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Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
New 2012 Hilleberg models on 07/17/2011 15:57:11 MDT Print View

Although Hilleberg is calling these extreme 3 season shelters, I suspect that they would be more than robust enough for most 4 season conditions:

http://www.hilleberg.se/news/hilleberg-tentmaker-introduces-3-season-tents-2012

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643)

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: New 2012 Hilleberg models on 07/17/2011 16:43:07 MDT Print View

The Anjan 2 looks really interesting. It could probably get down to near 3 lbs when pimped out.

I wonder if it shares the same dimensions as the Nallo, especially the vestibule.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
New 2012 Hilleberg models on 07/18/2011 13:01:26 MDT Print View

Some pics on the PDF file.

http://www.hilleberg.se/sites/default/files/usersmanuals/H12-NewsFlyer-Small-070611.pdf

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: New 2012 Hilleberg models on 07/18/2011 13:31:54 MDT Print View

Thanks for the alert. These look quite interesting. Wonder when we'll be able to actually buy them? I sent an email but haven't heard back yet (but know I will soon as they're very good about answering email).

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: New 2012 Hilleberg models on 07/18/2011 19:26:49 MDT Print View

Shannon at Hilleberg says the Anjan and Rogen will be available next year, hopefully by April.

Gives me something to look forward to! I mean, besides still breathing, that is....

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
New 2012 Hilleberg models on 07/18/2011 19:49:45 MDT Print View

Thanks Doug. The Anjan 3 @ a minimum weight of 3.1 lbs for a 4 season shelter is pretty impressive (for 2). I know Hilleberg calls them 3 season but....their 4th season description is when Hell freezes over....

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: New 2012 Hilleberg models on 08/07/2011 09:44:43 MDT Print View

Pricing is out and Hilleberg is drunk:

Hilleberg Rogen: MSRP $790

Hilleberg Anjan 2: MSRP $570.

As much as the 4 season versions that they are based on.

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com) - M

Locale: no. california
Pricing is out and Hilleberg is drunk: Not on 08/07/2011 13:12:02 MDT Print View

no, they are not.
not at all.

in the last 6 months your dollar has lost 22.9% of it's value.
when i initially set the opening price headnets in early july at 1/100 an ounce of gold, they were $15 each (and still are).
when this month ends, i will almost certainly look and see that gold has risen (means dollar has fallen) to a situation where it justifies a 10%+ cost increase to stay at the same value point.
it's simply the way the world works. we are entering a time of double digit (at least) inflation, there's no need to insist Hilleberg to be on the downward end of it.
they make the worlds best tents, which have been too cheap for years, perhaps they are not looking to take a hit just to pretend that the economic situation is stable. because it's not.

sorry, it's a big nasty world out there.
and just like those awful tea-partyr's have been warning you ... it's coming directly into your living room.
it's just almost exactly like Glen Beck (annoying as he is) .... was right.

would i buy another Hilleberg as the new prices, sure, i bought one at the last expensive price, and it was cheap for what i got.
the tents are just as good, only our overprinted money is increasingly useless.

peter v.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Re: New 2012 Hilleberg models on 08/07/2011 13:15:29 MDT Print View

Drunk and proud

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Pricing is out and Hilleberg is drunk: Not on 08/07/2011 13:51:03 MDT Print View

Peter,

the pricing of these shelters are right on top of their 4 season expedition models. In some cases, more expensive. Yet they have fewer features, are not as robust, use weaker materials, etc. They are completely overpriced.

I spent several years as a foreign exchange derivative trader. It is very inexpensive to hedge against a falling US dollar to lock in the value of their manufacture. I don't 'buy' the explanation of a falling USD. Mitigation is quite easy from a commercial perspective.

Why one would buy either over a Scarp 1 or 2 is beyond me given now their real (versus perceived) robustness is no greater. You could actually buy a Scarp 1 and 2 for the price of the Rogen.

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com) - M

Locale: no. california
Ok, so now David has peter thinking ... on 08/07/2011 17:02:36 MDT Print View

"the pricing of these shelters are right on top of their 4 season expedition models. In some cases, more expensive. "
yes, i see that.
to that end i went immediately and looked at their Akto model, which i currently own and is my second HB tent.
it lists, today, right now, at $430, i think that's the very same 430 bucks it was in 2007 when i bought it. or 395 something .. it's essentially still the same.
if i am correct, then the Akto and the other models you refer too have been at the same dollar point for at least 4 yearss. far to long in light of the situation we are living in.
my logic here is that , yes, you are correct in your statement that the new tents are priced above the old tents, but i would contend that the old ones need a boost too, which brings... in the HB world . things back into galactic alignment.

" It is very inexpensive to hedge against a falling US dollar to lock in the value of their manufacture."

over time ??? into the future ?
let us know how.

"Mitigation is quite easy from a commercial perspective. "

tell us how !
KanBan, continuous material flow, JIT, lean manufacturing, and now lately Quick Response Manufacturing (QRM) ???
how many hoops does the productive sector need to jump thru to keep costs down ? because folks, i am running out of hoops.
bottom line at the end of the day, the dollar is ever smaller.
and so you'll know, i don't like it either. a LOT i don't like it.

