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Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Totally Un-UL, Un Hi-tech list: on 06/08/2011 22:49:46 MDT Print View

I've been playing with the idea of starting to do "themed" trips, sticking to gear from the past. First up, I'm looking to create a basic 3 season gearlist based upon non-synthetic, traditional gear; something akin to what my grandfather would've likely used prior to WWII. I'd like to start getting out on some local overnighters with this gear...some of it I already own. It's a little hard to define the rules for this exercise, so please chime in with ideas there as well. This is all for fun so a little fudging here or there is fine.

I'm assuming a few things in building this list:
1. Two nights in typical 3 season SoCal mountain weather (though I wouldn't be at over 6'000 feet for this) Highs 80s, lows mid 30s/low 40s, chance of rain.
2. Use of minimal/low impact bushcraft skills (no gathering/cutting live stuff): carving tent pegs, gathering material for bedding insulation, cooking on a fire, using downed wood for shelter poles, etc...
3. Avoiding all plastics, electronics, synthetic fabrics and insulation, titanium, contemporary materials in general. I'm setting my technology sights on roughly the 1930s. I don't have a real clear picture on exactly what materials were in place at the time (i.e., what were typical waterproofing treatments of the time...waxed canvas? Rubberized canvas? etc.).
4. Trying to stick to a cost effective plan. I.E., I'm not going to start sewing silk quilts with 850 fill down or buy up a bunch of new merino clothing.
5. Willing to fudge a few things: I.E. surplus wool blankets are often 20-30% synthetic, but good enough for this exercise. I recently found a really nice German rucksack, all canvas and leather, though it had updated plastic buckles.

Here are some basics I've been thinking...please fill in the gaps, offer suggestions.

________________________________________________________

Pack:
Rucksack (Surplus…hard to find without plastic buckles these days, but many options exist)

Shelter:
Canvas Shelter half or small tarp (shelter half lighter than a 6'x9' tarp, can be pitched in simple lean-to style with closed ends)
rope

Sleeping:
Wool blanket (hard to find surplus with 100% wool…best I’ve seen yet is 70% wool. Chose this because it's cheap, relatively light and I'm I'm familiar with a few different wrapping/layering styles to create a mummy bag from a wool blanket)

Kitchen/Cooking:
Aluminum pot/lid with bail (Stanco grease pot w/wooden knob should do)
Steel spork (I have an old one)

Essentials/hydration:
Knife/ sheath (I'll be taking a Mora bushcraft model with leather sheath).
Water treatment…Iodine or simply boiling? (when did Iodine come into use?)
Aluminum/steel canteen (x2)
Matches/tinder in WP case
Storm candles x2 (or candle lantern?)
Steel whistle
Basic first aid kit (what would this include...basically gauze and wraps? Where can I get morphine ? :)

Clothing Carried:
Wool sweater
??? Raingear ??? What should be done for waterproofing pack, bedroll, etc? I know rubberized/waxed canvas ponchos have been around a long time, but they're probably heavy as hell and are redundant if not being used as a shelter.
Wool socks (spare)
Wool beanie
Wool gloves
T shirt (spare)....

Thoughts/ideas appreciated.

Dustin Short
(upalachango) - MLife
Re: Totally Un-UL, Un Hi-tech list: on 06/08/2011 23:41:57 MDT Print View

First off...a historical reenactment forum is probably better suited for this post but I'll play along anyway.

You forgot heavy leather boots.

Raingear: yep going to be a heavy rubber/wax canvas poncho most likely. Not sure why you're complaining about it though. It's your idea to emulate the old ways, and guess what they were heavy and redundant. Deal with it! =)

Don't forget a large heavy wooden stick to act as a rifle (I'll let you double it as a trekking pole). Shovel (gotta dig those trenches).

This may help:

http://www.wwiiimpressions.com/usarmy.html

David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
Re: Maybe more UL and hi-tech than we recognize on 06/09/2011 06:04:49 MDT Print View

First of all, this is a worthy and entertaining exercise. However, I don't necessarily agree that people 100 years ago didn't know how to travel light, and, in many respects their gear may have been more "hi-tech" than we tend to appreciate today. One of the problems with replicating that gear is that many of the materials and supplies are no longer in common use.

