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POE's warranty is a P.O.S.
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Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
They gotta hate us... on 07/20/2011 22:33:53 MDT Print View

...either that, or they're chilling on piles of money, Editor's Choice and Outside Magazine awards and other big-name media endorsements, and could ultimately give a crap if two dozen UL backpackers on a "fringe" site have been railing against them in a forum for 3 weeks.

Aaron Benson
(AaronMB) - F

Locale: Central Valley California
Re: They gotta hate us... on 07/20/2011 22:53:15 MDT Print View

Perhaps, Craig - but it's gone beyond just BPL, as it's been brought up elsewhere, as well. And then there's the talking folks will do off the net. Add it up individually and it may be just Grams - but we all know what happens when things add up!

Edited by AaronMB on 07/20/2011 22:54:42 MDT.

kevperro .
(kevperro) - F

Locale: Washington State
It matters on 07/21/2011 10:39:00 MDT Print View

It matters.... trust me. The larger companies with established distribution channels have some insulation from what is said on the Internet.

The rules are a changing though and trust me, there are retailers, magazine editors and individuals all throughout their distribution channel that read these forums. To mis-handle them is a very bad long-term mistake because marketing has changed forever. Social media and the interaction customers have with companies is changing the landscape and you thumb your nose at it at your own peril.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: It matters on 07/21/2011 10:58:55 MDT Print View

Kevin,

I agree with you. BPL might be small compared to other forums, but it is read and respected by others. Before I join the forums, I lurked in a few other BPing sites. Though, those sites may not be interested in UL, there is a lot of respect for the knowledge and skill of the people here. I saw a lot of quotes and links to BPL with comments like, "Hey there's a thread over on BPL with some great information..."

Yes indeed, the landscape has changed.

Alex Gilman
(Vertigo) - F

Locale: Washington
Doesn't matter on 07/21/2011 12:43:43 MDT Print View

Next time someone searches for POE Pad reviews, this thread will come up. In fact let me repeat the keyword phrase POE pad reviews just for good measure.

Then they will read the thread and this will directly translate into lost sales for POE pads because POE pads have horrible reviews by real campers.

That's what you get for being stubborn. All you had to do was say you're sorry and make things right. Over 60 bucks you just lost thousands in sales.

Stop taking advice from the Charlie Sheen business model.

Edited by Vertigo on 07/21/2011 12:44:14 MDT.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
charlie on 07/21/2011 13:07:25 MDT Print View

"Stop taking advice from the Charlie Sheen business model."

^ classic :)

Aaron Benson
(AaronMB) - F

Locale: Central Valley California
Re: charlie on 07/21/2011 13:12:24 MDT Print View

Definitely not Winning!

Mat Tallman
(wehtaM) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Doesn't matter on 07/21/2011 20:38:57 MDT Print View

"Next time someone searches for POE Pad reviews, this thread will come up. In fact let me repeat the keyword phrase POE pad reviews just for good measure.

Then they will read the thread and this will directly translate into lost sales for POE pads because POE pads have horrible reviews by real campers.

That's what you get for being stubborn. All you had to do was say you're sorry and make things right. Over 60 bucks you just lost thousands in sales.

Stop taking advice from the Charlie Sheen business model."

Who are we talking about here?

Oh right, Pacific Outdoor Equipment and their bad sleeping pad reviews and customer service...

POE peak elite AC
Pacific outdoor equipment peak elite AC
Pacific outdoor equipment sleeping pad
ether thermo
peak elite
ether elite
pad
review
reviews

Did I miss any important keywords to navigate all subsequent google searches to this page?
Big mistake hosing a customer POE, lose thousands to save 20 bucks, fail.

Duh, NOT winning!

Denis Daly
(hobbs) - F
POE"s warranty is a P.O.S" on 07/21/2011 22:22:27 MDT Print View

Wow!
Hey I just wanted to jump in on this when I had an opertunity. On this thread the original OP pointed out a situtation of another manufacturer and you will see on that thread what positive actions were taken. You will also see I was the individual who recommended sending the thread because a friend on another forum had went thru a customer service issue and this resolved it for Both parties mutually positively and then some for the company and idividuals. If anything that company mentioned has earned that much more respect by the outdoor community. I think Kevin? Pointed out what can change if it is approached by both parties. I don't own any POE equiptment and doubt I will. I also read this thread and whats happening on another forum and yes negative remarks hurt Brand Name and that particular item name. Ask any Traded brand name or company? With the present economy any company thinks 20 sales and potential customers will not hurt needs to reavaluate what their in business for. I understand and apreciate the president of the company supporting his staff and company. But there is a time to step to the side and reavluate what happened and be the bigger person and just fix it. It works in your favor more. With that I hope the OP and POE move forward and it works out.

kevperro .
(kevperro) - F

Locale: Washington State
It has talked me out. on 07/22/2011 09:50:31 MDT Print View

I have to say.... I'm a notorious cheap-skate and even I've been swayed by this thread to cancel my Peak Elite AC purchase.

I guess I'll save my pennies for the new Cascade Designs uber-expensive pad that is sold by a solid company.

Greg Garrigues
(ggarrigues) - F
We have taken care of the customer. on 07/22/2011 14:42:59 MDT Print View

BPL-
How do I respond to all of the threads above without being accused of writing War and Peace? I am going to divert from Customer Service 101 and instead of trying to appease a mob, I am going to look you all in the eyes and say, “We have done the right thing, and amongst you, there is a bad actor.”

