Are you "packing" while you are packing?
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Evan McCarthy
(evanrussia) - MLife

Locale: Northern Europe
Guns on 07/15/2011 08:53:16 MDT Print View

The pack while packing debate has come up a few times in backpacking groups, usually people who want the gun for human deterrent, particularly while hiking solo. I always ended up pointing out exactly what Nick said: to use a gun effectively one needs not only to have the skills to wield it correctly but also the mental quickness and fortitude to know exactly the right situation in which to fire it -- and then to do so without hesitation. There are very, very few people who can pull the latter off without something very wrong potentially happening.

Edited by evanrussia on 07/15/2011 11:09:58 MDT.

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: Women and Guns on 07/15/2011 10:30:47 MDT Print View

Jeebuz...I think my eyes are twitching.

Oh please. Don't be so condescending!

If you really want to give the right advice, then tell anyone who is interested to go take training. Nothing more than that is needed. Proper training - a simple answer.

This doesn't matter if it is a woman or man.

Don't tell someone that they won't have the fortitude and to give up their ideas. Their ideas are not crazy or halfbaked, they already understand that no one, and no one, is going to protect a person like themselves.

I know plenty of women who carry - the only issue we face as women is that if petite it can be harder to shoot certain firearms, due to hand strength. I have no issue shooting rifles for example but due to petite hands I cannot rack certain handguns - although I can still shoot them if needed. That is why I prefer a smaller 45 (Kimber) or full size 9 (Springfield XD) and not a full size 45. Women often shoot better than men even so there you go.

And in the PNW there is excellent schooling out there, taught by some of the best - and it is affordable. And there are even all women classes to take.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Women and Guns on 07/15/2011 10:47:33 MDT Print View

Evan, why is your post titled "Women and Guns"? I've been avoiding this thread, but your title + post is a ridiculous insinuation, for all the reasons Sarah pointed out. If a woman carries a gun, she's capable of being as competent--or incompetent--with it as a man.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Women and Guns on 07/15/2011 10:52:51 MDT Print View

"There are very, very few people who can pull the latter off without something very wrong potentially happening."

Regardless of post title, the above seems pretty gender neutral to me. These threads often 'go south' because people decide to take umbrage for the most, in my opinion, silliest of reasons.

Besides, I know Evan, and he'd help out an able bodied man as quickly as he'd help out a poor, defenseless woman. I'm sure of it....

Evan McCarthy
(evanrussia) - MLife

Locale: Northern Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Women and Guns on 07/15/2011 10:57:28 MDT Print View

Sorry! I actually didn't intend a gender slant to the main point, despite the post title. It was more parenthetical, since more women brought this up on my outings, out of concern for safety when hiking solo.

alan barber
(azbarber) - F

Locale: SE
wimmenz and gunz on 07/15/2011 11:02:54 MDT Print View

Training is important. Attitude is important. Taking resposibilty for your own safety is the most important. It doesn't matter if you are underwater while kayaking, hypothermic while hiking, or being assaulted by thugs at a gas station. If you've made the decision to not give in, to fight for your life even if the odds don't look good... that's the most important thing. Training and equipment are only tools that can make it easier.

It doesn't make any difference if you're a man or a woman. In fact, being a woman is sometimes an advantage to sexist criminals who think they will be an easy target. Being a large, muscular man might deter some thieves, but once they're committed, they are more likely to make sure you don't have a chance to react.

And yes, women are typically better shots. My daughter is a much better shot than I am. And yes, its a blow to my ego, but I'm proud of her at the same time. ;)

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
tone! on 07/15/2011 11:14:20 MDT Print View

I don't consider sexism to be a silly reason, but yes, the post seemed more neutral and tone is hard to read online. Sorry if I misread you, Evan.

James Neal
(Laien) - F

Locale: Ozarks
Weapons on 07/15/2011 11:31:40 MDT Print View

I assure you that I have the training, skill, mental quickness and fortitude to defend myself as do all those that I travel with. Most of us have done so in real life situations many times.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Weapons on 07/15/2011 11:41:36 MDT Print View

Great. Now we're talking- between the lines, of course- about who's actually got the cojones to shoot people and who actually has. What a beautiful day.

This topic always brings out the best in people, doesn't it?

1

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Weapons on 07/15/2011 11:44:11 MDT Print View

Did you Say "Make My Day"?!

Oh... "What a Beautiful Day".

Edited by greg23 on 07/15/2011 11:45:08 MDT.

