find to be a bit of a wind tunnel (lots of wind in my area). This new design looks like it will have tons of headroom, tie down tightly to the ground and be fairly stable in the wind... I'm liking what I see!

"The short answer is you can sleep either end."

Without crawling around on the entry/exit?

I don't understand. You enter/exit adjacent to either support pole (at the highest point). I would encourage you to look at the photos and rotation animation.

"You enter/exit adjacent to either support pole (at the highest point)."

That is my concern. It seems that in order for 2 to sleep adjacent, one would have to enter with their feet pointed to the smaller end, and then do a turn around crawl to be pointed the same direction as the other person? In other words both people can't sit up in the same direction. Entry/exit for one person of the two seems troublesome.

I have no actual tent-making experience, but this is similar to some of the offset pole tent designs I have been drawing up in Google SketchUp.

Daniel, that is incorrect.

Edited by 07100 on 08/03/2011 16:26:30 MDT.

The 3D images really help understand the concept. I'm most intrigued by the two person model and look forward to reading some reviews about it.

As mentioned already , it is a difficult shelter to figure out if you do not have a careful look at the 3d animation and the pics from different angles.
(recently I was referring to it as the "Enigma")
The main problem is that we have preconceived ideas of the way this kind of shelter look like but this isn't one of them...
As for the entry point, the door panel opens up to almost the top of the pole and that is at 50" so it is a bit more than some...
(IE no "crawling")
When the video will come out it will make the layout a bit easier to understand.
Franco

I think it will be helpful for a lot of folks once we get a chance to see a video of somebody actually walking around this tent, and sitting and laying inside of it.

And, as always...

+1 for Cuben Fiber - please Sir Henry! Especially in a Solo version!! The design of this tent would make it an amazing first (?) tent for TarpTent to make in Cuben Fiber! Really easy lines, not a lot of complicated cuts... it just screams and shouts to be made in CF!! Come on Henry!!

Henry or Franco, is the inner attached to the outer at the top? It appears that they are using the same pegs so optionally attached at the bottom. I am thinking similar to the Scarp.

On a similar note - a fabric inner option would be ideal for the shoulder season months.

@Daniel: "It seems that in order for 2 to sleep adjacent, one would have to enter with their feet pointed to the smaller end, and then do a turn around crawl to be pointed the same direction as the other person? "

My Lunar Duo acts like this. The doors are on opposite sides - that is, when my wife and I are lying down, my door is by my head, and her door is by her feet.

It has never, ever, been a problem for us.

@Henry: Looks like an awesome design.

Can someone explain what a double-wall tent means and how it's beneficial?

David :
Double wall is the US term for double skin.
In other words a tent made up of two components : an inner and a rain fly.



Some only consider one with a "solid" (all fabric) inner (called the tent in the US) a proper double wall.
The problem with that is that many "inners" have some mesh parts, so hard to tell when it is and when it isn't a double wall by that definition.

The advantage of the two components with the StratoSpire are that you can pitch it either independently or together as one.
So you can set it up as a shaped tarp, a bug net or as "tent".
Many think that a double wall minimises condensation , some think that it applies to mesh inners also, particularly if they own one.
My view is that it makes little difference apart from the fact that with a single wall you can come into contact with a wet wall (but you can wipe it down) and occasionally you get mist or even drips in some .
With a double solid layer you do not see that but I challenge folk to weigh their double wall after a night in a damp environment and see just how much moisture management is going on...
Anyway, you can always (quickly) unclip the StratoSpire inner, wipe the wall down, leave it standing a bit longer to air dry and pack it up.
Franco

These shelter are very similar to the SM Haven and Vamp tents. There are differences of course.

Regarding fabric inner as opposed to mesh inner, the mesh inner is far more comfortable. The mesh does add a lot to the warmth in the colder months be reducing drafts. A fabric inner would block more, but not something that I would like. I have been in double wall shelters with fabric inners and didn't like the lack of airflow, even in winter.

I'm assuming it pitches the same way as the SMD tents. You pitch the fly first and hang the mesh inner from the inside. This means that you have a dry inner when you have to pitch in the rain.

Additional long lines from the peak out can give extra holding power. Lines can also be attached to the door ties to reduce flapping and reduce stress on other ties.

I see a tent with too vertical of sidewalls to handle winds and stay staked it does have lots of headroom side room space but I think the cost of that will be having to camp at very sheltered locations. Maybe if some guys could be added from the top of the poles to several feet beyond the vestibules BTW I like most tarp tents

Nice design. A lot of stuff to like here.

: )

"These shelter are very similar to the SM Haven and Vamp tents"

No, nothing at all like them.
What they have in common is trekking pole support and the type fabric .
Everything else is different.
As a matter of fact the idea started with a design that I called the Circus over 4 years ago with something that looked remarkably like the new MH Hoopla.
Then it temporarily shifted to one that was similar to a then unreleased Bergans shelter, to end up with a two pole version avoiding the pole in the center bit.
Eventually the Pitch Lock corner was integrated. So what you see as the final product has gone through several changes over a few years.
But if you know tents, it isn't anything like the other two shelters you mentioned....
Franco

How wide are the pads shown in this photo?

20".
That is the SS 1 .
The SS2 takes 3x 20" mats side by side.
So the SS1 is a 1.5 , the 2 a 2.5 .
We do that just to annoy people that like to complain about having to buy a double to get a decent sized single...
Franco

My next tent. Just thought I would tell everyone that.

"My next tent. Just thought I would tell everyone that."

Very cool. Can't wait to hear your impressions of it when you get it, and the pics of course!

Very beautiful design.
+1 on fabric inner option. It would be great for colder places (like Russia most of the year :))
Width is 5 cm shorter for SS2 than Lunar Duo, weight is the same, although LD is hybrid, not true doublewall. Nevertheless for me StratoSpire would be clearly preferrable only with fabric inner.

//Edit: is the width on the TT website (52 inches) correct? As we see Franco says that the SS2 takes 3x 20" mats side by side.

Edited by joarr on 08/12/2011 06:25:33 MDT.

You can fit two mats in using the sides of the bathtub walls. Note the difference between the first pic on this thread and the one with the two mats.
Franco

Henry - Since you are participating in this discussion I wonder if you can give us a weight for just the fly on this baby?

The weight split will be posted in a day or two.
Franco

Here's what I measure on the prototypes. Please keep in mind that these aren't production yet so weights may vary an ounce or so on the final shipping models. All geometries are final.

StratoSpire1: Fly with all struts, cording, and 6 stakes = 22 ounces; interior = 10 ounces; fly shelters 47.6 sq ft

StratoSpire2: Fly with all struts, cording, and 6 stakes = 26 ounces; interior = 14 ounces; fly shelters 58.75 sq ft

-H

Henry,

Quite the inspired design! I'm impressed with the weight/headroom/footprint convergence.

Any plans to add Cuben to your line? I ask because a friend of mine has Joe/ZPack's Hexamid and is quite smitten with it. Both shelters remind me of each other in some ways. Other differences aside, the most notable difference is the material/weight.

Edited by deGuerre on 08/12/2011 22:05:57 MDT.

This kind of ruins my plans to update my Double Rainbow with the newer model. I could use the inner about 99% of the time by itself, where I am.

Pilate de Guerre
I happen to know what the Hexamid looks like, in fact in my backyard it looks like this:



because of that I really struggle to find any similarity whatsoever with the StratoSpire design.
Maybe you can give me a hint...
Franco

Edited by Franco on 08/12/2011 23:21:55 MDT.

Franco,

I wasn't implying the design was similar, but that a certain something reminded me of each other. As your pictures show the designs are pretty dissimilar, but the association remains in my mind.

Cheers.

"Any plans to add Cuben to your line?"

+1

This has been discussed before and I'm sure the answer is still no, but I'd love to see one of these with a CT2K.08 (0.74oz) fly and a CT5K.18 floor (1.5oz).

The StratoSpire looks like the ideal solution for me. I usually use the Moment and still carry poles. This thing gives me a double wall shelter that uses my poles for almost the same weight. Very interesting design but it looks like it may be a pain to setup in nasty weather.

I do not have any Cuben fiber products but would probably jump on a StratoSpire 1 if Henry decided to make a Cuben version.

Franco,
Here's a "hint".
Notwithstanding the innovations, when you look at the low denier fabric or mesh inners of many such offerings, they all amount inside to the 'pup-tent' shape Lynn Tramper posted concerns about - albeit rotated lengthwise: Not much head room, especially when sitting up from a lying position or moving about; and unsupported, thus more likely to sag, reducing inner space even more; all of which makes it necessary to make the canopy quite a bit larger and therefore heavier, to provide space enough for movement, especially when it will knock condensation from the inside of the outer wall.

