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C King
(rimmini) - F
Please Shred this on 05/26/2011 19:53:03 MDT Print View

Still trying to get my full pack weight ( 4 season) down to 25 or less. Although I started with a 50# pack and have pared it down to 24# Base 36# Full. I am at the point now where the only way I can drop weight is to replace items. So please DON'T BE KIND. Shred this to help me break the 20# barrier

Smiths Sharpener 0.9
Buck Bantum lock back 2.3
TP 0.6
compass 1.3
Biner 2.6
50 Foot rope 6.8
FAK 1#8.3
Repair kit 1#15.10
Batts 3AAA 1.3 X 2
Needles and thread 0.4
Fishing line 0.7
Perchlorate tabs .025 X 8
pins safety and straight 0.5

Head lamp 4.3
repellant 1#4.2 (poured into bayer bottle and inserted a stonge to make an applicator not weighed in this config)
Gaiters 7.6
Rain jacket 1#0.7

(Worn not counted in base)
rayon shirt 8.8
pant shorts 9.7

Clothing in S2S compression dry sack (brick)
Smart wool socks 2.8
red head heavy wool socks 5.1
briefs 3.1 x2
Long John shirt 7.2
Long john pant 7.8
Fleece Jacket 15.4
Fleece Pant 1#1.3

Tarp 10ft diamond fly 1#0.7
Hammock 1# 3.3
Sleeping bag synth. 4# 11.3 (winter bag is 6#) (Saving for down winter bag will bring this between 3# and 4.5#)
fire steel 0.9
stove pipe wind screen 1.2
Haululite minimalist 5.5

Kelty Coyote 65 liter. 4 #

Full Includes

4# Food
3 24 FLOZ twisttop soda cans (water
2 16 FLOZ Soda bottles (Alchy fuel)

Thanks in advance.

Steven Paris
(saparisor) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Please Shred this on 05/26/2011 21:26:45 MDT Print View

To start with, you mention this as a "4-season" list but there is no reason to carry gear for 4-seasons if you really only need "3-season" gear. Start with a solid 3-season list; only add in winter gear as needed in winter.

It will also be helpful if you specify where you live and/or hike; a lot of people here will have specific gear advice based on what they have successfully used in various terrains/conditions. Read, read, read books and on this site -- if others have used lighter gear in situations that you hike in, than you can too. Buy a scale and weigh literally everything that goes on your trip; you can often lose pounds just by taking the lightest items you already have.

Smiths Sharpener
50' Rope
Repair Kit
Pins safety and straight
Heavy wool socks
Fleece pants

FAK is too heavy; there are a lot of discussions here on BPL where you can glean info and decide what you personally should take on a specific trip.

Fleece Jacket
Baselayers (what you call Long Johns)
Sleeping Bag
Rain Jacket

Start with the first three b/c there are options (like a 100-wt fleece top and maybe a down vest for the fleece jacket) that won't be that expensive. Then the sleeping bag, which could be expensive but I'll bet folks here have some good options for at least getting to around 2 lbs or so. Then new shell layers. Last, a new pack, after you see how much more compact and lighter your gear has become!

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Re: Please Shred this on 05/26/2011 21:38:58 MDT Print View

Wow. OK here goes.
Leave the sharpener at home.
You can get by with a lighter knife, if you even really need one at all.
What are the biners for? NIX
What's the rope for? NIX
Many here get along fine with a FAK less than 4 oz.
Repair kit. Take some duct tape, leave the rest behind.
Batteries for what?
Needle and thread. Easily nixed
Fishing line, NIX
Pins. Take one safety pin. NIX the rest.
Replace headlamp.
Much lighter options for bug spray. Mine weighs 1.5 oz
Get some dirty girl gaiters if you really need them. I hardly use them.
Get lighter rain wear.
Too much clothes. Especially socks. Wearing boots I suspect. Get some sneakers.
Get a lighter silnylon tarp. You don't need so much coverage.
You'll save a bunch of room in your pack and weight when you switch out to a down bag.
Lighter firesteel choices out there.
Lighter foil windscreen
Get a pack last and you easily can cut 2 or more pounds off this one item alone.
Why so much water containers?
Why so much fuel. How long are you staying out for?
Check this thread...

Look at other gear lists posted on this site.

