I have a Horse Thief, which is a top down only bag. I use the mummy shaped Primaloft insulated air core Big Agnes pad. It is a nice bag. I've slept in it at about 25 (in a tent with one other person), but used all the clothes - literally - in my backpack to stay warm. I think it is rated for 35, which is about right but you would need clothes on to stay warm at that kind of temperature.

I have mixed feelings about these top down bags. The advantage of being able to rotate with the bag is not insubstantial. I prefer sleeping on my side and even with the larger girth of the Big Agnes mummy bags, this is hard to do.

However, the Big Agnes Horse Thief is the bag I've used most often over the last four months of desert camping since I bought it.

Craig

I agree with another post that the Mountainsmith Wisp is a great bag for the money. Backcountrygear.com has them for $155. I was comfortable in the 30's. Only weighs 1 lb 8 oz in the long, couple ounces less in regular. Lot of bag for the money.

I tried the Sierra Designs Wicked Fast but because I turn on my sides a lot I was pulling up on the opposite side of the bag to where I would lose some insulation around my backside. The bag was a little too tight for me which didn't help.

I am the guy who posted the extensive critique of this bag on TLB. Let me first say that I am an experienced packer who generally sleeps very warm. I wore silk long underwear and a hat primarily to protect the bag under test conditions so that I could return the bag should it prove (as it did) to be grossly over rated. I slept in my Sarvis 1+ tent as well. So you can imagine my suprise that for most the night, when it did not get below 51 degrees, I was extremely uncomfortable and cold. This site did an extensive review of the Andromeda Strain bag by ID in which it was commented on that this bag had a overall loft of 1.75 inches and was rated to 40 degrees. the testers found that this rating was only effective if one wore essentially all of one's clothes in the pack to achieve comfort at 40 degrees. THe Pounder is approximately 1.25 inches in total loft if that and is sewn together in a series of 10 inch bats that are then sewn through to the inside of the bag. This makes for a very cold bag under most circumstances. I would rate it as a 55 degree bag at most. Marmot's marketing folks clearly had their eyes on our lightweight community when they wrote the copy for this bag. My experience discussing this bag with them after I got it and used it was more than frustrating, it was downright exercise in obsfuscation and weaseling.

So to those of you who listen to the experience of other members of this community take a warning about this bag. $169.00 is a lot to spend for a mistake.

I tried out a Nunatak Ghost quilt last month and met up with some of the limitations one can face 'at the edge' of a bag or quilt's rating. I was at the bottom of the Grand Canyon, where, even in March, one rarely encounters night-time temps below the upper thirties. Unfortunately, rarely doesn't mean never. The temp dipped to the mid-20's, probably 26 degrees F. I bundled up in long johns and a WM flight jacket, and was lying on a full-length, insulated pad. Despite these "extra's," and despite being a very warm sleeper, by 11 pm I was shivering non-stop. Part of the problem, perhaps a big part of it, was the Ghost quilt's internal baffling was insufficient to keep the down from migrating quickly and resolutely away from the top of the quilt. As a result, I would awaken to find that most of my torso was being insulated by two layers of Epic fabric, with nothing between them. That's not going to keep you very warm at 26 degrees. The upshot: I spent most of the night taking walks along the Colorado. Not a bad way to spend a sleepless night, if you have to spend one that way. But not very restful either.

David

I reviewed the Pod30 and I really like it. I have used lots of top bags and this is my favourite. It is well designed without cold spots and good for me (warm sleeper) at its temperature rating with light clothing.

I think the concept is too foreign to most folks. Especially if just starting out. Going backpacking - need a sleeping bag right? Once one has experiance and perhaps has slept with a traditional sleeping bag draped over you like a quilt you my become more open to the idea of a quilt. Or maybe you meet someone who uses a quilt. If one tries a well designed quilt I don't think many go back to a traditional bag. Just as with a traditional sleeping bag some are designed better than others to handle a wide variety of conditions. I'm sticking with my quilt. This will be my 4th year.

"I've decided that the nunatak ghost is probably the right option for me. I'm just wondering why there isn't more talk of quilts and top down bags?"

Nunatak is a custom maker where it helps to be an educated buyer. Weight can be a clue on what needs to be done. A quilt should only be a little lighter than a sleeping bag of the same rating. If a top quality 20º bag from a top maker like WM bag is 2 lbs in .85 fabric a similar rated quilt in .85 fabric should only be lighter by about the weight of the hood it doesn't have. What ever model Nunatak you get, get overfill if you want to be comfortable at the rated temperature. The baffle heights are optomized for more than the minimum fill. Also notice the same quilt is marketed with three different fabric weights of shell and the same down fill. With the heavier shell fabrics you need more down to get the same loft as with the lighter fabric weights.
You can buy it as is and try it then send it back for more fill later If you want to increase the warmth.

Last Sept. 2004 there was a light snow storm in the Sierras and at night the temperature dropped to 5F. My water bottle froze solid inside my tent! I was, however, warm enough to sleep all night in a Rock Wren which is rated to 35F and weighs 27oz. I did wear light long underwear. I like this bag because you can wear it like a jacket at night (arm holes and open bottom to pull up) and save weight by not bringing a jacket along.