We need to get away from saggy, unsupported, flat rooves, characteristic of 'pup tents'. The Rainbow and Moment (and their European predecessors) were steps in the right direction. As were the hoop tents such as Warmlite's and Roger's.

Critical, yes; but true IMO.

No worries , the Rainbow and the Moment and I expect the Warmlites will still be in production.
oddly what works best for one does not for another.
I will wait to ear comments from customers once they have the shelter set up in front of them.
Franco

I am a less is more kind of guy. I think from a aesthetic point of view the tent(s) look fantastic. If I did not currently own a rainbow, I would definitely consider picking up the single as my two-person tent.

I am wondering if I am alone in thinking the single version could have easily gotten away with less width and only one vestibule (also a weight savings)? Looks to have a rather large footprint with the two vestibules that could prove troublesome in tight spots.

Jay, yes the "1" could have done away with double doors/vestibules but space benefits aside, the ventilation benefits are enormous. Well worth the weight of a zipper. It is true that the vestibules could have been shallower and the footprint narrower but not with respect to tensioning. You would still need to run a separate guyline or guylines out to the same horizontal distance from the vertical pole for stabilization. The vestibules go out to where they go in order to eliminate any extra guylines if at least one of the two vestibules door halves is still staked (see photos). The shelters will ship with guylines for both sides so that you can tie back one or both sets of doors (see photos) and the guylines can also be run out to the existing stakes or separately for maximum stability. So..yes, it could have been narrower but there would have been a stability penalty to pay and/or you would still need guylines going out that far.

Regarding setup, we'll do a video and show you the way we do it. I do think it's easier than you fear and no more difficult than your Rainbow once you get the hang of it.

Sam, I think calling this design a "pup tent" (standard A-frame) is really missing the finer design details. I absolutely agree that large unsupported panels are a bad thing but this design replaces the A-frame large, flat side panel with two, smaller panels and the side is faceted. Look carefully and you'll see the curved, tensioned seam connecting the panels and note that the 2-piece side is not flat. In addition, there are curved seams at all other junctions and they all contribute to internal fabric tensioning, something sorely lacking from European arch poles tents you reference such as the Atko and Laser. And you're way off regarding headroom concerns. Take a look again at the diagrams further up this thread. The stretched/diagonal ridgeline and steeper end walls give you much more headroom in this design than any "pup tent."

-H

Henry -

Are you bringing these prototypes to PCT Days in Cascade Lock, OR Sept 2 - 4 and/or to the ALDHA-West Gathering at Lake Wenatchee, WA Sept 23 - 25? Those would be perfect chances for folks to see them, and the rest of your line.

Edited by wandering_bob on 08/14/2011 09:58:56 MDT.

I can't make PCT Days this year. I think the ALDHA meeting date is doable but need to clear it with my boss...

Edit: Boss says "ok". I'll be there.

Edited by 07100 on 08/14/2011 13:04:01 MDT.

I see no reason for people to get defensive about how others perceive the shelter. As a designer I can easily see the similarities between this shelter and such shelters as the Haven, the One, the Mountain Equipment AR Ultralight 2, and even the Hilleberg Rajd. It's a beautiful design and solves some of the problems of the other shelters, but really all that has been done is to offset the support poles over to the sides a bit (thus solving the "canted pole" dilemma) and two support V-poles set to prop up two corners. (not sure why the four V-pole support system like on the Scarp wasn't employed, since this actually has a lot of the design elements of the Scarp. It does solve the problem of the flat fly, however, though I think a seam along the side panel ridge lines would have given the fly a lot more strength in winds and prevent deflection... Here you can see what a difference the seams make) I'm not saying that coming up with this design is easy! And that's the thing, coming up with simplicity is one of the hardest things a designer has to face.

I'm looking hard at this shelter, though I have to find justification over my the One. Offering it in cuben would be a huge incentive for me. A solid inner would also be a real plus for me, especially where I walk and camp. The two-door design makes it a great shelter for hot climates.

I did not intend to come off as defensive, apologies if taken that way. I was intending to point out misinterpretation/misinformation.

Re: offsetting all 4 corners, there would be some additional usable floor space to be gained as the cost of decreasing slopes and at some loss to the faceted aformentioned structure, not to mention increased cost, weight, and complexity. Everything is a tradeoff as you know. There is no perfect tent that satisfies all criteria.

Not sure I understand your question/suggestion about "a seam along the side panel ridge lines"; where would that go?

Re: other shelters and seams, the only one I see with faceted sides is the Shangrila--thanks for the video link.

A solid inner for the StratoSpire is easy. We need to get things into production and then I'll take a look at inner styles.

Edited by 07100 on 08/14/2011 12:09:30 MDT.

Henry,
Possibly you missed my point. The reference to pup-tent shape was not about the outer tent; but was made with reference to the net inner shown in the first pic in Franco's post of 8/11/11. No matter how groovy the outer canopy shape may be, the inner tent shape determines the space for the occupant.

Looking at Franco's photo of the net inner, please note the flat, angled walls above the head and foot ends. That is what I was referring to with the expression, 'pup-tent shape.'

Looking at the pix on the sneak peek link to your site more carefully, it appears that the inner net at two corners may be linked inside to the apexes of the A-shaped supports. That was not shown in Franco's photo, as it was of the net inner only.

Even if that is the case, it remains a flat, unsupported roof line. This is the case, for example, with the Sea to Summit Specialist tents and the other designs that have all four corners raised (as pup tents often have). Despite that, the flat rooves limit headroom, even if their corners are raised off the ground. That is a characteristic of pup-tent shapes, and may be one reason why the dome and hoop shapes have become so popular, even with the increased pole weight. As I mentioned, the whole canopy can be magnified to reduce this problem; but the added fabric adds more weight.

Tents with these flat, unsupported rooves seem to be the current favorite for ultra-light use and manufacture, and I accept that. I just have different tastes, in terms of room to move about inside and elimination of and/or protection from sagging and condensation. Maybe I missed something while going through the photos; but I don't think so, and may just have to disagree in this case. In any event, it is good of you to contribute to these forums, and in such detail. Thank you.

BTW, had hoped you might make a larger version of the Moment at some point. With just two sturdy stakes, the tensioning of the A-shaped supports at both ends is very helpful in keeping the silnylon taut. A slightly larger one would be awesome. You could call it the "Moment-2-Moment." And yes, I would replace the poles with carbon ones MYOG, not to mention making the struts easily removable.

Edited by scfhome on 08/14/2011 22:56:28 MDT.

I'll make this my last post until we start shipping but I'll just agree with you that we "may just have to disagree in this case." First of all, looking at the interior set up standalone, with multiple pads for effect and with the raised corners tensioned downward, is not a good way to evaluate the interior tensioning. In addition, I really don't understand your point about an unsupported roof line. The inner is elastically tensioned at the two apex points, each of the 4 low corners, and both raised corners. The ridgeline is rotated with respect to the floor geometry so there's just more "up there" compared to any shelter with the ridgeline orthogonal to the floor geometry. The interior is stretched tight inside and reasonably hugs the underside of the fly geometry. Not sure what else anyone would expect. I can easily sit up and lie down (at 5'11") without touching mesh, let alone touching the higher fly. I'm quite sure people quite a bit taller than me will have the same experience. With regard to sag potential, each of the connection points use elastic and overall tensioning for both the fly and attached interior is pretty easily adjusted from inside just by boosting the (adjustable) trekking pole height as needed. I have attached a couple of photos showing the raised end and apex. The low end not shown is tensioned exactly the same as the lower corner of the raised end.



I think what you're really trying to say is that isn't an arch pole geometry and, yes, I completely agree. Arch pole geometries are great at maximizing usable volume and I'm a huge fan. The main reason I have never done a single pole pyramid style shelter is that such geometries are bad at maximizing usable volume. I have boxes of failed attempts at modified pyramids, abandoned due to frustrations with poles in the middle, and most especially usable volume. This one comes much, much closer to what it feels like in a Rainbow or other arch pole structure and I'm very satisfied with it. I think others will be as well but there is certainly no perfect shelter for all tastes and criteria.

Re: larger Moment, it's on my list but I need to figure out a light, user friendly way to deal with the necessarily longer end struts.

-H

Henry,

As a Moment owner I can say that the most obvious solution to the "larger Moment" CF end strut is, as I'm sure you know, to make the struts removable.

Yes, this means a longer set-up time but the user has the option of leaving them in if that is a problem. And, if the user(s) have a pretty good idea that there will be bad weather in the late afternoon they can always leave the struts in and strap the tent outside their pack if necesary. This may be a cue to place some light nylon webbing strips on the stuff sack for easier, more secure strapping to the pack.

Also, being a "Moment for Two" (sounds like a Cialis commercial :) there will be two people to set up the tent and replace struts, thus decreasing "erection time". (Sorry but I just couldn't let that one pass.)