What you all need to know is that our staff has treated Sally with the utmost respect and has tried to resolve her issues positively at every point of contact with her. I prefer not to spar with a customer, but when her boyfriend Kurt accuses us of having a “POS” warranty before he even attempted any communication with us, I feel compelled to address his accusations head on. To be frank, he is what I would call a pot stirrer. Yes, he posted his “POS” comment before attempting to contact us, and then sends a blind link with no reference to the topic, who the actual customer is, to nothing. I respect honest feedback good or bad, but this Kurt person is feeding you incorrect information and has stirred some of the forum into acting like a mob rather than a community. We all know that the power of the internet is huge, but we all also have an obligation to be responsible users.

It has been suggested to me by both forum writers and associates that we just rollover and let this person take shots at us, but you should know specifically what we have done. For starters, we have done exactly what we said we would do. We contacted Sally (the actual customer) when we received the mat back that she said she did not want. We asked her to confirm that we should replace it with the mat that she wanted at no extra cost. In addition, we gave her an option, since we had read on the internet (it was not communicated directly to us) that her boyfriend had decided to replace her mat with a competitors, we would send her a refund check if she could email us a copy of the receipt. Simple, and we made every effort to communicate that we wanted to fix the problem. We got a positive response from her at 11:49-MST on 18-July confirming that we should send her the replacement mat. Then after we do everything that the customer asked of us and after going an extra mile and offering them additional solutions, Kurt then writes at 23:08-MST that same day that we are, “…still jerking Sally & I around...” How is that appropriate after we did exactly what Sally asked us to do? Let me reiterate, we just sent her a replacement mat and offered to refund her money.

As suggested by one of your forum members, I will take my licks and apologize as a representative of Pacific Outdoor any time that it is deserved, but this pot stirring and mob slamming is not the spirit of the outdoor community I know and love and feel it is highly inappropriate. What happened to etiquette and common courtesy? I wonder if these people still practice those principles on the trail?

Like our gear or don’t like our gear. Fine. Like that we offer jobs to good people or don’t like where we make it, also fine. Want to give us feedback about what we make, very much appreciated. Have a problem with the way you feel you have been treated, then deal with us openly, honestly and directly, don’t beat around the bush and then poke at us from behind a veil. Maybe you think we are a corporate behemoth with no face. We aren’t. We are a close-knit group of folks running an employee owned business that is in the outdoor industry because we love to get outdoors, and wanted to make gear for our friends and people that we want to be out there on the trail with, and it should be known that we treat every interaction this way. If you have a problem with our gear, contact our customer service department support@pacoutdoor.com If you don’t like the way they treat you, then contact me 406/586.5258 greg@pacoutdoor.com

As was mentioned in a comment above, the customer is always right; I believe this also, and always defer to giving the customer the benefit of the doubt. I do not however believe that you should assume that buying a $54 product from someone gives you the right to take cheap shots at them. There is a person behind every product, and I expect the same integrity and courtesies from you, as you expect from my staff and me.

Our staff works hard to service our customers and deserves to be defended when they do the right things. We strive to make amazing gear, we operate with integrity at our core, and we will always go the extra mile for our customers. At the end of the day, we hope that you support a company with values and innovation.

-Greg

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: We have taken care of the customer. on 07/22/2011 15:05:49 MDT Print View

"How do I respond to all of the threads above without being accused of writing War and Peace?"

I dunno, I kind of liked War and Peace.....

And I will continue to look to your company, as I do others, for gear that meets my needs.

Thanks for the post.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: We have taken care of the customer. on 07/22/2011 15:12:24 MDT Print View

"I dunno, I kind of liked War and Peace....."

Tolstoy was underrated as a backpacker.

--B.G.--

kevperro .
(kevperro) - F

Locale: Washington State
Sorry....where there is smoke there is fire. on 07/22/2011 15:21:00 MDT Print View

I don't see just one complaint. There are multiple people complaining about your product quality and how they were treated in the warranty process.

I don't have a horse in this race. I've never owned one of your products and was very inclined to try one but as I said above.... where there is smoke there is fire. It is typically true.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: We have taken care of the customer. on 07/22/2011 15:21:10 MDT Print View

Very legitimate points and well expressed too. Thanks for posting.

Richard Scruggs
(JRScruggs) - MLife

Locale: Oregon
The End on 07/22/2011 16:08:05 MDT Print View

The End.

Alex Gilman
(Vertigo) - F

Locale: Washington
"Poe pad reviews" on 07/23/2011 00:10:59 MDT Print View

Congradulations this thread ranks in the top 5 for this search term. Winning!

JASON CUZZETTO
(cuzzettj) - MLife

Locale: NorCal - South Bay
RE: POE on 07/23/2011 00:57:08 MDT Print View

Want to thank BPL for posts like this. I hope POE takes this to heart and goes the extra mile. Taking issue with the entire thread the way they did just made POE look bad, period. I wouldn't have even read this entire post if it wasn't for the HUGE AMOUNT OF ATTENTION POE placed in this feed back. Apologize and take care of the customer. Tell your staff you screwed up and to make sure the team is ridiculously cool to all of your customers in the future. Even if they are giant pains. Oh yeah, and smile. If you make something great we will buy it and recommend it. We are your worst enemy and best friend. Treat us like your best friend.

Aaron Benson
(AaronMB) - F

Locale: Central Valley California
Re: RE: POE on 07/23/2011 07:55:25 MDT Print View

If you read the posts on 'this' page, you'll see that this has been done.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
30+ years on 07/23/2011 08:37:37 MDT Print View

This has been poorly handled. If a company is airing their customer comments on a public forum that their customer base hangs out, not a very good decision. If it went this far, the customer should have been contacted directly by a supervisor and asked "what can we do to make this right?" Even with my limited smarts, I realize, make this go away, expedite whatever needs to be done. I've been in retail management for 30 years and work some with Customer Service now and I try to look after the customer at the chagrin of my immediate supervisors and with the kudos of my department manager. If something has escalated this far, bite the bullet and do the right thing. An item under $100 has cost how much in business now?

Duane