Concentrated Aquamira
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Chris Lucas
(ChemE) - F

Locale: SC
Concentrated Aquamira on 07/30/2011 21:09:50 MDT Print View

So I've decided to ditch the water filter and lighten up with Aquamira. In looking over the packaging there may be considerable room for concentrating the active ingredient and thus carrying far less. Part A is stabilized chlorine dioxide with only 2% being chlorine dioxide. Dupont offers various grades of stabilized ClO2 all the way up to 15% ClO2 solutions.

Stabilized Chlorine Dioxide

A seven fold increase in concentration would mean only 1 drop of part A would be required per liter rather than seven.

Part B is even easier, it is simply a 5% phosphoric acid solution. 35% preparations are possible and available through lab suppliers like VWR though not in that exact concentration.

It just strikes me as odd that AM doesn't offer a concentrated version which would only require 1 drop of each part per liter. While Aquamira is already extremely light, it could be rendered about 80% lighter simply by using more concentrated reagents...

Edited by ChemE on 07/30/2011 21:11:30 MDT.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Concentrated Aquamira on 07/30/2011 22:09:41 MDT Print View

Chris,
Do I understand this to mean that I could purchase a 5 gallon bucket of ClO2 - that very same thing found in Xenix/Klearwater - for trail use? (Currently all production stock of KlearWater is going to the military.)

Can mere mortals do this? Or do I need to be an "Official Entity"?

What is the "shelf life" of this stuff?
Are most "plastic" bottles (Nalgene type) impervious to ClO2?





[Lawson, are you following this?]

Edited by greg23 on 07/30/2011 22:14:08 MDT.

Bob Bankhead
(wandering_bob) - MLife

Locale: Oregon, USA
Re: Concentrated Aquamira on 07/30/2011 22:27:49 MDT Print View

35% phosphoric acid is a concentrated laboratory reagent and not something you would want to handle without gloves, a rubber apron, and a face shield, and even then you'd want to do it in a fume hood.

I seriously doubt the EPA and/or OSHA would ever allow it to be sold over the counter to the general public.

Chris Lucas
(ChemE) - F

Locale: SC
No Answers on 07/31/2011 08:10:41 MDT Print View

I haven't looked into things enough to know any of the answer to the questions posed thus far. If I'm not mistaken doing what I proposed on a commercial scale would be patent infringement since I understand that Auqamira's formula is still protected. I would initially suppose that the shelf life is the same as AM states it to be which is a few years when stored properly (away from heat and light). Regarding phosphoric acid even 5% is no cake walk and is already considered characteristically hazardous since it has a pH less than 2.0. I do not agree that the only safe way to handle 6 mL of 35% H3PO4 is in a fume hood but then again I have a healthy respect for strong mineral acids and also understand what steps to take upon exposure. Limited quantities of anything goes a long way to mitigate risk.

Henk Smees
(theflyingdutchman) - MLife

Locale: Spanish Mountains
AquaMira vs Micropur on 12/12/2011 11:15:24 MST Print View

Sorry to bump this old thread, but...... instead of opening a new one, I thought it would be better to keep questions related with AquaMira at the same spot.

My question is pretty simple; I’ll explain. A couple of years ago, I bought the 3oz. package of AquaMira, as well as a set of MiniDrip Bottles so I could use this for purifying water. Until then I had only been using Micropur (Forte or Classic) tablets from the Swiss company Katadyn (and I still do). I understand the AquaMira mixture is effective against protozoan cysts and viruses, and Micropur is not, but if I would only visit areas were none of these nasty little bastards exist, wouldn’t I be better of with the tablets rather than messing about with the two little bottles, the mixing cap, after mixing wait for 5 minutes to add to the water and then wait another 15 to 30 minutes before I can drink? I mean, I know I have to wait for 30 minutes with the Micropur tablets as well, but that’s just throwing in the tablet and wait. Ready. No more hassle.

Besides that: 1 whole blister of 25 tablets of Micropur weighs 2.5 gr. (less than 0.1 oz.). This will purify 25 liters of water. The 3 oz kit will purify a maximum of 30 gallons (113 liters) of water. Let’s say I need 3 liters/day; that makes up for a thru-hike of about 5 weeks. For the same amount of water, I’d need 113 tablets of Micropur. Now, although the Micropur tablets is a tad more expensive (100 Micropur Forte = € 16,95 and the 3oz kit of AquaMira was, in April 2008, $ 12,34), the weight difference is massive. 4 blisters of Micropur (100 tablets) will only weigh 0.35 oz. Now, being this a SUL forum, I’d imagine I could use this 2.65 oz difference (and I’m not even counting the separate MiniDrop Bottle, as suggested) far better for something else.

Once again, with Micropur I know I’m not covered against protozoa and viruses but is there something else I’m missing?

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
details on 12/12/2011 11:58:13 MST Print View

Try an all-forum search, b/c I know there was at least one thread this summer that went deeply into this topic.

Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Re: AquaMira vs Micropur on 12/12/2011 12:24:24 MST Print View

> Once again, with Micropur I know I’m not covered against protozoa and viruses but is there something else I’m missing?

They ARE effective against protozoa and viruses - it's just ClO2 like AM. Website says, "the only disinfection system effective against viruses, bacteria, cryptosporidium, and Giardia." "ONLY" isn't correct. Looks like either 20 or 30 per pack now.