BTW, Making the Scarp 2 into a single wall tent may just be the simplest way to a "larger Moment".

Edited by Danepacker on 08/18/2011 19:07:49 MDT.

Henry,
Thanks for all the additional info. It markedly improves my feeling about this tent.

FWIW to fans for a larger Moment: The remodel of my Scarp uses bungee cord to keep the struts in place in their shortened sleeves. The cord is attached at one end to a loop in the shortened grosgrain ribbon at the fabric edge, and to a pole end receptor at the other end. The struts slip easily into the sleeves, and the elastic connected receptors secure them in position. There is a cord between to two receptors to maintain the distance (A-shape) between them at the bottom ends of the struts. Unfortunately, this system would not work if the tent walls came all the way to the ground. A couple inches are required for the bungee cord to function.

I've found that external alloy ferrules are the best way to connect carbon pole (or strut) sections, but they might interfere with sliding the strut into a fairly snug grosgrain sleeve. Stronger and thicker pultruded .240" carbon tube is readily available to use for internal ferrules, but the fit is loose with outer carbon shafts of that size, including the ones that came with the Scarp. This would be a serious problem, as carbon tube joined by ferrules are much more likely to break when the fit is loose, because the force when the shaft is stressed is focused over a much smaller area. More snugly fitting materials would need to be procured. The Easton FX alloy ferrules are snug, but weight is increased by about 50% over the lighter carbon tube such as that in the Scarp struts. Easton has newer and lighter carbon poles out, but last I checked, they are not available to the general public. They would be ideal for a two section strut, however, as the elastic connector is a short piece between the tube ends, and does not need to be extended inside a longer pole in order to function effectively.

Edited by scfhome on 08/15/2011 15:59:16 MDT.

Well I had to look up "flat rooves" on Google to figure out what Samuel meant.
What he means is in effect the opposite, pitched roofs, that is : non arched roofs.
This is a flat roof :


But thanks , Samuel, for explaining that your "facts" are based on your own personal dislike of the mid type structure and that you judged the tent by the bug net (yes the mesh inner is a bug net NOT a tent...) .
I am pretty confident that most bug nets will fail your visual test too, so might as well get busy and post that where appropriate.


Franco
Added for clarification.
The above picture is from the Google search for "flat roof tent"
I used that because it isn't from a known manufacturer.

Edited by Franco on 08/17/2011 03:13:59 MDT.

Franco,
A mite snarky, mate? Being from Oz, you should be familiar with the WE bug dome, here as modified:

Cheers,
Sam

The BPL Outdoor Retailer Market Article mentions this shelter and says the MSRP will be LESS than the Scarp. The Scrap 2 is $325, so perhaps the StratoSpire will cost $299.

There's some neat 2-3 person tents announced for next year (this tent, Easton Kilo 3p etc) so I'll probably wind up buying one of them. I really like everything about this tent except I'm not a silnylon fan. I prefer PU coated nylons or cuben.

Franco,
I thought Sam's comments, while contradictory to yous and Henry's, quite polite, well thought and professional. He did nothing to elicit the childish response you followed up with. By answering the way you did, you just made yourself and your associate (Henry) look bad. VERY poor manners.The StratoSpire is a hard tent to figure out (an odd-angled pup-tent), so cut people some slack.

Pup-(Tarp?)tent:


----M

Edited by bigfoot2 on 08/17/2011 00:17:15 MDT.

Let's all just wait for Henry's video. That will mark "paid" to a lot of these questions and opinions.


Until then, let's all have some warm milk and cookies, and lie down on our blankies for a refreshing afternoon nap.

No one wants to see a "does not play well with others" notation on their report card.

for the Stratospire 1 has appeared on the tarptent website. There is no audio track.

http://tarptent.com/stratospire1.html#videos


Unfortunately, it can not be expanded to full screen size which would make it much easier to see. Maybe Henry can fix that for us.

Works for me.
(two arrows symbol bottom right corner)
Franco

It isn't intended as the full set up video but rather as a quick proof of 2-minute pitch. We'll do a much better, larger video with full audio later this Fall.

-H

Franco:

I'm aware of the arrows. When I click there, a horizontal black bar appears across the center of the video saying "UNDEFINED".

Running Internet Explorer 9 on 64 bit Win7


Either way, the video is enlightening. Nice job, Henry (as usual).

Got to look at the tent in the flesh over a week ago when I was picking up my Moment at Tarptent. It's definitely a head scratcher even in person. If the Moment doesn't work out for me, I think I know what my next tent is.

Nice vdieo. It'll probably clear up confusion about the design.

Henry, I'm not sure if it just makes everything more complicated in terms of building it, but the seam I was referring to would run from the top of the v-strut across the panel to the tip of the apex where the trekking pole meets the roof (it is right along the "faceted" fold of the side panel that the V-strut and trekking pole create). The seam would work much the same way that the seams in the Shangri-La video work, keeping the panel from bowing in during strong winds.

Miguel,

The "faceted" fold is already a curved seam. That's why I didn't understand your suggestion. When viewed from an end strut toward the dual apexes, there are two curved seams. This design would just never work well without seams there to internally tension the fabric.

-H

Henry,
Kudos. The SS2 certainly sparks some interest from this quarter. A full double layer tent for two at barely over 2# (or presumably close to 3# with poles). Nice! Of course would be interested in cuben if that ever became an option. I will continue to watch with interest.

Obviously these two tents use very different design concepts, but it's worth a comparison. Here's my take:

Stratospire advantages:
Vestibule size and flexibility
Full double wall
Greater headroom at the sides
Probably better ventilation

Solong advantages:
Greater usable (12"+) floor area enclosed by mesh (both length and width)
Smaller footprint
Lower weight (26 vs. 32 oz)

It's a draw:
Headroom along the middle 10 inches.

Questions:
Wind worthiness?
Utility of TT vestible versus Solong wedge (which adds 1.5 oz and requires a stick or pole)?

Lookin good. I sure could have used a tent where the inner doesn't have to be set up first last night.

Another request for a fabric inner please, maybe with a bit of mesh at the top of the panels. I'm in the UK and had thought a Scarp 1 would be ideal for me, but the Stratospire 1 with a fabric inner would be absolutely perfect.

RE: Stratospire 1

I watched the videos and looked at the sketches in the thread. i.e., the "pitch demo" video got me thinking and I really like the 2 peg pitch of my Moment.

Your thoughts, please: would it be possible to pitch it similarly to the way I pitch my moment. That is, tack down one of the "triangle" corners, put the poles into position and then peg the other "triangle" corner. Then peg the "square" corners. I don't think that's what was shown in the video. I get a little "Eschered-out" with these new tent configurations ! ! ! ! !

Comments, please.

Thomas
The Moment is the fastest shelter to set up that I know of.
However if you look at my two You Tubes videos (about 56sec on one and 49sec on the other) you can see that I don't do it the same way .
Sometimes I insert the pole first, if there is a bit of wind then I prefer to peg one end down first.
(in the real world it takes me about twice as long except for an embarrassing long session on a snow platform this winter , had to re-do that "platform" three times before I had enough room for it...)

The StratoSpire is a much more complex design. I hinted at that on my second post and then spelled that out in my third one.
It needs 6 pegs and like most mids/modified mids , placing the pegs in the correct spot is crucial.
The way Henry does it in that video is probably the best way because you start with having one side correctly pegged in , then you do the other side by pulling the fabric out to the correct spot , then you do the pitch lock ends.
Maybe there is an easier faster way but I will not know till I get one.It isn't going to be anywhere close to the Moment's times, just a bit faster than Henry's.
Franco

Someone had to bring it up :-)

Any thoughts Franco.

Cheers,

Stephen

In any bit of wind, you would be wise not to rely soley on two pegs....

First I think that the FG comment is about the Moment.
And yes, that type of tent should have the pole guyylines in place to remain stable in the wind.
I prefer to pitch it with the pole into the wind and almost always use those guylines anyway.

Stephen
It has to do very much with personal preferences including location and aptitude.
A pyramid or modified mid relies very much on having a strong pole or two (that is stronger than the average tent pole) and well placed stakes.
So if you do not use trekking poles there would be, maybe, better alternatives.
On difficult (rocky) ground or a platform the Scarp (or the Rainbows for that matter) would be easier to set up, particularly if using the freestanding option.
Franco

My point was only that to measure the pros and cons of two tents based on a 2 peg minimum set up v.s. a 6 peg set up ignoring the vast differences between the two tents, most notably the sheer size of the StratoSpire and double walled configuration, seems somewhat superfluous. Especially in inclement, windy weather.

Hi Franco,

I am using the Scarp 1 at the moment myself in the UK, I do use trekking poles sometimes in the Winter (BD Flicklocks).

With the Cross poles in place would you think the Scarp would be more wind worthy than the Stratospire.

