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First gearlist post!! JMT late august, please shred
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Kevin Robin
(happakidd)

Locale: Northern California
First gearlist post!! JMT late august, please shred on 07/12/2011 14:28:08 MDT Print View

hey all, first gear list post. Doing JMT in late august with the girlfriend. We will be resupplying once at MTR. I will be carrying most of the group gear, so tent, stove, first aid, repair kit are all for 2 people. A few notes on the items in the list:

- Jetboil - since its two people with 7 days between resupplies (14 person days) and we boil lots of water it will likely be about the same weight as my alcohol stove + fuel, with way more convenience (ok, and i'm pretty attached to the boat anchor).

- Sleeping bag - i have a thread posted with questions about this, i can shake the down to the top for 3-3.5" of loft, even though its a 45 degree bag, so i may try this in combination with clothes, any input on this is appreciated.

- Headnet - picking one up today, its not on the list.

-Navigation - GPS for girlfriend comfort, i'm adding a watch with barometer and compass that i'd like to use for navigation; goal is to not use GPS so that we can leave at home on future trips.

Please shred away:

http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=3517

Michael Levine
(Trout) - F

Locale: Long Beach
comments on 07/12/2011 16:52:39 MDT Print View

I'm a warm sleeper doing the JMT in early August too. I've been convinced I need a 30 degree quilt. This has been through BPL members and trip reports of nights down in the lower 20 degree range (at high altitude, which can somewhat be avoided obviously). Because of this I ditched my 40 deg bag for a 30 quilt. I can't tell you how well it worked because I haven't gone yet, but your 45 makes me skeptical. I know we can wear clothes to help with the temp limits but possibly 23 degrees (guessing at a 22degree night) would be a lot for clothes and down shifting to help, or at least that's my worry for you.

Dang what pants are those? 4oz seems very light compared to my 7oz REI brand. I'd be curious as I'm looking to cut my own weight.

You don't need 3 gatoraide bottles if we're getting picky. I have a 2L platypus I'm taking for storage sakes, and one gator bottle. The 2L is lighter than 1 gator bottle, so you'd get to shave off some ounces that route. I've also heard good things about http://www.rumrunnerflasks.com/flasks.aspx.

Why don't you swap the steripen for some aquamira? That way you can ditch the batteries, and the device, and get down to around 2oz (or lighter).

stakes - can go with Ti to save a big of weight their, but that's a small amount, admittedly.

Do you NEED a groundsheet?

That's a lot of DEET. Re-pack in dropper bottles.

bring a backup fire source. another mini-bic?

that's a ton of duct tape. maybe but to 3 feet? 1 foot?

Why 2 bandanas?

Ship yourself maps for the second half of the route instead of carrying them.

You can cut about 2oz by using a foil lid for your pot vs the heavy jetboil one. I speak from experience there

Did you go with that Kavu hat? How is it? I totally wanted one and just worried it wouldn't provide the coverage of an OR sun runner. My face just got burnt (cheeks, nose, lips) by not using sunscreen on a 20 miler, so there's that....

You know you bought a heavier option for shelter than a 7oz poncho tarp and a 6oz bivy, personal choice.

I personally didn't find a trash compactor bag to be very puncture proof and so I went with one specially made for the purpose, but I saw in Mike C's book that the cartoon had a 2-ply, which I can't find where I am for whatever reason.

I went with the SMD swift and now that I don't have the load lifters I feel I might regret that. Good choice!

Your list looks good though, honestly. Have fun!

Edited by Trout on 07/12/2011 17:03:14 MDT.

Mike Clelland
(mikeclelland) - MLife

Locale: The Tetons (via Idaho)
jet boil vs alcohol on 07/12/2011 17:28:43 MDT Print View

Compare to the weight of the Jet-Boil:
______________________________________

.075 liters of fuel per person per day (cool weather calculation)

.075 x 7 days = .525 liters of fuel

.525 x 2 people = 1.05 liters

1.05 liters weights 28.8 ounces (a little over a liter of fuel, I would just round down)

One liter fuel bottle weights 1.5 oz

tiny pot weighs 3 oz

wind screen weighs 0.3 oz

cat food can weighs 0.2 oz

pot grabber weighs 1 oz

______________________________________

TOTALS:
=====

31.8 ounces for full cook gear (including fuel)

weight of fuel (consumable) 28.8 ounces

6 ounces of all NON-fuel cook kit items
______________________________________

You list the Jet-Boil as 15.8 ounces, but I'm not exactly sure what that means. Is that WITHOUT fuel? How much is your fuel weight? How does this compare?