Lance Marshall
(Lancem) - F - MLife

Locale: Oregon
Re: Please Shred this on 05/26/2011 22:40:07 MDT Print View

Start by reorganizing your gear list. The one you have provided is pretty lacking. Use categories. Break out all individual items. For instance: list all stuff sacks/bags separately from what goes in them, list stakes separately from your shelter, list your spoon separately. Be truthful with yourself and include EVERYTHING.

Possible missing items or need to list separately:

Pack liner or pack cover.
Sack for kitchen items.
Sack for misc items even if its just a ziplock.
Food sack.

Sleeping pad

Sun hat
Warm hat
Rain pants/skirt
Socks worn


Here is one possible revised gear list:
c king gear list

Hope this helps

Edited by Lancem on 05/26/2011 22:40:50 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Re: Please Shred this. Gold star for Lance! on 05/26/2011 22:55:11 MDT Print View

Lance. Your reply makes mine look so inadequate. Got to love the spreadsheet guys. I'm old school. Mine's on paper.

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
+1 on 05/27/2011 05:38:24 MDT Print View

Actually, if you remove the 4 lbs for food are you already at less than 20 lbs base pack weight? Since the amount of consumables such as food and water often varies, most of us report pack weights without them- this is called "base pack weight". The conventional definitions are then:

>20 lbs heavyweight backpacking
<20 lbs lightweight backpacking
<10 lbs ultralight backpacking
<5 lbs is a survival exercise rather than camping, but there is a lunatic fringe that does it. They try to legitimize this by calling it "superultralight." :)

I have to admit, it would be nice to know what you're doing and where you are doing it. For instance if you're mountaineering or canyoneering then you might need the rope and biner- otherwise probably not. Short of those uses there isn't anything you'll need that parachute cord won't handle, and parachute cord is a HEAVY solution by our standards. Look at the guyline and bear-bag kits here in the BPL shop for ideas.

Most people post a 3-season gear list separate from their winter list- they tend to differ considerably. (Many would argue that a 4-season list is essentially impossible north of Mexico, thus the difference between a 3-season list and a winter list.)

As a 3-season list, yes, trust us, we can shred this... :)

Unless you are going to be gone for months, lose the sharpener.

There are those who would argue against taking a knife at all and just making due with the scissors from a Victorinox knife. (Just the scissors, mind you, not the whole knife.) But some people simply like their knives, so if you're one of those people 2.3oz ain't too horrible. But check out the Baladeo knives here in the gear shop on BPL for one example of a lighter knife.

There are many compasses available for well under 1 oz. Most are simple baseplate compasses without a lid or mirror, but you do NOT need a mirror for 99.9999% of the orienteering in North America.

Unless you are doing very long trips to the Alaskan bush you can make do with a much lighter FAK and repair kit. There are many discussions regarding them on this forum- I will not repeat them here. Many items in them can do double-duty, such as the tape, etc. Also, I would have thought that needle & thread would be included in the repair kit. Usually, if you really want to be able to sew an emergency repair you can just take a single needle with a large eye and use your dental floss as thread. (Assuming that you carry floss.)

If the fishing line is for "survival" purposes, I would just ask you how often you have needed it in the past. If your answer is >1 you should probably reconsider your hobbies. Leave it behind, unless fishing is simply something you enjoy in the backcountry. (In which case, check out Tenkara rods.) Also, you can starve for over 10 days without much physiologic effect beyond fatigue and reduced cold tolerance. Having water in an emergency is much more serious.

Safety pins could also be included in your repair kit weight.

Much lighter light sources are available, though for a headlamp I don't think 4.3 oz is THAT bad. But, really, how often do you use a light? Most people might use it to avoid stepping off a cliff during nocturnal potty breaks, but that's it. Most people here use a little LED light such as a Photon Freedom. They can be stuck to your hat brim with velcro to act like a headlight if needed. Alternatively, Fenix makes several very small AAA lights with clips that can be used to mount them to a hat brim. It is unlikely that you'd need spare batteries unless you are gone for months. I have a Fenix because I decided to standardize all of my (very limited) electronics to using AAA batteries, so that I could swap them around in emergencies. But I also have a Photon Freedom for shorter hikes.

You can decant any of your liquids (repellent, sunscreen, tobasco, water treatment, liquid soap, hand sanitizer, etc) into smaller containers. Small dropper bottles are sold here on BPL in the gear shop, but there are many others who sell them. Or you can re-use eyedrop bottles.

11 oz for a rain jacket isn't bad. You can get a reasonably durable one for 7 oz though. GoLite makes one. Fringe rain jackets can be less than 5 oz, but the tradeoff is that they're fragile.