I think I recall seeing a photo from you where you used the Trek poles with the Scarp to beef it up further.

cheers,

Stephen

Hi Stephen
I fiddle around a lot (for fun) but some of it is just to give others ideas of what could be done if...
The StratoSpire has been in my head for a while but till I start playing with it I would only be guessing.
So first we need to wait till it comes out.
One point to remember is that people tend to make what they like (shape/brand/colour...) work for them , the converse is true also.
Franco

I hear you Franco :-)

I am so happy with the Scarp 1 and I would buy another TT product mo questions asked.

I'm thinking the 2 person model will likely be my next tent, if the price is right. (I'm a med student, aka no money) Any word on the eta?

On the other hand, Ryan, the delta increase in your total debt, should you buy the tent, whatever it costs, will be an infinitesimal percentage.
The great enabler

Edited by swimjay on 09/01/2011 19:26:30 MDT.

There's going to be 2 versions of the Stratospire.

Stratospire 1: Sleeps 1-2, 32 oz
http://www.tarptent.com/stratospire1.html

Stratospire 2: Sleeps 2-3, 40 oz
http://www.tarptent.com/stratospire2.html

Price is still TBD.

Available in Fall 2011.

Edited by Cephalotus on 09/04/2011 14:36:55 MDT.

But at 32" wide, the Strato 1 would be overwhelmed by two people, especially trying to get a couple of sleeping pads side by side in there. So the 1-2 occupants that the website indicates it'll hold should be taken with a rather large grain of salt.

This is the inner of the solo :


this is the inner of the duo :

The bathtub floor is pushed outwards to accomodate the extra mat.

Franco

Well, that is wider than noted on the site. Cozy for two, but doable in a pinch. And a palace for one at just two pounds. Not bad. There's nothing like photos to set the story straight.

Edited by WarrenGreer on 09/04/2011 16:15:00 MDT.

Having never owned a sil nylon tent i'm curious. Will the double wall of this tent be able to help with condensation. Basically, would i notice a difference in misting, or condensation compared to a standard double wall tent. IE, MSR Hubba Hubba

The MSR Hubba Hubba doesn't do very well with condensation because it doesn't have any vents, but since it's a double wall the mesh inner protects you from contacting the condensation. The Stratospire would protect you like the Hubba Hubba does, plus it would acquire less condensation in the first place.

Firstly, love to see TarpTent attempting a double wall. I think it shows you are really after making the best tent you can, and being innovative, rather than being too attached to any one concept (not that there is anything wrong with the single wall TarpTents!). Looks like a great design too - can't wait to see one in person. My question: looks like pitching the fly (over the mesh inner, not instead of it), after the mesh inner is already pitched, would require re-pitching. Is that correct? In essence what I mean is that it seems you can't just throw the fly on top of the inner, as you do with most double wall tents, but would have to un-stake the inner, and then stake out the fly instead, with the inner cliped up to it. Is that so?

Best,
-Abe

PS Apologies if this was covered already somewhere in the thread (I don't think it was, but I only scanned some parts of it)

"Firstly, love to see TarpTent attempting a double wall."

We've been making true double walls for several years: Scarp 1, Scarp 2 and Hogback

"My question: looks like pitching the fly (over the mesh inner, not instead of it), after the mesh inner is already pitched, would require re-pitching. Is that correct?"

Technically, one could pitch the fly right over the top of an already pitched interior. To do that you would just need some elastic loops tied to the floor clips so that the interior floor corner stake points extended the correct distance from floor edge to support the normal fly stake points.

"We've been making true double walls for several years: Scarp 1, Scarp 2 and Hogback"

True, my bad - forgot about those. But all the same, nice to see (a continuation of) innovation and diverse designs.

"Technically, one could pitch the fly right over the top of an already pitched interior. To do that you would just need some elastic loops tied to the floor clips so that the interior floor corner stake points extended the correct distance from floor edge to support the normal fly stake points."

I think I follow - does that mean that the fly and inner stake points would align so that each would have one stake (through 2 stake loops)? So that when you put the fly on you just slide the fly stake loops over the existing stakes holding up the inner?

Thanks.

Lots of people asking for Cuben. I'm not all that familiar with Cuben fabric. Would that be for the fly (is Cuben waterproof?) or instead of the mesh inner? Would the reasoning just be for weight savings, or is there some other reason as well? Thanks, just wondering.

Abraham,

Yes is the answer to your pitch question.

Re: cuben, weight savings for the fly is the reason. Cost would be substantially higher--fabric is 4x the cost and the fabric width is narrower meaning that you need even more yardage to produce the same finished good.

-H

Regarding Cuben, the advantages would be:

1) Weight savings. 0.74oz and 0.51oz are the most commonly used variants for tents and they weigh about half of silnylon (~1.4oz)

2) Stretch: Cuben does permanently stretch a bit underload, but it's quite different from silnylon in that it doesn't sag when wet. Silnylon (and light variants of PU nylon) sag quite a bit when exposed to longer durations of rain. The leads to the need to re-tension your shelter and/or use self tensioning guylines in wet conditions.

3) Slipperiness. If you used cuben for the floor, normally a heavier (ie. 1.5oz) variant would be used so there wouldn't be weight savings, but it wouldn't be slippery like silnylon...so you won't have trouble with sleeping pads sliding around.

4) Waterproofness - This one is arguable, but many people consider cuben to be more waterproof than silnylon since it is essentially plastic as opposed to a coated/impregnated fabric. It's definately more waterproof (higher HH) at first, although cuben can develop tiny pinholes with use that could possible lead to some moisture penetration although this has never been observed in the field.

Disadvantages would be:

1) Price. It's a lot more expensive

2) Difficult to manufacturer. Different techniques like bonding and taping are usually required and things need to be designed a little different (ie. seams in shear instead of peel). Cuben seems to be more painstaking to worth with in my experience and if you are bonding with a liquid adhesive then you can't make the tent all in one shot.

Edited by dandydan on 09/09/2011 22:19:20 MDT.

Thanks Henry and Dan, very helpful. I am assuming then, that since it is made of plastic, Cuben is not breathable? I am asking cuz thought there is a chance it could be if it is woven the right way (kind of like Epic fabric, which I know is coated, not actually plastic fibers, but same premise, of weave allowing airflow).

Cuben is spectra strands laid between 2 sheets of mylar plastic and the whole thing is glued together with an adhesive. The spectra runs at two orientations (0 and 90 degrees) in normal cuben. So yes it's not breathable. However, they are playing around with a ton of other variants included breathable cuben that uses breathable PTFE instead of mylar. This stuff would be more applicable to clothing than tents most likely, but it's too early to say what they'll come up with. The also have 'high bias' cuben which as the spectra strands on 4 orientations (0, 45, 90, -45) and they sell hybrid cuben/nylon sandwhich fabric like you see from HMG and some Zpacks products (ie. Exos).

"The spectra runs at two orientations (0 and 90 degrees) in normal cuben."

That may be true. However, I have a cuben fiber item that seems to have a lot of spectra running randomly. I haven't figured out what that means yet. I may have to photograph it to be able to explain.

EDIT. Upon closer inspection, it appears that the spectra is running all north-south-east-west. The randomness is from random creases that appear like fibers, but are just creases.

--B.G.--

Edited by --B.G.-- on 09/09/2011 22:30:55 MDT.

Any updates on when these may be offered for sale? Any more product tests or photos out there?

site was updated. Stratosprire 2, will be 315 bucks. No price on Stratospire 1 though

Henry has uploaded his set up video of the SS2. The SS1 video vill be next.
StratoSpire2 video

Franco

Thanks for the update. $315 sounds very reasonable to me. I'm still struggling with the silnylon thing (I'd happily pay $200 more for cuben), but the design is brilliant and I love how the inner is protected during setup. I'm mulling over the StratoSpire, SMD Cuben Haven and Easton Kilo 3P as tent options for next year. The StratoSpire leads the way on a price and design brilliance for sure.

Nice to see these will be going on sale this month, so there should be lots of feedback from users before I need to buy (ie. March).

It appears to set up quite well with just 6 stakes which is good. My 'freestanding' tent now really needs 9 stakes to get a nice pitch.

Am I correct that there are no storage pockets in the inner?

Edited by dandydan on 11/04/2011 23:01:11 MDT.

I didn't see the video that was posted. I think the tent is still really cool, but the price is a little more than i was expecting. I was thinking around $285 or so... I'll have to think a little harder about this one.

Edited by paintballswimguy on 11/04/2011 22:40:36 MDT.

Appears to me that the StratoSpire 2 is a truncation of a regular icosahedron,and the StratoSpire 1 is the same form compressed along one horizontal axis.

Kudos for approximating a faceted sphere(oid) (and thus maximizing volume for given surface area / material / weight) in a tensile canopy with minimal supports.