Henk Smees
(theflyingdutchman) - MLife

Locale: Spanish Mountains
Answer to Spelt & Topshot on 12/12/2011 12:36:25 MST Print View

Hi Spelt,
Thanks for suggestion. Had seen a few threads regarding this issue, but there were so many I couldn't see the forest for the trees. I tried again now but I don't know how to sort the huge amount of posts by date.
Anyhow, I suppose you mean this particular one: Light water filtration/treatment options ? on 03/12/2011 14:55:50 - Link: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=44257&disable_pagination=1
With 4 pages it's quite long (goes on until July). I'm going home now, but I'll bookmark this page and have a good look at it tomorrow.

Hi Michael,
Well then there is even less reason to use AquaMira. I'll read the post Spelt suggested and then come back tomorrow.
Many thanks.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
A.M. on 12/16/2011 21:42:48 MST Print View

One way to use AM is to premix a days worth and keep in a small opaque dropper bottle, then keep in a dark place, like a pack or pocket. When getting water you add the necessary number of drops for a L or so, and just continue on. Drink 20 min later.

It doesnt necessarily have to be mixed immediately prior to use.


the following was posted in the BPL store when they sold Micropur:

Generally, MicroPUR tablets are effective substitutes for Aqua Mira and KlearWater when minimum weight is the single most important consideration for selecting your water treatment technology. We've found solid-form ClO2, such as MicroPUR tablets, to suffer some dissolution limitations in extremely low water temperatures (near 0 °C), and preliminary microscope studies indicate that some parts of the tablet can become adsorbed to soil particles in dirty waters, slowing dissolution rates. Consequently, it makes sense that liquid form chlorine dioxide solutions, such as Aqua Mira and KlearWater, may have a wider range of applicability than MicroPUR tablets.


Of course AM makes tablets too.

Edited by livingontheroad on 12/16/2011 21:47:53 MST.

Inaki Diaz de Etura
(inaki) - MLife

Locale: Iberia highlands
Micropur differs USA/EU on 12/17/2011 10:44:34 MST Print View

Beware the Micropur tablets' formulae is different for products sold in the US and Europe or, at least, my corner of Europe which is the same as Henk's. I've never found any CLO2 Micropur tabs locally. The Forte version is a different formula but it should be similarly efficient. It will surely kill viruses (that's the easy part) and bacteria, protozoa may need the longer contact time, or that's the usual consensus, I'm no expert on this.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Tabs vs. Drops on 12/17/2011 22:57:55 MST Print View

I'm not expert on this either, but I've done some reading on this and I can't see any reason to use the liquid Aquamira over tablets. I think some early tablets claimed to be not be effective against some stuff (crypto et al) but BPL'ers have said that was just the company covering their butt and it really is effective because it's still Cl02 like Aquamira.

I've never been too concerned about crypto, so I usually use AquaTabs ($10 for 50, 0.1oz for 20 pills) but if I was I imagine I'd just use Aquamira pills to keep things simple, light and easy.

Jon Holthaus
(t25hatch) - M
Update on 12/18/2011 08:00:26 MST Print View

As many have mentioned there is a wealth of information on this site and many others (although I do find this information on this site very credible). What many say is that it really comes down to knowing what's existent in your water source being bacteria or what have you, however when it comes down to information about AM product, the chief operations officer from AM replied to a users email with great detail.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=45839

On a personal note, what a stand up officer of AM to give such a thorough response to a great question. Being a business owner great people make a great company, and his response speaks volumes for AM which is why I will continue to use their product.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
AM on 12/18/2011 10:28:34 MST Print View

That C.O.O.'s email was really informative. Definitely a good read. It reinforced my prior belief that the tablets are just as good as the drops, and I really see no reason to carry the more complex drops at all.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
drops vs tabs on 12/18/2011 18:25:10 MST Print View

I have the impression that many carry the drops because they are faster than the tablets. Especially if do the pre-mix method.

It is also easy to customize the amount added based on water condition and clarity. Much more so than with tabs.

Edited by livingontheroad on 12/18/2011 18:28:31 MST.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: drops vs tabs on 12/18/2011 18:27:29 MST Print View

If you have pre-mixed solution, how long does it stay effective? I thought that Chlorine Dioxide was pretty unstable and that it degrades quickly. I don't know how quick that is.

--B.G.--

Chris W
(simplespirit) - MLife

Locale: .
Re: Re: drops vs tabs on 12/18/2011 18:38:15 MST Print View

24 hours with certain assumptions related to temp (above freezing) and light (stored in an opaque bottle)

Basically, if it's a gold/yellow color when it comes out of the bottle (same color as when you mix on the fly and wait the required 5 mins), it's still good.

Disclaimer - use premix at your own risk as the manufacturer doesn't recommend it. :-)

Edited by simplespirit on 12/18/2011 18:39:11 MST.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
time on 12/18/2011 18:38:17 MST Print View

Mike Clelland suggests in his book and video pre-mixing no more than 1 days worth, perhaps each morning if applicable. It should last a day without issue in a tightly sealed container away from UV light. Light will definitely degrade it. As long as the solution is still deep yellow, it should be good.

The little bitty 3ml dropper bottle will hold enough to treat about 1 gallon at the suggested treatment levels, so about 1 days supply for most conditions.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
AM on 12/19/2011 00:08:54 MST Print View

"I have the impression that many carry the drops because they are faster than the tablets. "

Read the C.O.O.'s email. The claimed treatment times are just due to the way the raw ingredients are rated by the government and they're really the same thing. Tablets save time and hassle by avoiding the hassle etc.