My first UL packs were ones I made myself by modifying more traditional packs. The first thing I did was cut the lid off. It has always seemed to me like a lot of weight for not much storage. I much prefer mesh pockets.

I like pack lids for aesthetic reasons and practical reasons. I'm not into side pockets either, as I hike up to peaks and they get in the way going up tight spaces or go bush bashing through forests. I don't have a problem stopping for a drink and opening the pack to get some water- an amazing concept for some, but I'm never in a hurry anyway.
I've tried lots of UL packs without lids, ULA Circuit, Amp, Relay; GG Murmur, and find that I can't get my head around the closures on these packs, and they always look and feel a bit odd, for me. They always have too much fabric floating around which I find gets in the way.
I'm stuck on my Golite Ion and my NF Verto 26- they work well for me, tidy, and clean lines.
I'm an artist, so maybe I'm a bit fussy about the visual side of things.
Hike your own hike- but I try to be the best dressed and cleanest looking guy (gear wise) on the mountain, 'cause thats just me.
2c de nada, I suppose.

Eric - you aren't serious, are you?

The side pockets are for water bottles and the front pocket is meant to split the main bag into two parts - one for dry gear and one for wet. And a top pocket is for......?

As far as aesthetics, I would think that most of use can't actually see the pack we are carrying when it is on our backs so probably not a real issue here - top pocket or not.

Edited by FamilyGuy on 06/19/2011 07:32:40 MDT.

i dont use side pockets or water bottles ... and i just strap any wet gear to the top, no need for mesh

so they are pointless for me

or are ya going to tell me not using side bottles is not ul ;)

plenty of people use packs without side bottles or pockets just fine ... no "need" for em ... its just preference

Edited by bearbreeder on 06/19/2011 08:11:54 MDT.

I agree, pockets are unnecesary

They add weight, weaken the pack, make it less waterproof, stuff tends to fall out of pockets, water bottle warms up or freezes, stuff rattles around, or weight shifts

It takes a few seconds to open main pack - you have to put stuff you'll need during the day on top - water, food, extra clothing, TP, water treatment,...

Of course its just a matter of opinion and what works for you. If you want a lid then use one. If not then no worries.
I just want to add if you notice most AT thru-hikers in GA have lids and if you check in further up north the vast majority of those same people have removed them.

I agree with Serge on this. Guy must've been well educated.

I've been leaving my lid at home more often than not for a long time, back into my Dana Design days (and climbing days, for that matter).

This is a pretty preposterous subject for evangelism.

"First off, in my opinion, they just kind of look stupid..."

You're talking to a community of people that have been known to use stuff sacks as camp shoes, bread bags as waterproof footwear, wear down quilt ponchos with down hats, use cuben fiber rain CHAPS, and experiment with closed-cell foam pads as insulating layers...

"This is a pretty preposterous subject for evangelism."

Amen brother.

I don't think there is anything preposterous about saying it's dysfunctional. Everyone gets to have their opinions. I've owned enough packs in my 37 years of backpacking, to form an opinion based on first hand experience. There are some packs with top lids that were pretty heavy, I admit. Some were even fanny packs, when removed like Dana, Osprey, Kelty and couple others I can't remember. If made out of lightweight stuff, they would probably weigh less than the extra material used to roll down on top of packs without lids.

They could even be made out of mostly mesh, or cuben and a little zipper pocket, for keys or small things, that I don't want to loose or hunt for. They give form to the pack and keep things snug and horn-less ;). Also, it doesn't take any longer to unbuckle a lid than it does to unbuckle and unroll a lid-less pack.

Doesn't that huckePack have a top lid? Man, they were thinking.:)

Edited by Reluctantwaterhauler on 06/19/2011 11:22:48 MDT.

I strongly suspect that one person's "dysfunctional" is the next person's "useful"!

Having gone straight from an external frame pack to a lightweight one with no lid, I've never missed the lid! Nor do I see the need for one. I do like the outside pockets, so I can keep wet stuff (shelter) and items I need frequently during the day (water bottle, snacks) handy (my shelter goes in one side pocket and my water and snacks in the other). That front mesh pocket is a great place to dry wet socks. For me, a pack lid would be unnecessary weight. If you want one, though, there are many different packs with lids available, and a couple of the firms making ultralight packs sell lids separately for those who want them.

Get the pack that works for you, but please realize that not everyone wants the same thing!