(Though as an architectural purist, I would be subtly bothered by the "declination" - the off-axis orientation of the sleeping rectangle to the tensile polyhedron).

Now that Henry has posted his version of the StratoSpire set up, this is mine :
TT SS2 set up

This is my second full set up. The first time it took me about 2:40 sec.
After playing with it for a while I took it down and set it up again and this is it.

A couple of ideas I had in my head...
Lunch time/play time tarp. You can get 5-6 people out of the rain under it in this mode :



At a pinch you could get 4 mats and still be rain protected.
The yellow guyline is directly under the "beak".




Franco at the other Tarptent
franco@tarptent.com

Edited by Franco on 11/06/2011 23:51:30 MST.

I like your style better Franco. Especially having the pole tips down

It was deliberately designed to take them either way , but I use the handle up for two reasons :
1) no chance of pocking a hole through the fabric
2) I use the pole tip (when possible) as a stake.
There is a downside though.
If not set up straight and in tension they can slip out of that "pocket" so for most the carbide tip inside the grommet would be safer.
I left it up for the night. It rained most of the night(I often wake up) but for some reason there is no sag whatsoever.
Don't know why.
It does have shock cords at the non Pitch Lock guyout points, maybe that was it...
Franco

Edited by Franco on 11/08/2011 18:48:46 MST.

Thanks for the photos, Franco!

That's very helpful, especially since none of the tarptent.com videos work in my browser.

Hi Todd,
Sorry about that. What browser do you have ?
I am about to edit a "tour" video that I just shot this afternoon. I will post the link here.
Franco
I have uploaded the new video clip :
StratoSpire Grand tour

Edited by Franco on 11/07/2011 23:33:32 MST.

"Sorry about that. What browser do you have ?"

Firefox 7.0.1, running under Linux. This is a recent problem; everything on tarptent.com used to work. Don't know if it was a change on the site or an update on my end. I did try with a different browser last night (Chrome) and it worked fine.

I sold my Double Rainbow to help finance one of these, and now Paypal has let me nickel and dime the money away. Oh well.

Very interesting tent. This is definitely on my list for next year. I've been looking for a comfortable one-person tent. It's going to be SS1 or MSR Nook.

Hm,

After seeing your vid Franco it looks like you are touching both ends as you lay there. I am a lot longer than you are so maybe this won't work for me.

Hi Ray
A picture tells a thousand words and a video at 24 frames per second can be just too much...
Yes, I have noticed that in one spot it looks that way but there is plenty of space inside .
I will take a still later today to show you.
(I need somehow to grow to 6'3" for that but it can be done)


After breakfast

OK
The net inner has about 5" of clearance all around.
The combined length of the Exped mat and the MontBell pillow is about 80".
The floor is 85" long.

In the second shot , the one with my foot in the air, my head is on the 6' mat , yours would be on the pillow.

A person 6'5" tall will fit.
(note that I am on top of a 7cm mat)
Franco

Edited by Franco on 11/08/2011 13:47:13 MST.

Sheer brilliance. This may be the perfect 2 person, 3 season, double walled shelter available. It hits all of the right 'buttons:'

-double walled.
-double vestibule.
-outer pitch first.
-sets up with trekking poles.
-modular.
-floor protection or not.
-bug protection or not.
-massive usable space.
-lightweight.

One thing that I do like from the the pics and video it that one can fully see the offsetting trekking poles. This is NOT a simple A-frame design.

Henry - please have the 1 person ready for January. Someone has a birthday....; )

(Franco, pull yer weight, eh?)

David
I keep reminding Henry that we want solo shelters not those double things , but customers just to annoy me keep ordering doubles and even those 3 person and 4 person shelters..
People can be so unkind at times.

A mate had ordered a 10x12 tarp to erect during lunch breaks and in the evening , after we have been rained on a few times of late.
He uses a WW2 flame thrower to cook (melt/burn food) with in winter ( called an XGK) and I reckon that we can use that contraption inside the SS2 fly only without smelling melted nylon.
So the SS2 will be larger and lighter than using the Contrail plus that tarp. (I still like to sleep solo)


Franco
(BTW, he uses the HGK because it works, even at -40)

Edited by Franco on 11/09/2011 20:45:11 MST.

Franco, your videos are very descriptive, excellent marketing tools. Watched a bunch of your video. Anyway, I like this tent. Nice bit of engineering on Henry's part.

Henry or Franco
Any idea on when the price and ship dates will be available for the SS1?
Thanks for what looks like a winner.

It's looking like sometime around Dec 10 for ship start. I think we should be able to set the pricing in a week or so.

-H

Thanks Henry for the update.

My StratoSpire 2 arrived yesterday. Haven't even had a chance to pull it out of the bag yet, but with some luck will be able to at least get it out and look it over in the living room tomorrow. Carpeted floors won't accept the stakes too well, so no guarantees when I can get it set up for a true evaluation.

Dan
I just took mine for a spin in the Aussie Alps.(3 nights only)
After having used the Rainbow/Contrail and Moment it felt odd for me to have so much space (for myself only) but it was great to spend time under it in heavy rain during a full afternoon and not to need to wipe the walls down.
Due to my shoddy seam sealing (I hurriedly did that on a hot humid day outside...) I was able to follow the progress of some drips as they made their way down on the mesh to the corner...
(unfortunately too few to see where they were coming from so I will need to do a couple of seams again)
Anyway I was more than happy to carry the extra weight to be able to have so much rain protected space and get a good night sleep when the other campers got soaked with condensation in their fully sealed up shelters.
My mate was inside his Moment and slept well too, but he does that anytime the temp is below 60f or so.
Note that on the last day I placed the door to enjoy the view of the valley below :


Franco
franco@tarptent.com

Edited by Franco on 11/20/2011 13:17:30 MST.

Found a little bit of time to set up the new SS2 on Friday and snap a few photos.
Looking forward to trying it out properly, but it could be a while as I am getting booked up with the holidays approaching...












Shows width with a NeoAir Large (25" wide).

Dan, nice shots. So, tell us, how tall are you? I know the pad is 77" long and notice that it appears that you take up much of that. It looks like you have just a few inches on each end of the tent. I only ask because the person I hike with is 6' 7". Thanks for getting out and taking a few photos. Your new SS2 looks pretty awesome. And is a nice early Christmas present too.

Hi Warren,

I'm in the range of 6' to 6'1" tall. I believe that 6'7" would be a bit much in the inner tent if your hiking partner were stretched out on a thick inflatable pad, but it could be possible. If I'd had someone with me to measure when I did my test-pitch, I could have gotten more exact measurements for you, but the photos I included are the best I can provide right now. Sorry about that. On the plus side, there is some substantial space between the inner mesh tent and the outer tarp. The outer tarp would undoubtedly be large enough for someone 6'7" tall. Furthermore, my hope is that even with bad condensation buildup on the inside of the tarp, a sleeping bag rubbing along the insides of the inner mesh tent wouldn't get wet. There is probably at least 3 to 4 inches of space between the inner and outer tent on both ends. Hope this helps a bit.

It does. Thanks Dan. Can't wait to hear how it works in the field.

Finally got around to doing some test pitches of my StratoSpire 1 in each configuration. Minor complaint - the tent that was shipped to me had the inner mesh ridgeline supports clipped in to the opposite ends that they should have been. Once I figured that out and corrected, pitching went smoothly.

Hi David

> -double walled.
I will have to dissent: single-skin with internal mossie net. NOT double walled.
Double-walled in my book requires full fabric inner tent with no netting sections. But I am seriously biased.

Interesting design though.

Cheers

After deliberating for a couple months between the Easton Kilo 3P and the StratoSpire2, I ended up buying a StratoSpire 2. I like the Easton's PU fabric floor and freestanding design, but the non-exposed inner setup of the StratoSpire, dual doors, dual vestibules and lighter weight was enough to sway me in this direction. It arrived today.

I just did one quick setup in my (small) living room using chairs etc to set it up. I can't speak to the finer details of this tents setup since I couldn't even really tension the tent with the light chairs I was using, but I am really impressed with the overall design concept. It's brilliant. I like how it protects the inner during setup, how it only requires 6 stakes, and how there aren't guy lines all over the place, since all the stakes are around the perimeter of the tent fly. Hopefully sometime soon I'll be able to set it up properly and actually evaluate the pitch and internal space.

I definitely never thought I'd be back to having a silnylon tent again. I'm fine with it for the fly, but I really don't like silnylon floors (slippery, not that waterproof...I much prefer PU nylon). It speaks to the excellence of this design that I bought one anyway despite disliking silnylon floors. The stuff is indeed slippery and I'm going to have to dot the bottom of my sleeping pads with silicone. At least the bathtub floor of the tent is anchored at the 4 corners. My previous silnylon floored tent (SMD Refuge X) just had a hanging floor that loved to slide around on the ground, so the floor would slide into the vestibule even if my pad was securely stuck to the top side of the floor which I treated with silicone/mineral spirits.