For example, try purchasing an Egyptian cotton tent waterproofed with lead acetate- they were light, waterproof (mostly) and breathable. They used things like wool over-shirts waterproofed with anhydrous lanolin- warm, waterproof and breathable. Epic may be better but really how much better? The list goes on.

Still, it can be done and probably at no great penalty it terms of weight or functionality.

You would probably enjoy reading Horace Kephart's book titled "Camping and Woodcraft" originally published 1917 and any or all of the reprints of Calvin Rutstrum's books.

PS The Polar Pure iodine crystal water treatment is a modern commercial adaption of a vintage approach.

Keep us posted, we are looking forward to a trip report. (Please keep in mind you would have to be replicating a much earlier era to justify any pEnis gourd photo.)

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Totally Un-UL, Un Hi-tech list: on 06/09/2011 08:43:18 MDT Print View

Sounds kinda cool. I think you have to decide, as David alluded to, whether you're going to try and do traditional 1930s backpacking, or lightweight 1930s backpacking. Both existed. If lightweight, you shouldn't rely on what the military used to use, as the military will always use heavier, more durable, and more cost effective equipment.

And are you only interested in what 1930s Americans would backpack in. If not, kilts should be in play (not being cheeky here). Talk about a multifunctional piece of equipment.

FWIW.

Adan Lopez
(Lopez) - F

Locale: San Gabriel Valley
1930 on 06/09/2011 08:48:57 MDT Print View

Craig,
I have two one-person military canvas tents shaped in half-pyramid fashion with the metal snaps on the edge so that you can snap two together to create a full roomy shelter. not sure the vintage on these. They work well with a staff in the center as the support. I used it once in the rain to see how it works and what i notice is that although not waterproof at all, the water still runs directly to ground so you just have to avoid touching the walls. BTW, dont forget, theres no reason you have to carry a shelter. That's probably the 1930s version of ultralight, just do without!


I also have some artisanal homemade tequila which has been made in Mexico since at least that long ago. You know, just in case you want to add a 1930's Bandido spin to it!! Haha!

Jeremy Malin
(jrmalin) - F

Locale: New England
1860's ultralight on 06/09/2011 10:13:42 MDT Print View

After 4 years of backpacking during HS with 50+ pounds, I took a history class my freshman year of college in which we studied/reenacted the life of an average person during the Civil War. We spent a lot of time at state and national parks doing demonstrations (since we were pretty much the only reenacting group in the country that was close to the actual average age of soldiers during the CW). We also reenacted a few forced marches with very minimal equipment. We did not carry tents. We carried a wool blanket (Woolrich made them then and now, with some nylon) and our extra clothes (don't forget that silk and wool are great materials) rolled up in a rubber blanket or poncho (much like the poncho tarps we like today, just considerably heavier). A lighter, but less waterproof option, is painted oilcloth. Everything else was carried in a haversack (basically a small canvas messenger bag), since most soldiers were not issued packs. Cooking was obviously done over a fire, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone intrepid was using some sort of a hobo stove, but I have no evidence to back that up. The Imusa mugs many of us have a very similar to the tin mugs used in the 1860's. If you leave out the rifle (10+ lbs), and accoutrements (another 10+ lbs), I would guess that we were traveling with under 20 lbs. When it was cold (numerous nights below freezing, lowest being 18° F), we definitely needed the help of a fire to stay warm, but you can certainly sleep comfortably with this setup down to 40° with some extra heat from a fire. Historically, the other source of heat when it was cold was spooning (we'll stay away from that discussion). I could continue with many more details, but the point is, ultralight is definitely not a new concept. We may be better at it in some ways, but in other ways, most of us could probably learn a whole lot from our ancestors (who would all be in agreement with Mike Clelland and nix the TP).

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Nessmuk on 06/09/2011 10:38:16 MDT Print View

Check out George Sears stuff too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Sears

His book wood craft is quick good reading.

A 10 lb wood canoe!

