That is pretty sad to watch. Your group escaped the Darwin award this time. I hope you now realize how dangerous raging water can be. I suggest you edit the video with stronger language as to all the things your group did wrong. I don't think any of you should be using an axe either, personal safety as well as not chopping trees down. Fortunately I have lived though my mistakes also. Take care and learn.

Wow, that's nuts! I feel very sorry for the trees.

Here's an article from the Ventura County Star about a recent Sierra Club trip in the Los Padres during a heavy rainstorm. Seems where high water is concerned, making mistakes is pretty common. Why is staying put so hard for people to do?

http://www.vcstar.com/rescue/

You are brave and wise to post this.

I do hope you are sending your tripmates a link to this thread? And/or to other sources of information on safe river crossing, general wilderness travel safety, etc.

Otherwise: Who is to say they won't go out and do it again?

- Elizabeth

Piper - That was a really interesting video to watch. I wish more videos with this kind of info and interviews were available. People makes mistakes, none of us are immune. So, it's best to try to learn from our mistakes and the mistakes of others. It was great that this group was willing to share their story in a thoughtful manner.

Most interesting to me was their decision to leave their tents and sleeping bags behind, and to hear their reasoning (6:55 minutes). In particular, this line struck me: "We left our gear there so they won't be so burdened down at the crossings." It struck me that this point is so relevant to this forum and backpacking safety. Simple put, heavy gear and packs are a burden. In the best of conditions, heavy packs just slow you down, hurt your body, and mess up your balance by seriously throwing off your center of gravity. In an emergency, these problems are amplified to the point that it becomes alluring to unburden yourself by shedding gear.

Again, thanks for posting this link Piper. It's good to hear some thoughtful reflection on a dangerous situation.

Some hiker's in Yosemite weren't so lucky.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/01/BA1I1K4VG6.DTL

The Ventura County video is outstanding! Very good use of Google Earth, the hikers' photos and interviews. That one has some learning/teaching value.

Unfortunately, the vid in this thread has too much profanity (in the video and from me, watching the axe work) in it to be useful for my needs. You may already know, fellas, but hunker down next time.

Instead of these dudes killing each other with the axe or drowning in the river, we discover that they're actually reproducing. Check out Roberto's "About Me" - awesome.

Edited by billygoat on 07/01/2011 12:47:10 MDT.

Thanks for posting this and being open to learning from your mistakes. I totally held my breath as your buddy was pulled under that strainer. Your group was certainly lucky that everyone made it home safe. I'll offer some insights just FYI.


As far as the stream crossings, there are a few techniques that are useful, but nothing that would have let you cross in waist deep water. First, avoid the barefoot crossing if you can't see the bottom. I like neoprene socks, but in a pinch you can always pull your boot insole and put it in a regular sock. I deep gash in someone's foot is a trip ender. TO cross more safely you can link arms or oven better form a triangle/square and all cross together. Kinda ruins the hero stream crossing pictures, but it is much safer. Also, with solo crossing I like to face upstream and sidestep as it provides greater stability, control, and keeps your legs from being crossed by the force of the water. Make sure your packs are always unbuckled so they don't drown you if you do go down. Also, logs and anything unusual in the water should be avoided at all costs (even though they seem so tempting).

The other thing I would encourage you to think about is your group's dynamics and the role you played. I would imagine that someone in your party knew what a strainer was, knew about water crossing depth, for that matter, could figure out that standing in front of a swinging axe was a bad idea. So the question becomes why did it all happen and how could all of this been prevented or at least, the danger minimized. Your group's desire to be home for father's day motivated some poor decisions, but at the same time those decisions were still acted upon and the questions of how/why you let it happen are important.

While these are big questions that can't be answered quickly, one little trick I use is to have a 2 minute-ish time to play devils advocate when making risky decisions. You designate half the group to argue for something and half to argue against. If you agree to to this at the trailhead it keeps you from having to be the jerk if you want to argue about a risky decision.

Best of luck and go make a donation to a restoration project for chopping down those trees.

J Boro- that's awesome advice about delegating certain members of the party to play the devils advocate. I hope to incorporate that into my group trips.

Piper and Richard, thank you for the links...all of this is very relevant considering the extra snow experienced in many areas this year. Does anyone know more about the bridge mentioned in Richards article? Is it an established bridge w/o a banister/railing, or is it like a log/blowdown bridge?

"Does anyone know more about the bridge mentioned in Richards article? Is it an established bridge w/o a banister/railing, or is it like a log/blowdown bridge?"

Here's a picture of the bridge posted by someone in the comments section under the article:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cowgirljules/5872741691/

Thank you Chris. Holy cow, it's got a banister and everything. That's a really terrible tragedy. To be honest, I'm not even sure a lot of us (myself included) would have second guessed the decision to cross such an established bridge. Without actually having seen the conditions, it's a bit hard to really pass judgement on the circumstances. The article made it seem like there was only current running across part of bridge, but nothing posing as an clear and obvious danger. Im of the belief that park officials will state that the water levels were extremely high, regardless of whether the conditions were truly like that at the time the victims fell over. I mean, they only closed the bridge after the accident, so It probably wasn't an abundantly clear danger. Either way, it's an eye opener for me. Both men were intelligent, and at least one of them appeared to be really familiar with the outdoors. A real tragedy.

For those interested, here's a another picture of the bridge, which gives the viewer an even better perspective of it's construction and location:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/casualclicks/2488073867/

Here's another source covering the same story:
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/LA-Two-LA-Hikers-Dead-after-Yosemite-Accident-124838189.html

Edited by Konrad1013 on 07/01/2011 13:40:55 MDT.

yeah they cut down seven trees. so what .. anybody notice there's already a ROAD going thru there ?
seven trees compared to whack'n a road thru that stuff. it's a matter of no consequence.

kinda a tough crossing though. way over my head, i carry an alpacka for that very kind of thing.
ever seen "being caribou" where karsten and leanne heuer swim ladeeda down the firth river in the yukon ?

Thanks for posting the pics Konrad! That looks about as good a bridge as anyone could ask for. I can't imagine how much water it would take to wash you off that, but I guess there in lies the lesson. When in doubt, don't go. I also think the designated devils advocate approach is pretty darn smart!

I loled.....is that bad?

For that? I'm sure most agree that using a Spot or anything of the sort should be left to life threatening situations and not because the river is too hard to cross.

RS -

The SPOT "OK" button sends "All is well, don't fret".

It lets folks on the other end know that even though you're not where they thought you would be, things are under control.

It's the Other button that calls for help.

That's why it was a reasonable suggestion, and that's why a lot of people like SPOT.

Edited by greg23 on 07/02/2011 18:44:53 MDT.

My apologizes.

In all seriousness, thanks for posting it. And I appreciate reading the comments.

I'm sitting her on a stunningly beautiful 4th of July weekend, in front of my computer and watching TV. I made the decision to stay home instead of venturing into the Trinity Alps because of the streams. I really don't want to die. Dude, you could have died. Then you'd feel really stupid.

BTW, I just saw the part where you cut down the trees. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Edited by goby99 on 07/03/2011 12:28:56 MDT.

I found my photo of the Monte Cristo log crossing. That downstream sweeper was closer than I remembered-- you can see it in the upper left corner. Like I said, fall off the big log either way and you're toast.

Edited by dwambaugh on 07/03/2011 12:34:20 MDT.

Thanks for posting. Many of us have had moments like this, and the fact that you've documented and shared yours will surely make someone out there a better hiker.