Edited by mikeclelland on 07/12/2011 17:30:04 MDT.

Kevin Robin
(happakidd)

Locale: Northern California
thanks for the comments!! on 07/12/2011 17:54:14 MDT Print View

"I'm a warm sleeper doing the JMT in early August too. I've been convinced I need a 30 degree quilt. This has been through BPL members and trip reports of nights down in the lower 20 degree range (at high altitude, which can somewhat be avoided obviously). Because of this I ditched my 40 deg bag for a 30 quilt. I can't tell you how well it worked because I haven't gone yet, but your 45 makes me skeptical. I know we can wear clothes to help with the temp limits but possibly 23 degrees (guessing at a 22degree night) would be a lot for clothes and down shifting to help, or at least that's my worry for you."

Yeah, kinda worried about that, thats 2 votes for going with a warmer bag (including mine, although still unrealistically hopeful i can skimp on the bag)

"Dang what pants are those? 4oz seems very light compared to my 7oz REI brand. I'd be curious as I'm looking to cut my own weight."

The are marmot midweight baselayers, i'm a small guy, they are size small and fit me like a glove, nice and toasty, linky: http://marmot.com/products/midweight_bottom not sure how they compare to other brands of base layers for warmth though.

"You don't need 3 gatoraide bottles if we're getting picky. I have a 2L platypus I'm taking for storage sakes, and one gator bottle. The 2L is lighter than 1 gator bottle, so you'd get to shave off some ounces that route. I've also heard good things about http://www.rumrunnerflasks.com/flasks.aspx."

good call on the platy, was considering going that route, although for the price, 2 gatoraide bottles may be the ticket.

"Why don't you swap the steripen for some aquamira? That way you can ditch the batteries, and the device, and get down to around 2oz (or lighter)"

tasty instant water, i'll admit its a luxury item, but kinda psyched on no chems for the moment, and don't trust my judgement to go without treatment yet.

"stakes - can go with Ti to save a big of weight their, but that's a small amount, admittedly."

so tempted, titanium is awesome, i may be able to trade the snow stake for something lighter but the girlfriend is already freaking out at not having a dedicated trowel.

"Do you NEED a groundsheet?"

floor less shelter, probably good to keep gear off of possibly damp ground, and without it girlfriend would probably boycott the floor less shelter

"That's a lot of DEET. Re-pack in dropper bottles."

Yes @ lots of deet, any recommendations on type of bottle to repackage into? deet eats plastic, just afraid it wont like the dropper bottle i was going to transfer it into.

"bring a backup fire source. another mini-bic?"

Jetboil is newer version with reliable auto-start (mine has seen tons of use, doesn't like working above 10k feet but good other than that), bic is the backup, and also bringing 4 stormproof matches

"that's a ton of duct tape. maybe but to 3 feet? 1 foot?"

hmm, true, probably way excessive, i packed more duct tape so I could take a sports wrap out of my kit, I have a ankle rolling habit and wanted to make sure i have something to support it if i have issues, I should check to see how much would be needed to wrap an ankle, probably way less than 6ft!!

"Why 2 bandanas?"

Every time i take one, its always wet, murpheys law maybe? Figured a second may remedy this. *sigh*. This is why i need the voice of reason... nixed.

"Ship yourself maps for the second half of the route instead of carrying them."

sweet, keep forgetting i can do that.

You can cut about 2oz by using a foil lid for your pot vs the heavy jetboil one. I speak from experience there

"Did you go with that Kavu hat? How is it? I totally wanted one and just worried it wouldn't provide the coverage of an OR sun runner. My face just got burnt (cheeks, nose, lips) by not using sunscreen on a 20 miler, so there's that...."

Nope, its a straw one, i'm hunting for a new hat, i wore it at the lost coast last weekend and almost lost it in the wind too many times, and it hits my pack when i look up. Girlfriend thinks its hilarious that I have trouble making eye contact.... something about being a good servant.... Great for sun though, no sunscreen, was in the sun all day for 3 days and I don't think i even got more tan. Also, thinking of trying the kavu one or myoging one. The flexibility may allow it to be worn with a pack and put in the pack in heavy wind.

"I personally didn't find a trash compactor bag to be very puncture proof and so I went with one specially made for the purpose, but I saw in Mike C's book that the cartoon had a 2-ply, which I can't find where I am for whatever reason."

Packed one out last weekend and abused the hell out of it, seemed to work for me; i guess i should leak test it.....

"I went with the SMD swift and now that I don't have the load lifters I feel I might regret that. Good choice!"