Pitch for mosquitoes and sunscreen.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: 1860's ultralight on 06/09/2011 10:48:03 MDT Print View

Thanks for the feedback so far.

I should be clear, I'm NOT trying to be some sort of military reenacter out there, simply trying to recreate a level of older outdoor technology. I only cite surplus military gear because it's so readily available.

I would also like to remain as light as possible.

I'd love to see the shelter halves you have Adan.

One issue I'm having is that if you're going pre-nylon for waterproof goods (which I understand came into use in the US military in roughly 1943), we're talking either plain canvas (which is OK for shelter, but questionable for raingear), oil cloth (which is difficult to come by unless I make it), or rubberized/coated canvas (which again is hard to come by). Any ideas for sourcing a ~waterproof poncho/shelter combo? Maybe I could look into my own oilcloth...which I hear is highly flammable to make yourself.

Keep the ideas rolling, I appreciate it.

I'm going out for an overnight this weekend...weather should be mellow so I'm considering making a maiden voyage with a wool blanket (with gear rolled in it as a pack), and other simple pre-synth gear.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
analog photography gear on 06/09/2011 11:18:30 MDT Print View

For sure pack an old school analog camera to document if you do a trip report, a Holga would probably be your lightest and simplest option, or maybe some pre-sensitized print out paper for sun prints...just a thought. I like your ideas here Craig.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: 1860's ultralight on 06/09/2011 11:36:45 MDT Print View

Have you seen this: http://www.curbly.com/modhomeecteacher/posts/6857-real-oilcloth-and-how-to-make-it

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
1962 ski mountaineering list on 06/09/2011 12:25:27 MDT Print View

Perhaps you can gleen something from this.

Sierra Club Manual of Ski Mountaineering Checklist of Equipment
1962

Equipment to Wear

Advisable

· Underwear

· Shirt

· Socks

· Ski Pants

· Belt

· Hat or Cap

· Ski Boots

· Parka

· Mittens

· Bandanna

· Dark Glasses

· Gaiters

· Matches

· Pocket Knife

· Skis

· Bindings

· Ski Poles

· Watch

Optional

· Knapsack

· Notebook and Pencil

· Handkerchief

Equipment To Carry

· Rucksack or Pack Frame, 56-76 oz

· Emergency Kit, 18 oz

· Adhesive Tape, 4 oz

· Outer Mits, 3 oz

· Headband, 1 oz

· Blizzard Visor, 1 oz

· Sweaters or Down Jacket With Hood, 18-26 oz

· Waxes, 6 oz

· Foam Insulation or Air Mattress , 26 oz

· Sleeping Bag, 32 - 80 oz

· Compass, Small, 2 oz

· Sunburn Protection, 1 oz

· Oversocks, 5 oz

· Cup, 3 oz

· Map

· Bandana, 1 oz

· Skins, 20 oz

· Toothbrush, Soap, and Comb, 2 oz

· Flashlight, 2 oz

· Undersocks, 3 oz

· Avalanche Cord

· Extra Matches, 1 oz

Total, 14 lbs.

Optional

· Extra Glasses, 1 oz

· Case for Above, 2 oz

· Balaklava Helmet, 5 oz

· Innersoles, 4 oz

· Emergency Food, 12 oz

· Camera and Film, 30 oz

· Windpants, 14 oz

Community Equipment for Three or Four

· Tent, 64 oz

· Repair Kit, 18 oz

· Headlight, 22 oz

· One Stove, Funnel, and Container, 34 oz

· Two Nesting Pots, 16 oz

· Five Spoons, 4 oz

· Extra Glasses, case, 3 oz

· Food and Containers (per man day), 40 oz

· Fuel and Containers (per man day), 16 oz

· Toilet Tissue

· Matches

· Two Flasks, 8 oz

Optional

· 200 feet 5/16” rope, 100 oz

· Hand Axe, Sheath, 29 oz

· Emergency Food, 32 oz

· Snow Shovel, 8 oz

· Extra Laces, 1 oz

· Can Opener, 1 oz

· Ace Bandage, 2 oz

· Boot Wax, 8 oz

· Extra Battery Cells, 10 oz

· Stove Parts, 1 oz

· Milk Whip, 4 oz

· Playing Cards, 3 oz

· Aneroid Barometer, 3 oz

· Thermometer, 3 oz

· Wire Saw

· First Aid Extras, 16 oz

· Putty Knife, 2 oz

Brian UL
(MAYNARD76)