The conventional wisdom here on BPL is that fleece is heavy and doesn't compress well. However, it does tend to be cheap, which is also a nice quality in hiking gear. If you want light, though, get high-loft insulation for your insulation later- either down or a high-loft synthetic.

If you're a hammock guy I think that there are lighter options. I think the standard Hennesey Asym is 44oz INCLUDING the tarp, and they make much lighter ones. Also check out Warbonnet. (But take this with a grain of salt- I'm not up on the state of the art in hammocks.) What kind of stakes are you using, and what do they weigh?

But you could drop POUNDS just by sleeping on the ground under that tarp.

4 lbs for a 3-season sleeping bag is pretty horrible by our standards. Actually, you can do much better than the 3 lbs that you aspire to, for that matter. We can gladly give you all sorts of fanatical fringe solutions, but if you want to stay mainstream look at the Marmot Hydrogen/Helium/Lithium line. The Kelty Cosmic Down 20 was also reviewed on BPL recently and is incredibly affordable for a bag of it's performance- about $100 IIRC. For a winter bag that is cheaper (but also rather heavier than most here will accept) the Marmot Neversummer ain't bad.

What sort of sleeping pad do you use, and what does it weigh? If you don't use one you'll probably want to get one. That'll let you carry a lighter sleeping bag since you won't be losing as much heat to conduction or convection underneath you. (The sleeping bag insulation that you lay on gets compressed and thus doesn't offer any benefit, so you usually need a pad under you or an underquilt under a hammock in any but the warmest weather.)

Why a firesteel? Will a Mini-Bic do? But if you're a firesteel afficionado then despite what others have said 0.9 oz ain't bad. The miniature one sold here on BPL is 0.81 oz.

There are much lighter packs. Personally, I like almost everything MLD sells, including their packs. An MLD Burn is 10-11 oz, but they make some bigger packs, too.

How long is 4 lbs of food supposed to last you? For 3 season most of us use around 1.5 lbs/day (with a range of about 1.2 lbs/day to 2.0 lbs/day).

2L is probably an appropriate amount of water- but water is heavy, 2.2 lbs per liter. If you're back east you could easily carry only 1L and restock as you encounter sources.

Was that brutal enough? I can be much more harsh if you prefer.

Edited by acrosome on 05/27/2011 05:46:12 MDT.

C King
(rimmini) - F
Thanks Lance Puts things in perspective on 05/27/2011 05:45:47 MDT Print View

That list helps a lot. There are a few items I left out now that I look at it MY UQ for example. And when I reduce my Sleeping back I think the weight will stay the same ( Replacement will be -20 down bag) I like winter camping what can I say. Even with the add ins your list comes out to less than my target.

Funny note on the stakes. I forgot them at home during my last solo and used clovehitches and dead fall to stake my fly out. Worked so well I exiled the stakes to save the weight.

Rope is for making an anchor point for the hammock/UQ but also serves as my ridgeline. (I am going to replace this with 2 web slings and P.Chord)

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
AHA! on 05/27/2011 05:53:22 MDT Print View

Aha! So you do use an under-quilt and this is specifically a winter list? Unfortunately, winter equipment is rather highly variable depending upon the exact conditions. There's "winter", and then there's WINTER. :)

I had to look up the Halulite Minimalist. 5.5 oz for a compressed gas stove, 0.6L pot, pot gripper, pot cozy, and spork is pretty darn good, if that weight is accurate. FWIW both GSI and REI list it at 6.3 oz, though.

Edited by acrosome on 05/27/2011 06:04:03 MDT.

C King
(rimmini) - F
This is a four season pack on 05/27/2011 13:15:42 MDT Print View

Specifically winter? No. Specifically Dry Camp? No. The cooking is for two... until my daughter is older and I can shed weight on to HER back...( Yeah Evil dad lol)

This may be a bit "traditional" so far as the audience goes but the way I figure it, it is easier to get a 4 season pack down to 25 pounds...or lower... and then pull items that may not be needed for the season I am packing in. I wouldn't take much fleece if any for a summer hike in the south. I can take a sheet and UQ from now til fall and eliminate the need for a bag this season for around here in PA. But I wouldn't consider a move like that in September. Well thats my perspective any way.
This post did give me the insight to drop another 4 pounds ( Shred this part 2)from my base without any mods to the gear. Replacing with a lighter big four has to come with time but it'll get there.