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Vlad Putin
(Primaloft37)

Locale: Radio Free Pineland
Re: Pro-wool not anti-wool? on 12/06/2006 12:56:10 MST Print View

If you don't need numbers you migth as well leave now, as the goal of UL backpackers is to find the "best and lightest" gear for the job. It is sort of hard to determine the lightest without numbers. No studies are required, just a scale.
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Oh you mean THOSE kinds of numbers? I have no idea. I already admitted that wool is a lot heavier than synthetics or down, but the heavier weight is negated by its unique properties of keeping you warm while wet or damp, the lack of need for a soft shell while wearing traditional wool clothes, the "no stink" factor of traditional wool outdoor clothes and other factors already discussed in this and other recent threads.


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If all you are after is the best regardless of weight, this isn't the place. As we'd just carry propane heaters with us and sit around camp in our "wife beaters and cut-offs".
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I do not advocate car camping nor carrying around propane heaters. You are missing my point(s), Tony.




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It has long been common knowledge that wool layers are "da bomb" with regards to keeping warm in the winter. Particularly in cold/wet or cold/damp environments.
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OK, I'm willing to help you convince folks that wool is "da bomb" as to-date your arguments have been woefully weak.

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How so, Tony? Please detail how my arguments have been "weak?"
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If fact, I'm not sure you have said anything besides "wool is great, you folks are idiots". Which isn't the most convincing argument.

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Really? Ive given a ton of facts on here why wool is superior for cold weather backpacking, particularly in cold/wet or cold/damp environments. Have you been reading all the recent wool threads, Tony?
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If you have no interest in spreading the wool light (sorry), then this thread is more of a trolling experiment than a discussion and should be stopped immediately.
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I could turn that around on you and say all this talk about synthetics and goose down being superior for cold weather backpacking is a gigantic line of bs for the naiive and uninitiated.
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I have re-read your posts and it sounds like you want UL backpackers to consider using wool as a insulating layer in lieu of high-loft insulators such as Primaloft, Polarguard and down. Correct?
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Reread again dude. Whats in my name? PRIMALOFT! I have specifically stated I use a combination of wool and synthetics. I am a great fan of Primaloft...I think the stuff is great. I also like polypropylene for long underwear. I own two Primaloft parkas and use both of them in cold weather.

I do not like fleece however and I do not like "soft shells." Soft shells are not even necessary if you are using wool clothing.
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This site alreay is pro-wool for base layer, so you don't need to "sell" that concept.
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You are one dimensional and coming from a very recent time in history, Tony. But do not realize it.
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Furthermore, it appears that you are only talking about winter conditions?

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Of course! You think I would be caught dead wearing wool layers in three season or SUMMER backpacking? LOL

That I have been discussing wool for cold weather backpacking has been hammered into the ground here. I do not advocate wool clothing for summer backpacking (although a wool shirt and possibly wool pants might not be a bad idea if you are doing summertime backpacking on the AT, where it is windy and rains a lot).
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Though we need to define winter. Do you mean 25F-45F wet snow and/or rain winter, or sub-25F dry snow conditions?
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Define winter, Tony? Um, only for you dude. How about winter is from December 21 thru what? That date in March when spring begins?
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Also, is this wool garment used while being active (hiking, snowshoeing, skiing, etc.) or used at breaks and in-camp?
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<shaking head> You dont know what its about, Tony. With wool, you use it it for both...activity and for breaks and camp.

Where did you learn your core knowledge at? Big Joke University?

Did you know you can make a SUL bivvy out of a space blanket and a sheet?

LMAO

Vlad

Russell Swanson
(rswanson) - F

Locale: Midatlantic
Re: Re: Pro-wool not anti-wool? on 12/06/2006 13:25:35 MST Print View

Lets please have some restraint and let this bickerfest of a thread die a quiet death.

Tony Burnett
(tlbj6142) - F

Locale: OH--IO
Pro-wool not anti-wool? on 12/06/2006 13:36:17 MST Print View

Really? Ive given a ton of facts on here why wool is superior for cold weather backpacking, particularly in cold/wet or cold/damp environments. Have you been reading all the recent wool threads
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I've only read this thread. If you have a facted base thread elsewhere, please point me to it. All I see in this thread is "wool is great, you are idiot, and warm when wet".

So the only fact(?) is "warm when wet" the rest is is hearsay and opinons.

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Reread again dude. Whats in my name? PRIMALOFT! I have specifically stated I use a combination of wool and synthetics. I am a great fan of Primaloft...I think the stuff is great. I also like polypropylene for long underwear. I own two Primaloft parkas and use both of them in cold weather.
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So, your argument is only with down?

Most would agree that a down used in wet winter conditions isn't such a good idea. Espeically for longer trips (3+ days).


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I do not like fleece however and I do not like "soft shells." Soft shells are not even necessary if you are using wool clothing.
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OK, now we are getting somewhere, you have issues with softshells. Well, that's is easy to understand. As wool, used correctly, is bascially a softshell by most definitions. Most would agree that softshells are worthless as activewear in warm weather (25F+). Now if you are sitting around camp, or casually skiing down the slops, softshells aren't so bad. Or if the temps drop quite a bit, say sub-20F and there is a bit of wind, softshells aren't so bad.

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Of course! You think I would be caught dead wearing wool layers in three season or SUMMER backpacking? LOL
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Actually, I wear my wool socks and wool base layers year round. Mostly for the stink factor. My body seems to have an aversion to poly.

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Oh you mean THOSE kinds of numbers? I have no idea. I already admitted that wool is a lot heavier than synthetics or down, but the heavier weight is negated by its unique properties of keeping you warm while wet or damp, the lack of need for a soft shell while wearing traditional wool clothes, the "no stink" factor of traditional wool outdoor clothes and other factors already discussed in this and other recent threads.
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On this site, those numbers are quite important. And many folks disagree that something what weights 50+% more is "worth the weight". For the other benefits.

Frankly, the "warm when wet" issue is quite minor. How often do you get "wet", really "soaked" in winter?

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Define winter, Tony? Um, only for you dude. How about winter is from December 21 thru what? That date in March when spring begins?
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Now you are just being difficult. We all know there is a big difference between hiking in 25F-40F "winter" versus a sub-20F winter.
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With wool, you use it it for both...activity and for breaks and camp.
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The same garment for both? Or two different pieces?

Edited by tlbj6142 on 12/06/2006 13:46:59 MST.