Locale: New England
Re: Totally Un-UL, Un Hi-tech list: on 06/09/2011 12:44:29 MDT Print View

Try an Egyptian cotton for a shelter over a canvas one. Egyptian is just a generic term for high thread count light cotton ( because the Egyptians where known back then for making the best). Supima is an American maker that is supposed to make high thread count cotton. You will have to buy bed sheets and sew them up the size you want. The thing to remember is that it will get wet but it should keep the rain off you.
There is also waterproof cotton called Ventile (Hilltrek/Westwinds $$!!), but I don't know how historical it is. It is possible that the weave was used back in the day but it is considered a modern invention.
Another thing to keep in mind is that in wet climates pack-baskets were preferred. They are far better in the rain as they do not soak up water and drain well. That is why they are also known as Adirondack style packs. Also you can make some thing like the Roycroft pack. Which is just a frame with straps that you can strap your stuff to.

David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
Re: Re: 1860's ultralight on 06/09/2011 13:03:13 MDT Print View

I was googling about and noticed that Tentsmiths makes an oilskin tarp

http://www.tentsmiths.com/tent-camp-accessories-oilskin-tarps.html

Maybe heavier than absolutely necessary seeing as they started with 6.5oz cotton?

You could probably get away with a lighter material for the shelter but for raingear I would guess 4 oz material might be pushing it.

And here is another oilskin recipe:

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/materials/maintaining-traditional-oil-skins-tin-cloth-2669.html

Mary D
(hikinggranny) - MLife

Locale: Gateway to Columbia River Gorge
Re: Re: Re: 1930's ultralight on 06/09/2011 13:40:11 MDT Print View

The tent my parents bought for their first backpacking trip in 1941 was Egyptian cotton with a wax coating--looked and felt like the paraffin you can still buy in the grocery store to seal jam and jelly. I believe that you can still find waxed cotton if you look hard! The 3-person tent weighed about 12 lbs. including stakes and pole. Unlike canvas (which starts leaking when you touch it on the inside), it was quite waterproof. That first tent lasted until 1962 (my husband and I were using it then) when most of a tree fell on it in a windstorm (fortunately not while we were inside!).

Sleeping bags were down with a waxed cotton outer shell.

The packs were, believe it or not, internal frame (except mine which was a canvas kids' pack). I know that one of the packs was a Bergen. Made out of heavy canvas. No hip belts in those days; my parents used tump lines. I remember my parents saying that my dad carried 70 lbs. and my mom 60. They wouldn't let me (age 6) carry more than 5. I had my wraps and the mess kit.

I remember the ponchos; my mother was still using hers to cook on the summer before she died. They were quite light rubberized cloth. Not as light as silnylon, but quite similar to urethane coating.

I need to haul out and scan some of those old photos, but no time for it now.

Mina Loomis
(elmvine) - MLife

Locale: Central Texas
light silk tent on 06/09/2011 13:53:08 MDT Print View

From somewhere (now I don't remember exactly, probably a link posted by someone on these boards?) I downloaded a pdf of Camping and Woodcraft by Horace Kephart, originally 1917, this appears to be a scan of a 1957 reprinting from some library.

On pp. 71-72 of this edition is a discussion of silk tents of pretty good volume:

"Featherweight Tent Materials. Pedestrian and cycle campers sometimes go in for the utmost possible lightness and compactness of outfit that will serve their purposes. For tents they use the most finely woven cotton, linen, or silk, not waterproofed, but depending upon extreme closeness of texture to shed rain. The cloth may " spray " a little in the first heavy downpour, but it will not leak so long as nothing rubs it from within.

"I have a sample of very close-woven silky cotton stuff from which a Puget Sound tent-maker turns out "A" tents complete of the following weights: 3 1/2 x 7 x 4 ft. high, 2 lbs.; 4 1/2 x 7 1/2 x 5 ft., 2 3/4 lbs.; 7 1/2 x 7 1/2 x 7 ft., 5 lbs.

