Sounds like Greg has done everything that has been asked of him by the forum and some of you still seem to have problems with this. I was never totally convinced of any major wrong doing by POE. I did however wonder about people posting negative feed back/reviews that were not directly involved with this issue and were not privy to all the details. If this situation was handled badly it was by the forum and not POE. Thanks Greg!

Edited by zipper on 07/23/2011 09:35:36 MDT.

^ glad you feel that way

I have opened up this thread a few times as it has progressed and every time I end up thinking that this is an unfortunate situation all around. Nobody wins in a "He said She said" situation and this thread points out a problem with the internet to me. There are only two parties who know what actually happened in this situation and I'm surprised to see how quickly everyone rose up against POE. There was mention to a mob in a post from Greg and looking back there was an uprising and near crucifixion towards POE at the mere mention of any impropriety.

I take what I read on the internet with a grain of salt because it is all second hand information. I don't know Kurt and have never purchased a POE product, so don't take this wrong way, but there are accusations of being dishonest and unethical so how do we know that that doesn't apply to both parties?

So why do we see a blind rush to judgment to support and believe a BPL member? Because we are a community. Then why do we dismiss what Greg said happened when he contributes this the community? Because he is the face of a corporation and they must be wrong?

Come on people, this is a fairly educated online community and lets start thinking like a community rather than a mob. So here is what I think...

Did Kurt have an issue? I'm sure he did. Did POE take steps to satisfy Kurt? If they offered a product replacement that was requested or a full refund I don't know what more a company could do. I also have no reason to believe that Greg is being dishonest about this (which I get the feel other BPL member believe).

Anyone other than Kurt or POE that believes differently is making assumptions one way or the other that are based on hearsay or perhaps emotions. There is no compelling visual evidence like the shotty Montbell Repair Work thread and we only have the "He said She said" posts.

So can we be done with this UNFORTUNATE thread?

Mike

I suggest your read through the golite thread some time back, similar issue- resolved in a much better fashion IMO

I'm with you, Mike.

Come on now, gentlemen. ;)

Edited by AaronMB on 07/23/2011 10:38:32 MDT.

Well.... I assumed the OP was a PIA from the beginning. I'm not picking on POE necessarily for their product although the impression I have from the "piling on" is that the problem is deeper than just this one instance. I've run an online business and I've been in Greg's shoes in terms of being unfairly treated by a customer who uses a public forum as a threat or a tool to extort something from me.

You have to be very careful and proactive when dealing with it in the public eye. I've found that most people are very fair if you are transparent in your actions, policy and make a concerted effort to deal with situation in a professional manner.

Most of these situations are an opportunity if you look at them that way. You can use these to make yourself look very good in the eyes of the customers. Maybe not the original one (who typically you want going to your competitors anyway) but to the general population these are great opportunities to market your company.

Easier said than done I know but if you change your tactics and carefully monitor your emotions before you engage..... these are golden opportunities.

All of this is stated above, but in parts.... So here are the facts as a synopsis....... I am available @ 6023398780 if anyone wants a more detailed account.


1) I (Kurt) am the original purchaser. (Yes, I DO have the original receipt)

2) Sally is my gf, to whom I gave the pad as a gift.

3) When her Piece Of $hit POE pad failed miserably, I had HER call POE as I figured that: a) it would be 'no big deal' to have them live up to their so-called 'lifetime' warranty and b) she had the pad in HER possession.

4) She called, and Josh said that he would send a "like kind" pad out immediately (that is, AFTER she sent in the POS pad at her expense) - she trusted his word and she agreed.

5)She received the 'pack M' pad and it was not anywhere NEAR 'like-kind' - in fact it was quite inferior to the X-Lite Thermo. When she called Josh to ask "what's up?", she felt 'dimissed' by Josh @ POE when she asked about the inferior pad that POE had sent. In that same conversation Josh said that if she wanted a pad that met the same specs of the defecive POS pad that she had paid to send in, that she would need to pay an 'upcharge'. At that point she asked that I intervene. I did.