Once I get this seam sealed and get some silicone on the bottom of my pads, I think my wife and I are going to really like this one. It's going to be a lot more livable in the rain than my previous tent, which required the inner set up before the fly and it had a door way that let rain fall in.

EDIT: I nearly forgot the weights. Pre-seam sealing, the tent (fly + inner) weighs 38.57oz. The six stake kit from TT weighs 2.4oz, but I'll likely use lighter ones. The Easton poles for setting this up weigh 5.6oz. So using trekking poles and lighter stakes, this tent will likely come in around 41oz after seam sealing plus another 0.7oz for the stuff sack. 2.6 lbs is pretty sweet for a double wall tent of this size.

Edited by dandydan on 01/07/2012 21:29:40 MST.

Cool. Nice weight as well. Can't wait to see photo's and hear about your impressions in the field.

I received an SS2 for Christmas. I set it up in the yard a few nights ago. I LOVE the design. It took quite a while for me to get the hang of setting it up the right way. I suspect using trekking poles, instead of the optional easton poles may make the setup process a little easier, allowing a little less stress to be placed on the poles... I can't wait to get this thing seam sealed and outside where it belongs.

Slick looking shelter for fair weather camping, sure wouldn't want to pitch that thing in a pinch somewhere up high or exposed when real weather hits.

"sure wouldn't want to pitch that thing in a pinch somewhere up high or exposed when real weather hits"
depends what you mean by up high or real weather.
They are three season tents with (my opinion) a bit better support/tensioning options than most mids.

(before the rain)

On the third night of the first trip I used it , we happen to be at a popular spot in the Victorian Alps, Mt Feathertop.
It is a bit of a hill (about 5700') but the weather can get nasty at any time of the year.
We arrived just after lunch when it started to rain and kept raining , hard on and off, till lunch the next day.
It was a bit windy during the night, not that much but enough to send a couple of tarp guys inside the refuge.
In the morning, chatting inside the nearby refuge, it sounded like my mate in his Moment and myself in the SS2 were the only guys out of the occupants of another 8 or 9 tents, that remained dry and slept all night.
From that, after having our shelters "inspected" three Tarptents orders were placed, two Moments (the tarp guys...) and one SS2 to an experienced couple .
But as it already has been obvious to the ones that have it, the SS2 is not necessarily the pup tent some think it is...
Franco

Edited by Franco on 01/09/2012 03:28:58 MST.

Hey Franco. I'm curious about the purpose/functionality of the optional guy outs on the fly. In the picture below you've got the tent set up using them.

Since the fly doesn't connect to the mesh inner underneath this guy out area, it seems using these guy outs wouldn't increase the living space while using the inner. So I'm curious which of these are the correct reason(s) for deploying these guy outs:

1) Increased strength for winds/minor snow loads (seems true)
2) Increased interior space when not using the mesh inner (perhaps true)
3) Increases the gap between the fly and inner, which prevents a condensation covered fly from contacting the inner.

That last point is really what I'm wondering. Assuming #1 and #2 are true, I would still use a 6 stake setup for most trips, but if #3 is true then I'd want to bump up my stake count to 8 and it would add a bit more hassle to the setup. How does the SS2 fare with regards to keeping a wet fly from sticking to the inner? My last tent (Big Agnes Fly Creek UL3) was pretty bad for this. I had to bump the stake count from the minimum of 6 up to 9, to get the fly as tight as possible, but it would still often stick to the inner in a few unsupported areas.

The SS2 seems like a great tent for rainy areas with the protected inner setup, and the protected doors, so I'm hoping it doesn't have significant issues with a wet, saggy fly getting stuck to the inner, as that kinda kills the whole point of a double wall tent.

Edited by dandydan on 01/10/2012 12:28:41 MST.

Franco is still upside down and asleep so I'll answer for him. Those extra pullouts are intended for snow load and high winds. They are not needed just to keep the fly off the mesh. If you want to increase the mesh distance from fly, unclip the two apex points and reconnect to the attached elastic loops (which is also the procedure for allowing the interior to widen for 3 sleeping pads).

-H

Henry, any plans to offer the SS2 with a solid inner like the Scarp?

Thanks for chiming in Henry. I appreciate the answer.

The weather is finally a bit nicer here in Whistler, so hopefully later today or tomorrow I'll be able to get outside for a proper test pitch.

Don't know yet, honestly. It's an easy thing to do but I'm trying to give my sewers some time to absorb all the new models before throwing even more stuff at them. Feel free to check with us directly in a month or two.

-H

Ok, so this tent seems pretty much perfect, but what are the drawbacks?

Just skimming the thread they seem to be
-Silinylon floor (possible water issues?)
-Not free-standing (I've always used stakes though)

Anything else?

Here's something I've been wondering for a while now. Most tents that use small poles to raise the corner only use one pole per corner. The Stratospire (and I think other TT models as well) use two small poles per corner. Why is this? It would be lighter to just use one and I don't really see advantages to using more.

One of the reasons I'm asking is because I plan on making my own tent later this year and it will have raised corners.

"If you want to increase the mesh distance from fly, unclip the two apex points and reconnect to the attached elastic loops"
I finally got to set up my SS2 outside today. You're right the guy outs aren't necessary to keep to the fly off the inner. It soggy PNW type conditions I probably will clip the inner lower to the elastic loops to get it further away from the fly along the ridge line. Head room still seems good with the inner an inch or two lower.

"Ok, so this tent seems pretty much perfect, but what are the drawbacks?"

This tent is really good (based upon just a couple quick setups and no real field experience). I'll mention a few areas that some people would view as drawbacks, while other people would prefer these for the weight or cost savings. It really depends on what you're looking for.

1) No inner pockets. Some people will miss these but it does save weight & cost. I'd prefer two.

2) Non-freestanding. Saves a lot of weight, but if you're camping on sand or snow then you need to be prepared with the proper stakes. A little more skill is required.

3) Materials. Silnylon is a good all-around fabric but I would prefer a less slippery and more waterproof PU coated 30D nylon floor. I would also prefer a lighter cuben fly, but it would add 50% or so to the price so it's not for everyone.

4) Regular (i.e. Non-water resistant) zips. The StratoSpire uses regular zippers in the fly with a flap of silnylon material over the zipper to keep water mostly out. This is a common practice, but a lot of higher end tents will use waterproof (ie. uretek) zippers, like the ones you'll see as the main zipper on a higher end shell jacket. The benefits of these uretek zippers are increased waterproofness and no hassles with the flap getting snagged in the zipper. I'd love to see Henry add these for V2.

And some eye Candy:

Edited by dandydan on 01/10/2012 17:05:46 MST.

Those poles look very thin, what are they?

"Those poles look very thin, what are they?"
They're the TT poles that are an optional accessory. They are a bit flexy but strong enough for normal conditions. You'd want trekking poles if you're planning on encountering snow.

Trekking poles would be ideal, as they're stiffer and they're easier to set up the tent with, because you can have them a few inches short to insert them easily and then raise them to full height a bit later. This is minor though.

I plan to normally use trekking poles, but I ordered these because my wife's GG LT4 poles might be a bit short, as they are the small size that go to 49" and this shelter as spec'd at 50". Her poles will probably work, but one is broken right now.


"Most tents that use small poles to raise the corner only use one pole per corner. The Stratospire (and I think other TT models as well) use two small poles per corner. Why is this? It would be lighter to just use one and I don't really see advantages to using more. "
I haven't thought about this enough to explain it from a design/engineering standpoint, but the 2 strut corners are really strong and stable, since in combination with the guy line they form a tripod like structure. A single strut pole would be more prone to flopping side to side since its not 3 legged. The TT corners are quite strong. I think there's a video someone of Franco nearly standing on one.

Edited by dandydan on 01/10/2012 17:16:29 MST.

I've got a weekend family trip coming up in the desert mountains which will be the maiden voyage for my SS2. Looking forward to trying it out and running it through its paces. Will try to get some action photos of it for posting.

> 1) No inner pockets. Some people will miss these but it does save weight & cost. I'd prefer two.

I was never entirely happy with pocket placement or function down low so I opted for two interior clips at the top of each door zipper. You can hang whatever you like off those clips including a suspended line. The clips are entirely pole supported so even relatively heavy stuff is fine.

-H

Well, I'd like a couple of pockets too. Near your head to put my tiny flash light in and my sunglasses so they are safe. Oh, and I wouldn't mind having one of these TT Strats either.

"Slick looking shelter for fair weather camping, sure wouldn't want to pitch that thing in a pinch somewhere up high or exposed when real weather hits."