"Lightest of all rain-proof materials, strongest for its weight, and, of course, most expensive, is silk. It can be woven more closely than any other textile and so needs no waterproofing (oiled silk, such as surgeons use, weighs more than "balloon silk"). Genuine silk is the toughest of all fibers ; but it does not stand much friction, hence should be reinforced at all friction surfaces, and rolled up when packed away, not folded in creases. It is unsuitable for any but special tents made for pedestrians. A London maker, T. H. Holding, sells a tentlette (If I may coin a term) of Japanese silk, in wedge shape, 6 X 5 X 4 ft. 6 in. high, that weighs under I2 ounces; and it is a practical little affair of its kind. Of one of these he reports: "It has stood some of the heaviest rains, in fact records for thirty hours at a stretch, without letting in wet, and I say this of an 11 oz. silk one.""

I suppose the weights the author gives are probably just the fabric not poles to hold it up.

Edited by elmvine on 06/09/2011 13:54:30 MDT.

James Winstead
(James_W) - M

Locale: CA
WWHD on 06/09/2011 14:16:11 MDT Print View

What would Hemingway do?

Or rather WWHHD What would hemingway heros do?

I agree, it seems that bringing a shelter was not nearly as much of a given then as it is today. Although, LNT rightly prevents the recreational creation of most bushcraft shelters.

In For Whom the Bell Tolls the hero sleeps outside most of the time in his bedroll. I assume this was some sort of semi-waterproofed down sleeping bag. Probably weighed a few pounds, and I wonder if he cared about condensation ;)

Edited by James_W on 06/09/2011 14:18:25 MDT.

Chas Ho
(i_charles) - F
The old timey ways are interesting but.. on 06/09/2011 15:56:13 MDT Print View

I think I will stick to reading about them. Although, sometime good ideas can come from old or "obsolete" techniques.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
scout fire on 06/23/2011 21:31:27 MDT Print View

if you want to go really light, but not overly comfy :)- you can use a technique that dates back pre-Revolutionary war, it's called a Scout fire (probably other names as well)- basically you have an outer layer (wool blanket, oil cloth, what have you) and lean up against a tree- you start a very small fire (need to dig a small hole) talking fist sized fire, the outer garment is wrapped around you and the small fire heats your the inside of your legs (femoral arteries and your core)- a beeswax candle would work as well and less chance of burning yourself up :)

they used this technique when in enemy territory to avoid detection, but remain alive through the night :)

Photobucket

I've been doing some overnighters w/ nothing more than bottle holder kit, but I've also been constructing shelters- lean-to w/ a long fire, debris shelters- I've not limited myself to "old time" gear though- I pack a heatsheet and some other modern bits

"light" (there is no light canvas) canvas tarps can be had in 8 and 10 oz material- waterproofing will add additional weight, but should be able to get a small (5x8') tarp in the 3-ish # range

Woolrich sells some nice 85% blankets, Pendleton sells some 100% virgin wool ones- they're pretty darn nice, the Western Mountaineering of wool blankets :)

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: scout fire on 06/23/2011 21:39:16 MDT Print View

Mike, in the diagram, where is the tree?

--B.G.--

David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
Flame Resistant Tarp Ideas? on 06/23/2011 23:31:49 MDT Print View

Scout fire -Not sure I am ready to attempt spending a night tending a small fire between my legs. Enemy fire may be required to instill the appropriate motivation.

I suspect the interest in the canvas tarp is not so much about nostalgia as compatibility with open fires? I've made a few light cotton tents waterproofed (sorta) with bee's wax for that purpose. Seems like the 9' x 12' tarp came in at about 4 lbs. They occasionally developed an annoying drip though. Makes me wonder if there might be a better fabric solution.

I wonder if silicone coated cotton would get ember holes. Wonder if my wife would notice a matching pillow case is missing. Might have to give it a try.

Ideas anybody?