6) I sent an email to Josh stating what I saw as the problem. No response.

7) After no response from Josh @ POE, I posted an account of POE's inaction on BPL (the initial post here).

8) I finally found Greg's email (using Google)and sent him a link to this BPL thread re. his products and ineffective customer service, as well as a link to an earlier BPL discussion as to how GOLITE handled a similar issue, hoping that he would 'see the light'. As you have seen, he did not learn from Golite's experience - maybe it is youth.

9) As you all may have seen, Greg made 'offers' to 'make it right' but never contacted me or Sally directly, by email or phone, even though he had all the addresses and numbers .... nor did Josh. Instead, Greg wrote his smoke-and-mirrors diatribe HERE, but STILL did not respond to Sally or I, nor did he send a 'like kind' pad.

10) Greg has FINALLY, subsequent to a post-after-post hammering, 'STATED' here that he has "handled" the problem (even though he has yet to take any 'real' responsibility for POE's shortcomings).
FYI - No pad has yet been received, nor have Sally or I received ANY communication from POE by phone or email. None.
So his 'handling' of the issue is, at this point, merely more promises.

** OF SPECIAL NOTE **
Is that Greg has refused to publicly address any of the OTHER Pacific Outdoor Equipment(POE) product/customer service failures that have been raised here as part of this thread, although he is obviously aware of them.

Anyone who feels that POE has lived up to their 'lifetime warranty' in this case; needs to BUY a POE pad (or any other POE product) and find out for themselves (at their peril), what 'lifetime warranty' means @ POE, but POE has seen MY last purchase.
After all, if they need to have their 'feet held to the fire' to do the right thing - what does THAT say?

"'Integrity' is doing the right thing when NO ONE is watching"

Edited by kurtibm on 07/24/2011 16:35:50 MDT.

Today Sally & I received an AAC 72 pad from POE.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank BackpackingLight for supplying this forum infastructure, as well as the contributors who make it a living/breathing entity. With your help we were able to help educate the backpacking community about a supplier and at the same time right a wrong.

With thanks,
Kurt

If you were an official bpl "member" Ryan Jordan would of called PEO himself and said pay up B1TCH...haha

Thanks MLD!

I sent in a bug bivy to have a failed zipper repaired and when I got home last night there was a brand new bivy waiting for me constructed of the latest materials. Ron, being an man of few wasted words, unlike Greg Garrigues, did not complain or gripe or negotiate or make excuses, he simply fixed the problem.

Greg Garrigues could learn a lot about standing behind his products from a Ron Bell or a Dan McHale or a Tom Halpin.

Kurt, glad you finally got your replacement pad.

Thanks also for the post. We are about to buy four pads so I have been following the various threads trying to make up my mind: weight vs comfort vs cost. After your experience I'll steer clear of POE. I can only imagine what their customer service would be like in Australia and I can't be bothered finding out in person. Local prices are $80-190 per pad. You do the math!

Ive had warranty issues with other (US 'based') brands and warranty really isn't worth your while as a buying factor, from Australia, Simone. Factor failure in as a cost and buy reliable equipment (even at the sacrifice of a little weight..). Saving a buck is a big part of what shopping via the net and especially choosing cheaper products is about, cant expect miracles.

Different product, but I had the odd pinholing issue with PO Mtn mats and the odd puncture, yet ive had alarmingly easy punctures and overwhelming delamminations with two of the other most popular brands. Even though we buy in tens, both were like pulling teeth to resolve...

The situation in this thread aside (who knows the full story) I actually admire a manufacturer who is prepared to at least explain a position and stick to their guns. I see the mention of just coughing up no matter the justification. Business model aside also, be buggered if I would back down if i knew i was right either...

Edited by bankse on 07/26/2011 07:24:43 MDT.

This is why I like foam pads.

^^^^^ I like this comment ^^^^^