That's pretty funny, actually. Not as good as the Trail Star, eh - when 'real weather hits.'

What the heck is 'real weather?'

Edited by FamilyGuy on 01/10/2012 23:01:41 MST.

It's alright Mufasa, retract your claws, it's just fabric.


~11,000'.... shoulder season....exposed ridge walking?

The SS2 isn't a shelter I would have in my pack under the circumstances above, that's all, just thinking aloud like everyone else here and expressing my opinion. I'm sure the SS2 will serve users faithfully in nasty bits of weather like Franco shared in his actual experience with the brilliant SS2 (*thanks btw Franco), but the pitching setup is more involved than I prefer in a shelter when all I want is one that can provide expedited shelter from inclement weather with as few steps as possible.

Eugene;
here is my SS2 set up video.
Do keep in mind that I opened the box about an hour before and this was my second attempt :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyQT9JHloQM&list=UU0PuLUKvG7Fxxex5BMVK4vw&index=5&feature=plcp
(the first time took almost 3 minutes because I was trying to figure out why Henry does it his way)
What you see is a set up in ideal conditions but please show me your shelter being set up in also ideal conditions in one take.
No camera cuts/editing and so on...
btw, I do have a bit of an idea of how mids (single and duo poles) behave. I would be happy to pitch the SS2 anywhere any other guy is happy to pitch his...
( no I don't mean those 30lbs arctic tents some mistake for "pyramid " tents
(that is the famous "i Have seen this type of shelter used in the Arctic..." no you have not.
Franco

This is just an observation, and in no way meaning any disrespect or mockery to anyone. I find most set-up videos very helpful and informative. Kudos to all who take the time to share their videos.

But....


Setting up any shelter in the wilderness is almost always more difficult than a flat piece of cultivated turf. Trees, plants, rocks (both above and below ground), hard ground, logs, roots, uneven ground, and inclement weather--or a combination thereof-- all make setting up camp MUCH different than a calm backyard or nicely groomed campsite. Even oddly shaped and hard tent sites can be difficult.


Of course, I could just be bad at setting up my shelters.

Edited by T.L. on 01/11/2012 01:20:44 MST.

That is why I stated "ideal conditions".
Eugene questioned the set up yet I see no evidence that his fav shelter is easier to do.
Mind you , not that two or three minutes is really that important, but don't make it an issue if you can't back it up.
Franco

"3) Materials. Silnylon is a good all-around fabric but I would prefer a less slippery and more waterproof PU coated 30D nylon floor. I would also prefer a lighter cuben fly, but it would add 50% or so to the price so it's not for everyone."

This would be an awesome option on almost any shelter, especially cool on the SS1 or SS2.

Hey did you find that the tent poles sunk into the ground at all? Mine are doing it. I was thinking about adding some kind of cap or tip to spread out the weight. Something like a trekking pole tip would be perfect.

"~11,000'.... shoulder season....exposed ridge walking? "

What kind of 'real' weather would you experience here? I can tell you that 11,000 feet in the Canadian Rockies exposed during the shoulder season is much different than that in say California. There we would experience horizontal rain, freezing rain, sub freezing conditions in July, snow, windchill of -15 to -20C, etc.

I ask a simple question and I get you with your chest puffed out. YOU made the comment that the SS2 is only good for fair weather camping. Now back it up.

"It's alright Mufasa, retract your claws, it's just fabric."

Really?

Edited by FamilyGuy on 01/11/2012 09:15:01 MST.

Yes Dave, I'm a "snarky little turd"....it pairs well with your sarcasm.

Sorry Dave, I don't have much desire to go around defending or "backing up" an insignificant comment made casually in passing on a forum. Forgive me for not possessing an equivalent amount of ecstaticism as you for this new Tarptent creation. It is a brilliant shelter, just not the tool for me right now. I'm sure I could be convinced otherwise, Franco is making it hard to look away from the SS2.

I took that back because I really don't know how tall you are.

I don't have 'love' for any shelter and in fact, own a Trail Star but I much prefer contextual commentary because it helps everyone understand perspective.

I forgive you.

I'm 5'11, so a slightly taller than average turd by US standards for males.

I'll work on my context here within the forums Dave.

I would appreciate that. In fact, your context is vital for everyone to not only understand your perspective but also to learn from it. Including me.

I appreciate not calling me Mufasa. I am more of the Scar type.

Good weather set up:


Bad weather set up:


Time from A to B 13.5 sec
See if you can shut the door in your tarp.
BTW, if in exposed areas I always have guylines in place regardless of shelter or weather.
So just pretend that guylines were in place in the pics above.
Franco

I don't own any shelters with a silnylon floor, but my understanding is that they aren't very waterproof, a groundsheet is usually required to protect against punctures, and they are slippery. I've never used a groundsheet, but the floors on my shelters are all PU coated nylon and something heavier than 30D. Concerns with waterproofness and durability continue to deter me from purchasing a TT, even though I love some of the new designs. So, here's are my questions:

1. How heavy of PU coated nylon floor would most people here require to be comfortable going without a groundcloth?
2. Could it be lighter, more waterproof, and cheaper to use a PU coated nylon floor (without groundsheet) than silnylon (with groundsheet)?

>I don't own any shelters with a silnylon floor, but my understanding is that they aren't very waterproof, a groundsheet is usually required to protect against punctures, and they are slippery.

Thomas, I can tell you that that we just don't get reports of floor water intrusion and floors just don't come back for repair (and lots of users don't bother with groundsheets). We have been using "Shield" (an invented brand name quoted elsewhere) silnylon, actually a Sil-PU double coating blend, for almost 10 years on floors. You're correct about slip factor and cost and incorrect about weight.

-H

"Hey did you find that the tent poles sunk into the ground at all?"
Yes they did an inch or two when I really tensioned up the ridgeline. It would probably be prudent to use a bit of wood or rock under the poles if you're camping on soft-medium ground and desiring a night tight pitch. A cap for the end would be ideal. In my case, I plan to pretty much always use hiking poles.

"I don't own any shelters with a silnylon floor, but my understanding is that they aren't very waterproof, a groundsheet is usually required to protect against punctures, and they are slippery. I've never used a groundsheet, but the floors on my shelters are all PU coated nylon and something heavier than 30D. Concerns with waterproofness and durability continue to deter me from purchasing a TT, even though I love some of the new designs.

You're sorta mixing two things...the fabric (ie. 30D nylon) and the coating (ie. silicone or PU/polyurethane). Silcone coated nylon is often called silnylon.

30D Nylon - 30D Nylon is a fairly light nylon, but with reasonable care it does just fine as a tent floor without a ground sheet. You don't want to pitch on gravel driveways, but otherwise it'll do fine as long as you do a quick scan of your camping spot to avoid big sharp sticks, broken glass shards etc. My last 3 or 4 tents have all had a 30D nylon floor, and I only ever put a small hole in one when I car camped on a gravel pad, despite never using a ground sheet. If you're hard on your floors, you could consider a 70D nylon floor instead. SMD offers both. FYI, when nylon is called '30D' it refers to the thickness of the individual strands of nylon that are woven together. The higher the number, the coarser and stronger the fabric (and heavier).

Coating - Virtually all mainstream tent manufacturers use PU (polyurethane) coated nylon. The PU coating gives it a bit more strength, but mostly it's there for waterproofness. Depending on the thickness/type etc of the coating, the waterproof (ie. hydrostatic) rating varies from lows are 1200mm up to 10,000mm.

A lot of cottage manufacturers use silicone coated nylons instead of PU coated nylon. I'm not sure how this originated, but it might have been because light/low denier (ie. 30D) nylons may have first become available in silicone. Mainstream manufacturers don't' use silnylon because it can sustain a flame if you light it on fire, so it doesn't meet some fire regs in somes areas, whereas PU nylon will self extinguish. Like PU coated nylon, the waterproof rating varies but it's generally lower around 1200mm but sometimes it's 2500mm. I'm not sure what the actual spec is for TT's silnylon.

The weight of silnylon and PU nylon is quite close for the same durability of nylon (ie. 30D). 30D nylon weighs about 1.1oz per square yard and after it's been treated with silicone it usually weighs around 1.4oz. PU coatings are slightly heavier, but we're talking about a finished weight around 1.5oz or 1.6 I believe....so the weight difference for the floor is maybe 0.2 - 0.4oz total.

Key Points:
- As long as you aren't' camping in puddles, the waterproofness of a normal silnylon should be enough to keep the water out. I've only had trouble with a 1200mm rated floor once and that was an older tent (non-TT) camped on snow.
- 30D nylon (whether it's silicone or PU coated) is durable enough to use without a groundsheet as long as you exercise reasonable care.
- Silnylon is slippery, you'll want to dot the underside of your pads with silicone to prevent sliding.
- On average, silnylon is less waterproof than PU coated nylons
- On average, silnylon is a hair lighter.