BTW snowtrekker.com sells their 7.5 oz canvas off the roll in case you didn't already know.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Flame Resistant Tarp Ideas? on 06/24/2011 00:52:53 MDT Print View

Make your tarp/wrap out of Nomex.

--B.G.--

David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
Re: Re: Flame Resistant Tarp Ideas? on 06/24/2011 02:10:46 MDT Print View

hmmm, thanks Bob I see there is actually some promise of finding a light weight nomex fabric nowadays. I saw some at 4.5 oz. Now what might you coat it with if not silicone?

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Flame Resistant Tarp Ideas? on 06/24/2011 02:29:33 MDT Print View

Bear grease.

--B.G.--

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
scout fire on 06/24/2011 07:58:53 MDT Print View

Bob- tree would be at your back (leaning against it)- like I said, probably not the most comfy way to spend the night :)

a small to medium size beeswax candle would be better (read safer) than a fire

I've read one caution on the lighter canvas- that the weave can be pretty open (nice for breathability- not so nice for water resistance), some suggest washing it in hot first to shrink it (tightening the weave)

HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
Un-Hi-tech list for a mountain man on 06/24/2011 14:49:34 MDT Print View

Think for "lightweight" items, the military shelter half was standard. Military uniforms were cotton or wool; even modern military uniforms tend to have a high % of cotton. Anything prior to 1900 would be wool.

There's a group in new Mexico/far west TX that re-enacts the "Mountain Man" days from the mid 1800's complete with skills tests. Using hollowed gourds for water containers (talk about recycling), black powder guns, the whole works.

Not sure their authenticity runs to clothing choices, but that'd be of interest.

Edited by hknewman on 06/24/2011 14:53:31 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: scout fire on 06/24/2011 15:23:06 MDT Print View

"Bob- tree would be at your back (leaning against it)- like I said, probably not the most comfy way to spend the night :)"

The tree does not show up in the diagram. Is the tree within the tarp or outside of the tarp? If you are leaning against the tree, it is within the tarp.

--B.G.--

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
scout fire on 06/24/2011 16:53:57 MDT Print View

tarp/blanket/long coat/whatever your using would be against (not around) the tree- your basically sitting on your butt creating a "mini teepee" :)

I purchased one of the hooded sportsman blankets and a 72 hour beeswax candle (would be carrying a sit pad too) to throw in my hunting pack- I think it would an effective technique when the weather is cold and you don't have a lot of time to mess w/ a shelter, I plan to test that theory

HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
1920-30's .. Un-UL Un Hi-tech on 06/24/2011 17:22:34 MDT Print View

Does anyone recall the PBS series on camping? IIRC the documentary claimed one reason Henry Ford mass produced the auto in the 1920s was to get everybody out to enjoy Nature (or marketed it that way for the cynics). Many Model T's were outfitted with kitchens, bunks, and desks but more for carcamping/basecamping. During this time period, the choices for lugging around all this heavy fabric were rucksacks or Trapper John wood frame packs. Again iirc, only after WWII and the Korean War when Dick Kelty came out with the external frame did backpacking really start becoming established. Think during the Great Depression, the carcamping gear turned out to be emergency survival gear for some and during WWII/Korea, everyone was busy doing something else

Maybe looking at hunters of that time period would provide lighter, more mobile gear and clothing. Otherwise, maybe look at John Muir and early outings of the original Sierra Club to get some ideas of clothing and gear.

Edited by hknewman on 06/24/2011 17:30:11 MDT.

Josh Leavitt
(Joshleavitt) - F

Locale: Ruta Locura
UL but not High tech on 06/24/2011 19:00:08 MDT Print View

My eighty something year old grandfather recalls doing overnight "backpacking" trips in the '30s with just a fishing pole and a wool blanket.

james w glenn
(bark-eater) - F
Re: Bear grease on 06/24/2011 19:07:05 MDT Print View

First ya got to catch a bear.......

Edited by bark-eater on 06/24/2011 19:10:03 MDT.