Starlite is so big though, its cinched all the way down with no gear in stuff sacks and still has tons of room, i'm actually going to shed my heavy winter pack because this thing is so huge. load lifters are nice, but with the pack volume down so low, you can get most of the adjustability out of just the shoulder straps.

Evan McCarthy
(evanrussia) - MLife

Locale: Northern Europe
Jetboil vs. Alcohol on 07/12/2011 18:06:11 MDT Print View

I've been using alcohol and Esbit with a small Caldera cone system and titanium mug/pot for a couple years.

But I splurged on a whim last week and ordered a Jetboil Titanium sol for the heck of it. I received it in the mail, took it out of the package and weighed it in one hand, shook my head in dismay, put it back in its packaging, packed it back up, and immediately sent it back the next day.

Alas, even in its lightest form, the Jetboil just seemed too darned heavy.

Greg F
(GregF) - F

Locale: Canadian Rockies
JetBoil V alcohol on 07/12/2011 18:57:42 MDT Print View

A jetboil you get about 14 500ml boils out of per 115g fuel canister (this is with the older model) The newer ones claim 12L but I think that is suspect.

So for 1L/day/person for 7 days you need 14 liters of water so a 8ozs of fuel plus the container container which weighs 4 oz for a total of 12 oz.

15.8 Stove
12 Fuel

Total 28 oz

So you save 3.3 ozs on the first day, 1 ozs on the second day, -2 for the third and then you start carrying more weight but by then you have eaten 4.5 lbs worth of food so you probably aren't that concerned about pack weight. The last day before resupply you have 1lb extra in your pack.

And for carrying that extra weight late in the trip your reward is quickly cooked water (2:45). It seems that 7 days is the magic length of trip where Canisters are just as weight efficient as alcohol in terms of peak pack weight. In ounce days though alcohol still has a slight edge.

Edited by GregF on 07/12/2011 19:04:34 MDT.

Mike Clelland
(mikeclelland) - MLife

Locale: The Tetons (via Idaho)
feedback / insights on 07/12/2011 19:03:17 MDT Print View

A - Nix the ground sheet, You'll be fine without it. Take whatever shelter is lightest.

B - The bag I recommend for waterproofing is a HEFTY Trash COMPACTOR bag, available at any grocery store. I don't know how many "ply" it is, but they'll last YEARS!

C - Nix the steri-pen (and the extra batteries) the water along the JMT is so clean to begin with! Use AQUAMIRA repackaged with a tiny MIX bottle. The taste is nonexistent if used in low dosages.

D - Take ONE bandana, and cut it down! You'll be at high elevations in the Sierras, stuff dries fast.

E - The option of Alcohol vs Jet boil? (I like Evan's comment above) - Also, the efficiency of a caldera cone will save a LOT in fuel weight.

Kevin Robin
(happakidd)

Locale: Northern California
jetboil on 07/12/2011 19:43:30 MDT Print View

"TOTALS:
=====

31.8 ounces for full cook gear (including fuel)

weight of fuel (consumable) 28.8 ounces

6 ounces of all NON-fuel cook kit items
______________________________________

You list the Jet-Boil as 15.8 ounces, but I'm not exactly sure what that means. Is that WITHOUT fuel? How much is your fuel weight? How does this compare?"

Thanks for calling me out on this Mike :) Someone needs to do it.

15.8oz is the everything in the box for the jetboil; the pot, lid, extra cup, burner, and even the little pot stabilizer thingie,

8oz for the small can of gas. Usually lasts us 3 weekend trips; darn thing is pretty efficient.

Total is 23.8oz

I have a 700ml ti pot on its way, i'll try it out with the alky stove and see how well it works for me; for gas needs we usually do hot breakfast and dinner, with hot tea or coffee with breakfast and dinner, and before bed. i realize this could be less but i love my coffee/tea!!!

Kevin Robin
(happakidd)

Locale: Northern California
thanks greg on 07/12/2011 19:47:47 MDT Print View

looks like you have better info and a more accurate weight for gas can, i just pulled it off of one of my old spreadsheets, probably a half used canister i had around the house. I should look into this but its so convenient that i don't typically question it. Looks like it may not be too bad to carry it, slight weight penalty for quick hot water isn't the end of the world i suppose.

Kevin Robin
(happakidd)

Locale: Northern California
thanks!! will update some of the gear list tonight on 07/12/2011 19:55:47 MDT Print View

Thanks for the commentary so far!!

-On nixing groundsheet - girlfriend has already expressed concern about the floor-less shelter, groundsheet required.