Edited by hikinggranny on 06/19/2011 15:44:36 MDT.

Personally, I could not see having a pack without at least side pockets. I carry (2) 1 qt Gator-Aid bottles in my side pockets and access these while on the go. I can stop at available water source's too while in route, without needing to remove my pack, whick you need to do when carrying a water-bladder. I would not go without hip-belt or shoulder strap pockets either. I keep Aqua-Mira in my hip-belt pockets which is also how I aquire and treat water on-the-go. I like my front pocket too, but also like the larger detachable McHale Utility front pocket, which is where I place my tarp, bivy, and Neo-Air. This allows me to set up my shelter, without ever needing to dig into my pack,until after the shelter is set-up. This is great for when its raining as after the tarp is up, I can access the rest of my gear while staying dry.

Edited by mfog1 on 06/19/2011 16:13:06 MDT.

I ackowledge that most people find pockets useful, and don't find it necesary to evangelize about it, but...

There's no reason to drink water more often than once an hour or so, so if it takes one minute to put your pack down and get a bottle out it's no big deal

The water will be a little cooler which I like

And I prefer my pack to be one tight package that doesn't shift around or make noises

I agree with the whole poofy side pocket argument, especially if they are made from a loosely woven mesh material. These poofy side pockets end up snagging every bush and branch they can find. On paper they are nice but in actual usage they are a bit over rated. I think its a bad design and think woven stretch side pockets that go tight against the pack or no no side pockets at all are the only way to go. Lids, frames and panel loaders are also nice functional features but most people think they weigh to much. Remember opinions are like a--holes. Everyone has one.

I never really thought that roll top lids were a very elegant solution. I agree that they are a little sloppy. I know that they are supposed to allow for an extension, but personally I would rather strap something on top of my Jam2 than fill up the extension collar especially since I have never used it and yet always have to carry it.
I wonder if the extra fabric that is rolled up is enough to make a lid? Some of the old skool lid attachments also double as compression straps. I think panel loaders look cleaner too. Look at packs like the Ion.
I have the MLD lid and if fits on my Jam and it does look nicer with the lid but I haven't used it yet, I just got it as an option to make my pack more versatile.
This is all very subjective of coarse!

"There's no reason to drink water more often than once an hour or so, so if it takes one minute to put your pack down and get a bottle out it's no big deal."

No reason?

I can think of a few reasons off the top of my head.

Temperatures higher than the mild temps and humid air you see up in the PNW perhaps may warrant more frequent drinking. How about ascending above treeline under a warm summer sun? Or perhaps hiking midday across a mesa in New Mexico in June with less than 10% humidity? Or if a full day of hiking is >30 miles a day?

The roll top is the simplest no-brain option for a pack, a big fabric tube with a gaping orifice at the top and some string... brilliant! It's not the most pleasing to the eye but I'm a firm believer in aesthetic subjectivism.

"Temperatures higher than the mild temps and humid air you see up in the PNW perhaps may warrant more frequent drinking."

Okay, good point, I forget there are hot places

Lids are what they are: lids. Use one if you like or just go without. I like them because I can put all the small fidly stuff in it that I need to get to. And even more importantly, all the smelly stuff that needs to go into a bear canister at the end of the day. Then I don't have to scour my pack, I just get those items out of the convient lid pocket and I'm done. Hike your own hike as somebody said earlier. Amen. And as another said, it's not worth evangelizing. Clearly correct.

Don't evangelize about hiking your own hike.



;)

^^^^^^^

ha!

Dave URE wrote:

"As far as aesthetics, I would think that most of use can't actually see the pack we are carrying when it is on our backs so probably not a real issue here - top pocket or not."

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read for a while, and shows a lack of understanding of what aesthetics actually means.

I can't see my head all day, but I care about my hairstyle and how I present myself, like everyone else.

Aesthetics are a crucial part of our decision making process. We first judge people based on how they choose to present themsleves to us, and choose products we prefer based on visual appeal and good design that is fit for intended purpose.
How many pink and lime green packs do you own, Dave?

Good design follows through into confidence of a tool fit for purpose and if a lid suits your purpose, and appeals to your aesthetic, go for it!

For some people it is a real issue, and universally dismissing it sounds pompous and ill informed to me.

4c de nada this time.

Edited by fredfoto on 06/20/2011 02:25:39 MDT.