Matthew Black
(mtblack)
Re: Totally Un-UL, Un Hi-tech list: on 06/24/2011 20:40:25 MDT Print View

I've recently stumbled on an old European rucksack that I purchased many years ago. It is made from canvas, steel, brass and leather. There is some oxidation due to exposure and the leather needs oil but it is overall in good shape and is about 2000cc, including pockets. I would rather someone get some good use out of it than send it to Goodwill and have it languish until it ends up in a landfill. I would be willing to send it for your experiments at no charge for the pack or shipping. Please send a PM if interested.

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
Oilcloth on 06/24/2011 23:20:59 MDT Print View

I'm not sure why you say this:

"oil cloth (which is difficult to come by unless I make it)"

I think there are several manufacturers making oilcloth outer garments. Usually they are "western" style outfitters, such as Filson. http://www.filson.com/mens/coats-jackets/-1011/ I own a Filson oilcloth jacket, and I love it. They tend to be expensive as hell, though. Stetson makes such clothes, too, don't they? Look in western supply stores for drover's coats- I think you can easily find an oilcloth one. (I have one of those, too.) Here's one I found: http://www.westernsaddle.com/oilskindrover.html

If you're really going for atmosphere I don't think it gets any better than a cowboy's slicker...

Edited by acrosome on 06/24/2011 23:25:32 MDT.

Andy F
(AndyF) - M
Re: Totally Un-UL, Un Hi-tech list: on 06/25/2011 09:37:59 MDT Print View

Pack
Look at European military surplus, especially Swedish.

Shelter
This site has some ideas/products:
http://nwwoodsman.com/index.html

Sleeping
Italian military wool blanket, 5 lbs! I have one. 100% wool (ok, supposedly), so great for around a fire. These have a strong mothball smell and need to be aired out for days outside.

http://www.youtube.com/user/nwwoodsman#p/u/1/Gx38go8-Ig8

Water treatment: Don't treat, or boil

Fire: Matches for backup, firesteel for regular use, bowdrill for fun and practice and maybe sometimes actually starting a fire :)

John L Collins
(WVCubDad) - MLife

Locale: Not too far off the Tuscarora Trail
1920's and 1930's Scout Handbooks on 06/26/2011 10:58:30 MDT Print View

Some of the earlier versions of the Boy Scout Handbooks have suggestions for making gear, everything from toilet kit rolls to packs, buckets and food bags. The soldiers that fought in WWII were Scouts in the 30's. You can find these on eBay for decent prices. Also the corresponding Patrol Leader's Handbooks have additional instructions.

Jeffrey Kuchera
(frankenfeet)

Locale: Great Lakes
+ 1 on Camping and Woodcraft by Horace Kephart on 06/26/2011 11:41:53 MDT Print View

This book has been mentioned in this thread already. I think it contains an abundance of information that will help you meet your goal.

Ted E
(Mtn_nut) - MLife

Locale: Morrison, CO
Neptune mountaineering on 06/26/2011 14:14:11 MDT Print View

Neptune mountaineering has a mountaineering museum and it covers a wide range of "gear evolution"

http://www.neptunemountaineering.com/neptune/dept.asp?s_id=0&dept_id=500

it might be helpful to contact them with specific questions.

Rob Vandiver
(ShortBus) - M

Locale: So Cal
Re: Totally Un-UL, Un Hi-tech list: on 06/27/2011 12:42:59 MDT Print View

Hey Craig,
Ran across this a while ago, and thought it was fascinating. It's a 1907 catalog for Abercrombie and Fitch. Apparantly they did,t always sell clothing for preppy hipsters.

http://books.google.com/books?id=LeM-AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

I was impressed by the gear, honestly. Things like alky stoves, bivys, aluminum cookware. This, I think, would have been extreme high end, looking at the prices, but it is worth a glance.

I also liked all the instructional tidbits. In the cooking section it suggested covering a bird or fish in a couple of inches of natural clay and thowing it on the fire for an hour until the clay was fully cured, breaking it open, and chowing it down. This should appeal to you on all sorts of levels. You could even try to do it with just your feet.

Adan Lopez
(Lopez) - F

Locale: San Gabriel Valley
Cooking fish with your feet on 06/27/2011 13:12:46 MDT Print View

Funny stuff Rob!