-Trash compactor bag is hefty brand, came in a 4 pack from target, probably good to check it for holes anyways, somehow i carried half a liter of sand in it from our last trip to the beach, if its good with that kind of abuse its probably fine when i'm not trying to take the beach home with me.

-I'll have to try out the aquamira and see how it works out, I haven't used it yet but have been interested after seeing all the positive reviews on here.

-On esbit - I've been curious, i'll have to give them a go on one of our upcoming trips.

-Bandana - yeah. nixing second, will trim or may switch to one of my other pack towel like thingies, I have one that was great on some past trips and is lighter than a bandana but i can't find it. I forgot i had it until now.

-Caldera cone - I MYOG'd my windscreen from some aluminum dryer duct pipe, weighs nothing and seems to work well, are the caldera cone setups even better? have considered buying a commercially available option but have been holding off because free is an awesome price.

Edited by happakidd on 07/12/2011 19:58:21 MDT.

Mike Clelland
(mikeclelland) - MLife

Locale: The Tetons (via Idaho)
aqua-mira on 07/12/2011 20:47:06 MDT Print View

Kevin -

-Caldera cone - if you have a nice homemade wind screen, USE IT! The caldera cone is nice, but homemade gear is dear to my heart.

And --- I did an AquaMira tip in my book, It's a system that is far superior to the directions on the store boutght bottles. I'll re-post here if you don't have the book.

-----------------------------


106@ Revising how AQUA-MIRA is used

My preferred system for treating suspect water is Aqua-Mira. This is a chlorine dioxide chemical treatment that leaves very little noticeable taste in the water. It has a proven track record over the years, and it has a long shelf life. And for reasons I don’t understand, nowhere on the bottles does it say it makes questionable water safe to drink. It is a two bottle system of very stable A & B liquids, when mixed it creates a dependable solution for water-bourne pathogens.

I advocate a system that does not quite match the written directions on the bottle. Here’s what I do for myself:

~ I’ll re-package the A & B into two smaller bottles, I’ll use a sharpie to clearly label each of these tiny bottles.

~ The system requires a third bottle that gets labeled MIX. I’ll use the smallest (black or opaque) bottle I can for this purpose. The reason for the smallest bottle is because I don’t want to store this mix for too long, I want to use it up well before it has a chance to loose it’s effectiveness.

~ Before hiking in the morning, I’ll pre-mix an equal amount of A and B liquid into the tiny MIX bottle. The tiny bottle I use will only hold about 40 drops total, so I use 20 of A and 20 of B.

~ I usually carry this pre-mix in my pocket and use it to treat my water each time I re-fill my bottle during the day. All my team-mates use my drops too. No need to stop and wait, just dip, drop and go.

~ I will air on the side of caution and add a little more time to the suggested amount in the instructions. I’ll hike with my treated water for at least 20 minutes before I take my first sip.

~ I carefully monitor the color of the liquid that comes out of the bottle marked “MIX” to make sure it has a bright yellow tone. If the drops come out clear, the mix has lost it’s effectiveness and I squeeze it all out and start over.

~ The effectiveness of the Pre-Mix is severely compromised by temperature, sunlight and time. Temperature is hard to control if you are in a hot environment. Sunlight is easier, simply keep the vessel inside your pack (or pocket) and don’t use a clear plastic bottle.

___________________________________________________

How many drops?

The instructions say to use 7 drops each of A and B for 1-liter of water. That means - if you wanna follow the instructions exactly, you’ll need a total of 14 drops of the mix to treat 1-liter of water. Before we proceed further, those instructions were written by lawyers! So, let’s factor that into the equations.

For me, I try and temper those instructions with a little judgment. I’ll use as little as I feel necessary. For a reliable water source, I won’t treat at all, I’ll just drink it un-treated, but thats just me. (see tip <<< 105 > drinking un-treated water>>>) If you get water from a glacier fed stream in the mountains in Alaska, the need for following the exact instructions is ridiculous. But, for example, if I get water from a lake in the Tetons that has a impacted campsite nearby, I’ll use 7 drops of the mix for about 1-liter of water. Approximately half of what the directions recommend.

Maybe I’ll use a little more, if there are multiple campsites around the lake. And if there are piles of sheep droppings all around that same lake, I’ll follow the instructions exactly using all 14 drops. No good answer here, and if you get sick, don’t sue me!
___________________________________________________________

How long will the pre-mix last?

Time is a judgment call, and I simply can’t give a decisive answer. If it’s bright yellow, it is presumed to be effective. The yellow will slowly disappear over time. Because I use a very tiny bottle for the MIX, it’s usually used up within 24 hours. The tiny bottle is a simple bit of insurance.