I personally prefer PU because the weight difference is negliable and it eliminates the slipperyness. The increased waterproofness is more of a side bonus in case things go sideways and your campsite floods. This is for tent floors, for the fly it really doesn't matter, although some might still prefer the PU because it doesn't hurt to have a more waterproof fabric.

Edited by dandydan on 01/12/2012 17:37:41 MST.

30 D is 30 Denier.
That is the weight of 9000 linear meters of that yarn (30g)
So a 70 D floor will be about 2.3x heavier (but not necessarily thicker) than a 30D floor.
Franco

Thanks Franco. It's amazing 9 km of that yarn only weighs 30g. Hard to fathom even.

Edited by dandydan on 01/23/2012 23:21:52 MST.

Thanks, Dan and Henry, for your comments. Very helpful.

Based on some of the comments here, is the consensus that the SS2 would be a more wind and storm worthy shelter than the Double Rainbow? It has many of the features I like in my current DR + being double walled ish (mesh and not a fabric inner), so if the SS2 is more stable in strong winds, I might be inclined to make a new purchase...

Thanks for the feedback.

The DR should accept treeking poles vertically at each entrance (there are grommets there with the single Rainbow so I am making an assumption here). I would think that with the pole and two vertical trekking poles, the wind performance of the DR would be superb.

Franco will weigh in here.

I haven't used an SS2, but judging by looks, I'd think the DR would be better in winds and storms.

Ahh ok, thanks. So, although the SS2 has the trekking poles on either side of the tent, it does not have the center poles for additional support that the DR has which may make the difference in wind stability?

Hopefully Franco will weigh in as well.

If they are similar in wind performance I guess the primary choice is deciding between potential for free standing with the DR or double-walled with the SS2. Henry keeps making these decisions tough for us!

I had my SS1 out 2 weeks ago with 20mph winds gusting in 30s with light sleet overnight. She held out extremely well I was bone dry, warm and slept like a baby.. I had the ridge line guys out for extra support but they weren't really needed it was a just in case the ice really piled on.

Very shortly I will be purchasing notch as well for the SS1 is a bit on the big side.. Overall five stars from me! an a snap to set up

Do you know about the optional liner for the DR? It effectively turns the DR into a double wall shelter. Not a "true" double wall, but similar.

> Thomas, I can tell you that that we just don't get reports of floor water
> intrusion and floors just don't come back for repair (and lots of users don't
> bother with groundsheets).

I spent a night in a Scarp 1 on soggy ground from a full day's rain, and even though the rain continued into the night, I had no problems with water getting into the tent. I did not use a groundsheet.

I have used a Scarp is some horrendous weather in the UK and Ireland and never have had any water intrusion through the groundsheet. I dont bother with a groundsheet protector.

The SS2 stands up with six pegs.
That will work for mild weather with a bit of wind resistance in particular if a Pitch Lock corner is pointed into it.
For best wind performance and some snow loading you need to put more tension onto it.
That is done with the two extra guylines.


Having those two in place you have tension from the 4 cardinal points .
I have not had strong winds on it but judging by what I had and just the way the structure feels set up like that I would be more confident inside there than in most other (backpacking ) mid type tents.
Franco

@Doug - great to hear it performed so well for you.

@Travis - Thanks, I am aware of the inner and have one but have never tried it. It does add a few more ounces which would put it a bit above the weight of the SS2.

Franco,
Is that an effect of a wide-angle lens, or are the doors under the additional guylines almost vertical?

updated:
I think I found the answer myself. The diagrams you have posted on the first page show the angle as it is, without optical effects :)

Edited by ssv310 on 01/25/2012 14:55:39 MST.

I too would prefer a mostly solid inner if it were available and a non slippy groundsheet if it were available at not much greater weight.
If another trek pole (right by the upwind pitchlock corner) is used to lift the centre seam using the 2 loops provided, would it not be an advantage to provide loops on some of the other nearby seams for even more wind/snow defense?
What attracts me is the solid geometry solution that breaks up the usual flappy rectangle that you get with the roof of a 2 trek pole tent.
Would it not be an advantage to link all these loops to the inner to lift it to get even more inner room?

I have been on this site on and off for about 3 years and never bothered to register before. I registered today after reading all the 10 or so pages in this thread and the few more pages on outdoorsmagic wen I should've been asleep 2 hours ago.

I have never considered a tarp tent before because they always felt clumsy to me - this is a whole other thing. Great inovative design, kudos to you. Love the videos, appreciate all the feedback to potential costumers. I wish I could testdrive one of these.. I'm all the way here in Brazil where the weather is hot and damp, it's not uncommom to get wind gusts and downpour and some other times just haze throught the day.

Question.. the footprint is quite large, is it at all possible to have it set up without stretching the vestibule doors? I don't mean having them rolled up, I mean with the vestibule doors pulled down to the ground but not stretched out, if it makes any sense...

I think all I need to be sold on the SS is a video of it withstanding wind storms!

Cheers
kat

Edited by katish on 04/11/2012 09:22:54 MDT.

What is the benefit of this tent over Scarp 2?

The Scarp is heavier as uses poles, the Stratosphire uses walking poles, I have borh models if you had any questions.

It might be too late now as I ordered it yesterday! I also see that the Strato packs up smaller and has greater internal space and head height. I cannot think of a single reason to buy the Scarp 2 over it now, do you agree?

Hi Paul,

You could still change your order.

I will use the Ss1 for 3 Season use in the Us
And the Scarp for all year round in Uk/Ireland.

They are very different shelters.

Stephen

Maybe the scarp can take more of a battering, but in every other respect the SS must be better? I can't see any other way of looking at it!

1.Heavy snowfall
2. High winds.

Thanks Stephen - what sort of winds can the Strato take, in your experience? Apologies for not responding to your PM yet, I can't yet work out how to get into the PM System!

Hi Paul,

I have had the Scarp out in 70+mph wind & it worked well, I have not used the SS1 in high winds yet so can't comment at all. but I can say thta with strong poles and solid pegs it should do very well.

Regarding the PM you need to be logged in to the website and follow the link on the PM email, if you want to reply with your email address here I will email you.

Cheers,

Stephen

Hi Katia,
I don't think anyone answered your question re the large footprint and staking the vestibule doors straight down to minimize the size of the overall footprint. Despite Mr. Shires insistence that "it just isn't that big", I can assure you that it is a large footprint indeed. Plan on needing a space approx. 8'x8' for pitching this palace. It's huge if you're a solo hiker like me that is accustomed to smaller accommodations. All the space is awesome, just be prepared to find the space to pitch it.

The short answer to your question is no- not without a whole lot of extra material flapping in the wind anyway. But, as coincidence would have it, I had the exact same concerns and emailed Henry Shires about making some modifications on the vestibule doors on both sides of the tent, so that I could stake one vestibule or the other straight down. He ended up adding an extra tie down on each door to stake to the ground as well as a hook and a loop to one of the doors in order to gather the extra material that you wind up with when the material goes straight down instead of being extended out. Thanks again to Henry for that solution by the way.

I literally just got my SS1 yesterday so I have not field tested the mods yet, but they look very promising experimenting with it set up at home at least.

With the vestibules being about 3' wide on each side, this mod effectively makes the overall footprint more like 5' by 8'. In some of the terrain I camp in (desert sage and canyons), this can make the difference between more readily finding a spot to pitch the tent or slogging on in hopes of finding a larger site.

Hope that helps you- and anyone else wondering the same thing. I was wondering if I was the only person that thought of this!

Derek,

At least as far as your preference for a mostly solid inner, according to Henry, this will be an available option sometime in the next couple months. I think it's referred to as a "semi-solid interior". I forget what model he compared it to (Scarp?) but it's similar to the Notch semi-solid option, but higher than that.

Edited by Kane on 05/04/2012 21:28:43 MDT.

A few recent SS2 pics. Tent is working out well.



This deer was intrigued by the SS2 design

I'm considering the SS2, and so foot print size was my main concern also. Just wondering how your mods have been working out Petrovski? Do you mind if I ask how much extra you had to pay for them?

How are folks getting on with their Stratophire's?

I have used my SS1 for 4 trips so far and I am very happy with it, on one of the trips a buddy and I slept under the fly with plenty room to spare, I also bought the semi solid inner.

I recently got a SS1 which I plan to use with my wife. Haven't tried it out with two pads inside the inner net, but I think it'll work since we don't mind being snug. So far I set it up in the yard to seam seal it and I love the design. I'm anxiously awaiting a chance to go on a trip, hopefully Zion in April.

Franco has a video on YouTube with two pads inside, its doable but would be very cosy :-)

I know there is not a chance in hell my wife would want to sleep in with two.

I am interested to hear how folks have gone with the ss1/ss2