James Neal
(Laien) - F

Locale: Ozarks
Re: Re: Weapons on 07/15/2011 11:48:25 MDT Print View

Craig, I was a soldier for over 20 years. Your welcome for the ability to voice your opinion.

Evan McCarthy
(evanrussia) - MLife

Locale: Northern Europe
Trust on 07/15/2011 11:50:40 MDT Print View

I actually completely trust former (or current) soldiers, marines, law enforcement personnel, and anyone with the training and/or life experience with weapons. I'm just not sure that everyone who is actually packing falls into one of these categories.

(And a big thanks to all who risk themselves for the rest of the community in their daily lives. I recently spent 18 months on a base in Iraq as the State Department political officer and was wowed by what our soldiers and marines do every day -- year in and year out.)

Edited by evanrussia on 07/15/2011 12:42:34 MDT.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Weapons on 07/15/2011 11:55:11 MDT Print View

"Craig, I was a soldier for over 20 years. Your welcome for the ability to voice your opinion."

My gosh. I've been a taxpayer for more than 40 years. You're welcome for the retirement funding.

James Neal
(Laien) - F

Locale: Ozarks
Taxes on 07/15/2011 12:02:03 MDT Print View

Thank you. I pay taxes too. I'm not retired. I still work a full time job as a RN.

By the way, I earned that retirement. I'm not standing in the welfare line. Very insulting remark, sir.

And I see that you work for the government yourself as a civi so that would make you a hypocrite as well as some other choice words I can think of.

Edited by Laien on 07/15/2011 12:25:21 MDT.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Taxes on 07/15/2011 12:28:23 MDT Print View

Edit:

Post #3: I have feeling this is gonna to be fun."
Post #4: No, It gets ugly every time."

Edited by greg23 on 07/15/2011 12:31:15 MDT.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Taxes on 07/15/2011 12:47:05 MDT Print View

You can be as insulted as you like, but I fail to see my hypocrisy. Never even implied you didn't earn the retirement. Don't see how my work for DoD negates my earlier post. In fact, not that you'd want to understand it, but it was your post to Craig that was a bit insulting.

You see, James, as much as it may like to think so, the military is not some entity all to itself. The military does much of the 'hard lifting' as it were, without a doubt. But it couldn't exist without the industrial/commercial base which supplies its food, fuel, weapons, medical supplies, etc. It couldn't exist very easily without the broad support of the many 'back home.' It couldn't exist without the scientists and researchers who try to ensure it has the best equipment/weapons to reduce battlefield injuries, and the best medical practices available to ensure those who are injured live. It couldn't even exist without the teachers, like Craig, who try to ensure that the population is educated, which is vitally important for it to understand the military's purpose and not misuse it.

Because I understand and appreciate that symbiotic relationship doesn't make me hypocritical, it simply makes me someone who, it seems, thinks a bit differently than you. We all (well, most of us) contribute to the defense of this nation. Some do it in uniform, some don't. It's simply hubris to believe otherwise.

Having served myself, I have great respect for those who have, and those who do (which includes a number of family members, some who lost their lives). I just don't puff up my chest and trot out that old semi-canard about how everyone else should thank me for their 'freedom.'

Edited by idester on 07/15/2011 12:50:52 MDT.

James Neal
(Laien) - F

Locale: Ozarks
LOL on 07/15/2011 12:52:02 MDT Print View

Yes, you are above it all aren't you? I've made my point and I'm not going to argue it with you. You're a hypocrite.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: LOL on 07/15/2011 12:53:53 MDT Print View

This post was childish and unnecessary, and so I've deleted it.

My apologies to James.

Edited by idester on 07/15/2011 13:20:12 MDT.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: LOL (Lot of Losers) on 07/15/2011 15:37:21 MDT Print View

This is what happens every time when "gun in the backcountry" is brought up. People get emotional and some start fighting like babies.

My two cents: shame on OP for even bringing up such an idiotic thread, "I am wondering what the consensus is on carrying a firearm while backpacking?...".

What next? Gee, I wonder what's the consensus on making ours a Christian country?

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
question on 07/15/2011 15:43:05 MDT Print View

its a valid question .. for most of history frontiersmen and explorers have carried firearms ...

now we "know" better or we think we do ...

however someone who has never been in the great outdoors may not know that the crazed rampaging bears you see in hollywood movies may not be reflected in real life ... or they may according to predatory bear news flashes

there are also 2 legged predators lurking about ... arent national parks grow ups these days anyways???