"Why one would buy either over a Scarp 1 or 2 is beyond me given now their real (versus perceived) robustness is no greater."

AHHH .. OK, now we are into something concrete... marketing !

from my perspective, i would buy that little new one, the Rogan for it's perceived robustness over a Scarp-1 if Petra opined to me that it was a tough as an Akto.
because until i take my lady up there (and i live about 90 minutes from Tarptent central in Nevada City) and visit Henry, i trust my experience more than scarp users on forum.
i am lusting after a Moment tent, but i don't suspect i would not care to roll the dice on an arctic romp with based on casual forum information.

Hilleberg markets just like this. i buy, over an over, Fluke electronic meters. 'bout 300 bucks each, it's real money (currently have at least 3) you can go to your local store and buy a meter with better specs for less money. no problem. go for it.
every time my Fluke falls off a ladder, it still works, it gets cheaper.
peter spends a lot of time on ladders fixing factories. i can not afford to buy a meter each time i drop one.
i look no further than the John L. Fluke corp for my electronic meter needs.
i look to Toyota for a high quality vehicle.
i buy apple computers. and ... my (awesome) macbook pro 17" was 1800, i can not replace it now for less than 2400. so i know that inflation is real.

about all this, peter could well be wrong. it has happened before.

but i am interested in holding the line using that "commercial mitigation" thing. David, my normal trade is of maintaining factories, and we are in the vise from every conceivable frikk'n angle. journeyman industrial maintainers are not stupid people. we may not spell so hot, but dumb .. we ain't. and it is by each and every day harder and harder to cope with the ever increasing costs of components, the over stringent regulations on disposal, the labor regulations that mandate we allow for 5 prayer breaks a day, costs of workers compensation, of sustained job guarantees thru pregnancy (and beyond), of racial profiling, of .. it goes on and on. and all to be done ... " somehow ", at the same cost. in shrinking dollars.
mitigate that for us, would ya ?
because we need it .. bad.

cheers,
peter v.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
New 2012 Hilleberg models on 08/07/2011 17:24:37 MDT Print View

: )

If you know what price / cost you need for as long as you need it, you create a hedging program with derivatives - specifically futures and in this case foreign exchange futures. It involves transacting along the forward 'curve,' at times rolling over contracts as required but generally matching the 'unwinding' of these futures contracts to match (the best that you can) the unit cost of what you are manufacturing. OTC is possible but more expensive, although it will allow more customization of the hedge. If the dollar that you transact in causes the value of your manufactured good to become more expensive (in effect you are losing money on a unit cost basis assuming you don't pass on all of the cost to the end user as Hilleberg may be doing here), by transacting in an opposing manner with the derivatives creates a financial gain on the derivative side. The net gain or loss is null (or close to it) as the company achieves the budgeted unit price for their physical goods. There is a cost to this 'insurance' but it is not as expensive as one may think.

This is a VERY high level approach and realize that I know nothing of your company, what they produce, and all of the risks they may face. My consulting days are over.....

Ben Crocker
(alexdrewreed) - M

Locale: Kentucky
Tea baggers on 08/07/2011 17:33:14 MDT Print View

Hate it when a talk about gear turns into a tea party essay. How do you make that transition? It's just bad manners.

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: New 2012 Hilleberg models on 08/07/2011 18:38:43 MDT Print View

David,

Thanks for the link. Looks like good new products for a niche. I bet those tents will do well.

Their quality is superb. For that, you pay a premium.

Note: I own a Kaitum 2 GT.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
New 2012 Hilleberg models on 08/07/2011 19:06:20 MDT Print View

"Hate it when a talk about gear turns into a tea party essay. How do you make that transition? It's just bad manners"

+1

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Tea baggers on 08/07/2011 20:07:01 MDT Print View

Uhmmm....my post was simply to show how a financial hedge works. Apologize if I took the thread off track that I started.....

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com) - M

Locale: no. california
it was probably v. on 08/07/2011 21:13:59 MDT Print View

i suspect that particular comment was directed at peter, as David is much smoother in his ways. sometimes when people mistake an afternoon bottle of wine for bad manners, and make what should have perhaps been a PM out of it, then that's what you end up with.
i'll probably never do it again.

i like their new solo tent.
do i like it as much a$ a new Alpaka raft ? i dun'no yet.
wonder how much the weight is fantasy though.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: it was probably v. on 08/07/2011 21:47:55 MDT Print View

Darn it Peter, who the heck wants a tea party rant anyway! Where were the crumpets, for crying out loud! A tea and crumpet party rant, now you're talking..... If it was good enough for the Mad Hatter and Alice, it's good enough for me!

And never have an afternoon bottle of wine again? Pishaw mate, you will if we ever go backpacking again......or maybe it'll be scotch instead....

Kronos Master of Fate
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: it was probably v. on 08/07/2011 22:06:03 MDT Print View

I do like how Peter talks about himself in third person. Shows character.

Hilleberg makes some great tents.

Everything just seems more expensive these days as we have more and more things trying to get in our wallets.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: it was probably v. on 08/07/2011 22:20:59 MDT Print View

"Everything just seems more expensive these days as we have more and more things trying to get in our wallets."

You should see the Mini Cooper that crawled into mine......

Edited by idester on 08/07/2011 22:22:07 MDT.