Edited by CrankyRat on 04/28/2005 00:25:39 MDT.

Does anyone have experience with the Marmot Atom? This is suppose to be a one pound bag with a 40F rating.

http://forums.backpacker.com/thread.jspa?threadID=61438

I'm suprised I haven't heard much about the Rab QT. When I've used it with a bivy I've been very comfortable with temperatures in the sub freezing. You can't seem to beat it for the price. I've tried my custom Nunatak Ghost Blanket made for two with less success when used for two. Sometimes it is ok for one.

I'm a little surprised that there hasn't been a mention of quilts, either, especially since BPL has been involved in their design and marketing for years. For the temps above freezing (32F, 0C) that have been talked about, a quilt is a no-brainer, and probably works for you in the widest range of temperatures. They're far more versatile than most mummy bags, and you can extend their bottom range with clothing far more easily, or even use them to extend the range of a mummy bag, while carrying very little weight for the amount of warmth they offer.

There are a wide variety of options here, including already-built down quilts like the Arc Alpinist series from Nunatak and those from JacksRBetter (www.jacksrbetter.com). And then there's the down quilt kit from www.thru-hiker.com. My Arc Alpinist X (now simply a quantum-shelled option at Nunatak) in LONG was around 20 ounces, but provides a LOT more warmth than something like the Marmot Pounder, which seems more like a 50 degree bag to me <g>.

There are also synthetic alternatives, and quilts with at least a couple of insulation alternatives are available from Fanatic Fringe (www.fanaticfringe.com). Ray Jardine, who really popularized quilts in Beyond Backpacking, has synthetic quilt kits available on his website (www.rayjardine.com). My first quilt was a synthetic quilt built to his instructions in the book, and it was simple to sew up and was my main sleeping "bag" for several years (the arc alpinist has relegated it to shelf status for the time being). I think that Backpackinglight.com may be offering synthetic insulation quilts in the near future -- Ryan's hinted at their arrival for months.

It's also worth noting that some design options have done much to make a simple quilt more appealing. One, of course, is the addition of a foot pocket. Another is the use of straps and snaps to snug the quilt around either the pad and the user or around the user himself, for increased warmth and draft protection in colder weather. Yet another is the use of draft flaps (see the Jardine site) which add little weight, but do much to get rid of the occasional cool "wakeup call." And finally, the addition of an extremely lightweight but breathable bivy not only subs for a ground cloth, but offers protection from spray and condensation while eliminating drafts. Makes a perfect adjunct for a quilt used under a tarp.

Does anyone have experience with the EXPED range of waterproof, down filled sleeping bags. They claim to be a sleeping bag and bivy in one parcel. I'm looking at the Ibis rated down to 0 degress C weighing 1.3kg (2.86lbs) as an alternative to carring a sleeping bag and a bivy.

Where can this be purchased?

http://www.rab.uk.com/products_sleeping.html

If you're not familiar with them, Rab has a lot of good products.
For retailers, see
http://www.rab.uk.com/stockists.html

Others here can recommend specific retailers.

Edited by pilgrim on 05/06/2005 13:46:05 MDT.

Try the EMS Mountain Light 20. I'm not sure if it qualifies as UL (reg = 2lb, lng = 2lb. 2 oz.), but it really gives a lot of bang for the buck. I just picked one up last week, and I've already used it on a cool (40s), rainy night and loved it. It's rated to 20 degrees F, contains 725 fill down, a Pertex Microlight shell - all for 199.00

Has anyone had problems with cold spots with WM Caribou/Highlite, that uses box stitch construction? Many years ago I had a down sewthru bag that was cold given the amount of loft it had, and was wondering if WM has solved this problem. Thanks.

The WM Caribou has a combination of sewn-through and baffled construction. The east/west stiches across the body are sewn through. The north/south stitches are baffled or sewn through depending on location. The breadth of the bag is three panels wide, so there are four sets of north/south stitches: one at the zipper, two in the center, and one on the far side. The two in the center are baffled, the two on the far right and left are sewn through. Consequently you get the baffling on the top but not on the sides.

Last night was my first night out in the WM Caribou. Low temps in the early morning were in the 38*F-40*F range. I didn't notice any cold spots so their formula works. However, I did start to lose some toastiness in general and became somewhat cool as the temperature began to hit the limits of the bag. However, I was only wearing a long sleeved Ibex Merino shirt and Smartwool boxers and no socks. I added a thin fleece hat and WM Flight Vest and went back to being toasty.

Does anyone have any experience with this bag? If the temp. rating is accurate, it would seem to be a pretty impressive bag. 30F/-1C rating weighing 18 ounces for the regular. And it is not a top bag. The Rab QT and GG Sleeplight have about the same temp. rating and weigh 14 oz. and 16 oz. respectively... but they are top bags. Their website does not specify the baffle height, but the fill is 10 ounces of 800 down. It also has a half zip and a footbox vent and pretty generous girth at 62"/42". And the price is right!!!

Seems too good to be true. Then again, the temp. rating may be misleading. And if one accepts that WM bags have conservative ratings, this Sierra Bag may be about as warm as a HighLite which is a tad lighter and has 8 oz. of 850 down.

Edited by davidlewis on 07/23/2005 12:15:14 MDT.