If it’s hot and sunny I wouldn’t use the pre-mix after 24 hours. In moderate conditions, I feel that three days is too long, but 48 hours seems like a conservative amount of time to trust it’s effectiveness in cool weather.

It’s impossible to truly know the quality of the pre-mix, so when in doubt - simply air on the side of caution by dumping it out. If I am even slightly concerned it might be old or compromised, I start over.

Edited by mikeclelland on 07/12/2011 20:49:03 MDT.

Kevin Robin
(happakidd)

Locale: Northern California
thanks mike on 07/13/2011 01:44:50 MDT Print View

thanks for all the insight, and the advices; as for your book, I have purchased it, read it twice, girlfriend is currently reading it and we are buying another copy for a friend with back problems and a love for the outdoors.

looks like i will have to give my stove another go when my new pot arrives, although i'll probably sacrifice some weight for the convenience of the jetboil. Definately don't mind an excuse to tinker with the alcohol setup some more; girlfriend thinks i'm crazy; I have a few pressurized side burner stoves and a few penny stoves; is the cat can any better than these?

Aquamira - i'll have to give it a try on one of our upcoming trips; although I love the fact that i can drink the water at the source with the steripen (used this feature lots on the last trip; we didn't need to carry water)

Mike Clelland
(mikeclelland) - MLife

Locale: The Tetons (via Idaho)
The Sierra's got a LOT of snow last winter on 07/13/2011 08:54:44 MDT Print View

Kevin - With the tiny MIX bottle, you still don't "need" to carry the water on your back. Hold the bottle in your hand for 20 minutes, and then drink.

Also - you should be able to drink a lot of un-treated water from springs. The Sierra's got a LOT of snow last winter, and the water should be flowing everywhere. You should be able to make good decisions about what is safe and what isn't. My guess is that almost ALL the running water up high will be *pretty* safe (covering my self legally here). The water to treat is the OBVIOUS stuff.

-

If you have a bunch of alcohol stoves, do some simple testing, you'll get data without too much effort. The cat-food can is simple and easy to make, but it is a fuel hog compared to others. The penny stove is awesome.

You could try and take as little stove fuel as possible, and then add a few esbit cubes as back-up. The cubes make for easy coffee & tea brewing.

-

Also - thanks for promoting the book!

Michael Levine
(Trout) - F

Locale: Long Beach
bottles on 07/13/2011 11:16:57 MDT Print View

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/search.aspx?search=boston%20round%20dropper&page=1

this is what I use for dropper bottles. Very good site, very reasonable prices. One tip is natural = clear. You don't want clear for aquamira (sunlight protection). You'll need more little bottles than you think you will (I mean the small sizes). I originally thought I needed like 12cc of deet, I didn't. I'd honestly buy like 12 of both of the smallest kinds, maybe 6 of each past those. I have a lot of leftover bottles, but they're cheap enough, and I didn't have to pay $5 shipping twice. Buying how many you think you need of the sizes you think you want will ensure paying twice.

also, http://lawsonequipment.com/All-Products/Mini-Dropper-Bottles-p886.html . He just started selling them this week, but it's one option. Personally I'd still do usplastics.

I forgot the jetboil had a fire starter, and I neglected the fact that your shelter has a floor. Oops =)

Edited by Trout on 07/13/2011 11:21:43 MDT.

Mike Clelland
(mikeclelland) - MLife

Locale: The Tetons (via Idaho)
spread the love on 07/13/2011 13:12:16 MDT Print View

Last summer I did a ridiculously huge order from US-Plastics. I got a LOT of tiny bottle in every size imaginable. The bottles are pretty cheap. Now, whenever I camp with someone, I just GIVE them a few bottles. I was tired of hearing people grumble that "Oh, I'll just carry this big bottle of sun block."

They love it, and it was all just a little bit of pre planning on my part.

Peace,
Mike C!

Curtis LayCraft
(LayCraft) - F

Locale: Vancouver Island
Re: aqua-mira on 07/13/2011 19:27:26 MDT Print View

I have to ask. I have been using chlorine dioxide for a while now. Why do you prefer to premix the drops?

Usually I just try to find low risk water. If I have to use it I just have two little dropper bottles. I add a few drops from each then wait for 15 minutes. That 15 minutes is to allow the chlorine dioxide to permeate the water and do the magic. If I premix the drops first, the only thing I am doing is adding the weight of another little premix bottle. Even when premixed the chlorine dioxide takes 15 minutes to work.

The premix bottle saves a minute of time and adds some weight. It only takes a few seconds to count drops. Why not just take a teeny bit more time and less weight?